for all you conspiracy theorists

[Just Jack]

I can get behind this theory. Here's some examples in sports:

 

Football: Cheatriots, Steelers Superbowl on Bettis' big stage and boning Holmgren, Saints after Katrina, Pats after 9/11, Pats SB against the Eagles when McNabb was "huffing and puffing" with just a few minutes left in the biggest game of his life, Pats even making thier first SB after tuck rule, Music City Miracle, etc...

Both teams in SB25 during the first Iraq war had red, white and blue uniforms

 

 

AutoRacing: I don't know enough but someone before brought up Dale JR winning the big race a year after his fathers dead. Cmon. The guy sucks and hasn't won squat before or since. He's the Sanchez of NASCAR. Good enough to steal some face time, but not even close to the good racers. Let's not even get into Jimmy Johnson winning like 6 straight championships.

NASCAR changed the way the championship could be won because of the way Matt Kenseth won it back in 2003 to give their "favored" drivers a better chance.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I can get behind this theory. Here's some examples in sports:

 

Football: Cheatriots, Steelers Superbowl on Bettis' big stage and boning Holmgren, Saints after Katrina, Pats after 9/11, Pats SB against the Eagles when McNabb was "huffing and puffing" with just a few minutes left in the biggest game of his life, Pats even making thier first SB after tuck rule, Music City Miracle, etc...

 

Hockey: I don't follow much but it's not even arguable when you talk about Hull in the crease. I'm sure there are others.

 

Basketball: Ewing draft, Jordan retirement in his prime both on the court and his gambling career, Multiple lottery picks, Lebron James both going to and leaving Cleveland, Bosh going to Miami with Lebron and Wade, Howard trade being turned down, Cleveland getting another Lottery pick, Rose a hometown Chicago boy, Melow and the Knicks along with other pickups to NY.

 

Baseball: do I really need to bring up that Baseball as a while completely allowed and probably encouraged steroids to bring up fhe home run totals so they could revive the league. It's a shame that now baseball is turning a shoulder to those same players. Sosa, McGuire if he didn't retire, Bonds, Clemmons. Bonds was a GREAT player even before the roids. He probably won't make the HOF now and that's a shame.

 

AutoRacing: I don't know enough but someone before brought up Dale JR winning the big race a year after his fathers dead. Cmon. The guy sucks and hasn't won squat before or since. He's the Sanchez of NASCAR. Good enough to steal some face time, but not even close to the good racers. Let's not even get into Jimmy Johnson winning like 6 straight championships.

 

Boxing: good lord, this isn't even in existance anymore but there is no other sport or competition where a fix can be made so easily. Even as losers these guys were making millions and millions. They can make up the difference in taking a fall and betting against themselves by not winning.

 

Olympics: Ben Johnson, Flo-Jo, Phelps, Carl Lewis, Michael Johnson, etc...

I dont know about anyting else but competitive frisbee, curling is getting out of control.

 

There's a saying I like. "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen and the NBA lottery process (both during the season and the off-season) is so prone to fixing that I can buy the 1985 Theory. However - the Hull thing? Steroids in baseball? Music City Miracle? Those are incompetence.

 

Specifically to the steroids issue...if these players were taking drugs as agents of Major League Baseball, wouldn't one of the guys have thrown MLB under the bus by now? If not for revenge, then to salvage a reputation?

[KD in CA]

It's interesting that you pick the Stillers for the biased officiating and then give the Cheats* a pass on Spygate, when it's been the Pats* who've benefitted by far the most from poor officiating over the last decade or so, to the point where it's not even close....

 

Not sure how you possibly interpreted my post as a "pass" on Spygate; they were guilty, caught and punished. I just don't see any conspiracy there. Do you really think the NFL knew and allowed the Pats to tape opponents for years and only reversed course when the Jets blew the whistle? That's a little far fetched. Not disclosing all the details to avoid further league embarrassment is not the same thing as a conspiracy.

 

As for biased officiating, despite the endless whining of Bills fans I have never seen a game officiated as one sided in favor of the Pats as was SB 40 in favor of Pittsburgh. The only one that's even close might be the playoff game in Foxboro where the Pats were allowed to mug the Colts WRs all day, but even that game had more to do with a muddy field slowing down Indy.

 

 

 

p.s. there are a lot of people confusing a bad or questionable call with a 'conspiracy'. The NFL really had a vested interested in the Titans advancing in the playoffs over the Bills? And the refs waited till the last 8 seconds to implement the grand scheme (instead of maybe calling holding on the Bills to kill their last drive for the FG)? Likewise, they waited for double overtime before letting Brett Hull's no-goal steal the Cup? C'mon.

Edited June 14, 2012 by KD in CT

[mrags]

There's a saying I like. "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen and the NBA lottery process (both during the season and the off-season) is so prone to fixing that I can buy the 1985 Theory. However - the Hull thing? Steroids in baseball? Music City Miracle? Those are incompetence.

 

Specifically to the steroids issue...if these players were taking drugs as agents of Major League Baseball, wouldn't one of the guys have thrown MLB under the bus by now? If not for revenge, then to salvage a reputation?

NO

[KD in CA]

The Magic to the Lakers and Bird to the Celtics thing weren't really shady. Not sure where that comes from. Bird was drafted, by the Celtics in 1978, with the 6th pick in the draft. He still had a year of college hoops eligibility, which he exorcised. The Celtics were really bad (32-50), and took a gamble, using their first pick, on a guy that wasn't going to play for them, for another year. Just a smart move on their part. They knew it was a high risk, high reward thing, and it paid off. As Red Aurbach said at the time, he knew Bird was draft eligible, and didn't think there was anyone in the draft that year that would help his team more than Bird would in another year.

 

As for Magic Johnson, the New Orleans Jazz signed Gail Goodrich as a free agent, from the Lakers, in 1977. As compensation, pre-agreed upon the Jazz agreed to give up their first round pick in the 1979 draft...as luck had it, they finished with what would have been the first pick in the draft...as they finished with the worst record in the NBA. That pick was, Magic Johnson. Remember, this was before the NBA started the lottery...that didn't happen until 1985.

 

As for Jordan and Ewing, remember, the Houston Rockets and Portland Trailblazers had a chance to take Jordan, and passed. Nobody could have predicted that Jordan, who was kind of a late bloomer, would be as good as he was.

 

As for Ewing to the Knicks...I dunno...if Stern and company have gone out of their way to make so many things happen, as it is alleged, and they made sure that Ewing went to the Knicks, why not assure that he won a ring somewhere along the way?

 

It's just very convenient that in an era when the NBA was really down, you had the two big college stars end up on the two most storied franchises; the white guy in Boston and the black guy in LA. Result: Huge surge in league popularity and financial fortune for the league as a whole. Maybe that's coincidence, but it sure worked out for everyone.

 

As for Ewing, the point was to get the biggest star in the biggest market and the media capital. He didn't need to win a ring for the NBA to be able to leverage him into a bigger TV deal and turn MSG into a sellout every night (and he would have won his title if John Starks could have shot better than my mother in Game 7 that one year).

[section122]

Not sure how you possibly interpreted my post as a "pass" on Spygate; they were guilty, caught and punished. I just don't see any conspiracy there. Do you really think the NFL knew and allowed the Pats to tape opponents for years and only reversed course when the Jets blew the whistle? That's a little far fetched. Not disclosing all the details to avoid further league embarrassment is not the same thing as a conspiracy.

 

As for biased officiating, despite the endless whining of Bills fans I have never seen a game officiated as one sided in favor of the Pats as was SB 40 in favor of Pittsburgh. The only one that's even close might be the playoff game in Foxboro where the Pats were allowed to mug the Colts WRs all day, but even that game had more to do with a muddy field slowing down Indy.

 

 

 

p.s. there are a lot of people confusing a bad or questionable call with a 'conspiracy'. The NFL really had a vested interested in the Titans advancing in the playoffs over the Bills? And the refs waited till the last 8 seconds to implement the grand scheme (instead of maybe calling holding on the Bills to kill their last drive for the FG)? Likewise, they waited for double overtime before letting Brett Hull's no-goal steal the Cup? C'mon.

My thinking is that all games aren't rigged but that there are desired outcomes by the league. Certain games at certain times imo are pushed towards an outcome. If it happens the league is happy if it doesn't they missed an opportunity. I think this would be easily achieved simply by having a few calls go one way or the other. I'm not saying that this is the case in either of the games you mentioned (as I agree with your point) just my feeling that this is how "fixing" is or could be done. I think the risk is to great to make anything happen every time exactly how the league would want it and much easier to conceal if outcomes are guided and the result is achieved routinely but not every time.

I ref soccer currently and have reffed basketball in the past. It amazes me how momentum can be swung by one call as well as outcomes of entire games depending on timing and egregiousness of a call.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

My thinking is that all games aren't rigged but that there are desired outcomes by the league. Certain games at certain times imo are pushed towards an outcome. If it happens the league is happy if it doesn't they missed an opportunity. I think this would be easily achieved simply by having a few calls go one way or the other. I'm not saying that this is the case in either of the games you mentioned (as I agree with your point) just my feeling that this is how "fixing" is or could be done. I think the risk is to great to make anything happen every time exactly how the league would want it and much easier to conceal if outcomes are guided and the result is achieved routinely but not every time.

I ref soccer currently and have reffed basketball in the past. It amazes me how momentum can be swung by one call as well as outcomes of entire games depending on timing and egregiousness of a call.

 

My question then is - Is every referee/umpire on board with the fixing? Do the leagues hold secret meetings or teleconferences to tell the refs which teams need to win? Why hasn't one official come forward and said "Yo, the commissioner is handing down bribes"? They'd certainly make more money from their tell-all book than from reffing.

[section122]

My question then is - Is every referee/umpire on board with the fixing? Do the leagues hold secret meetings or teleconferences to tell the refs which teams need to win? Why hasn't one official come forward and said "Yo, the commissioner is handing down bribes"? They'd certainly make more money from their tell-all book than from reffing.

No not every ref/umpire would need to be in it just a select few. A select few that are loyal to the brand and maybe even receiving extra payment. One ump or ref in a crew could very easily make the difference needed to swing a game. As for writing a book, they would be admitting to cheating as well as breaking the law. So not only would they be disgraced but they would end up in jail. Then the league would say there were rogue and the league had no knowledge of this happening (see Tim Donaghey sp?). I encourage you to read the original article that I linked. It is well written without being accusatory or too far out there and also just a plain old good read.

 

I want to be clear though that I don't believe all games and leagues are fixed just that if they were this is how I would/could see it happening, and it wouldn't apply to all games just one's that mattered if it were indeed happening. I don't think the NFL cares about a Bills-Browns game but I could see them caring about a Pats-Bills game if playoff births were involved (ahem*just give it to them*ahem).

Edited June 14, 2012 by section122

[mrags]

My thinking is that all games aren't rigged but that there are desired outcomes by the league. Certain games at certain times imo are pushed towards an outcome. If it happens the league is happy if it doesn't they missed an opportunity. I think this would be easily achieved simply by having a few calls go one way or the other. I'm not saying that this is the case in either of the games you mentioned (as I agree with your point) just my feeling that this is how "fixing" is or could be done. I think the risk is to great to make anything happen every time exactly how the league would want it and much easier to conceal if outcomes are guided and the result is achieved routinely but not every time.

I ref soccer currently and have reffed basketball in the past. It amazes me how momentum can be swung by one call as well as outcomes of entire games depending on timing and egregiousness of a call.

To your point about how all the leagues would want certain outcomes but if things go a different way it's only a missed oportunity:

They surely want certain teams to succeed. Big money, big market teams to better and are granted more leniency. Examples made by Snyder, Jones, Etc. If this wasn't the case why is there a huge debate and a bunch of scared people when talking about LA wanting a team and Buff, Jax, Min, Cle, Stl always in the conversation of teams possible to make that move?

 

As to the other points by another poster regarding My previous examples of fixed games/moments in history. Similar to 122's take I don't think it's a guarantee that certain plays or games were fixed but that doesn't mean it's just bad officiating. A call get made and it's clearly obvious that it was a bad call, the ref usually gets fined or some sort of punishment, by missing playoffs and extra paychecks usually. But that doesn't mean the league doesn't do it's best to cover it up. Heck, hockey even has all official review by some closed room of "officials" who are in Toronto, not even in the game for christs sake. The NFL has a black draped cloth over a booth that only one ref can see and has a headset on while he's doing it. Some calls are clearly bad. That doesn't mean it's not a screwup by the ref but the NFL usually doesn't go talking about it publicly, only in certain situations.oat of the time it's a subject not brought up. That to me is a cover up. Are we to believe that the Spygate scandal was only what was brought to the publics eye? Chances are most of the teams were doing similar things. Bountygate? Many former players have come out and said they have done similar things. Ex- Chris Carter offering money to keep other players away from him on the field. The steroid policy in the NFL is a don't ask don't tell situation. Just like MLB, the NFL knows it goes on, they have simple enough tests to fake or work around in certain ways so that thier "star" players continue to make them money. It's not that the leagues approve of it, but as long as they don't see it happening and it's not in the public do you really think they care? If they did, they would test everyone in a consistant basis.

Bad officiating is the same thing. Just because it's not backed by the NFL doesn't mean they don't try and hide it. That's a conspiracy.

[NoSaint]

As someone else mentioned - I think we neglect how many outcomes could be claimed "rigged"

 

Sure the patriots after 9/11 was a cool storyline for the nfl but so would have been either NY team, the redskins, or even Americas team! Suddenly your up to about a 1/6 chance of conspiracy just off the top of my head and on a single storyline

[RyanC883]

My question then is - Is every referee/umpire on board with the fixing? Do the leagues hold secret meetings or teleconferences to tell the refs which teams need to win? Why hasn't one official come forward and said "Yo, the commissioner is handing down bribes"? They'd certainly make more money from their tell-all book than from reffing.

 

Exactly. Everyone thinks there is a conspiracy here or there, but these conspiracies would involve MANY people. Someone would have talked. Also, if there were to be a conspiracy, why did Arizona beat the Yankees in the World Series after 9-11? Why is OKC in the NBA finals instead of a larger market team. Wouldn't the NBA love to see Tim Duncan win then retire? I could go on and on. The most likely reason for something occurring more often than not is the actual reason for its occurrance. Occams Razor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor#God_as_beside_the_razor

 

As someone else mentioned - I think we neglect how many outcomes could be claimed "rigged"

 

Sure the patriots after 9/11 was a cool storyline for the nfl but so would have been either NY team, the redskins, or even Americas team! Suddenly your up to about a 1/6 chance of conspiracy just off the top of my head and on a single storyline

 

Exactly. If your looking for a Conspiracy theory, you can always find one. Anything can be twisted into a conspiracy of some sort. A conspiracy would need a small group of people to pull off, not a league wide conspiracy involving a large number of people.

[/dev/null]

W had money riding on the Giants so Cheney used his Hurricane Machine to nudge Norwood's kick ever so slightly off to the right

[plenzmd1]

Heard this one yesterday...Stern wants long series..Love him or hate him LeBron is ratings gold. So to make sure heat get win, bring in Crawford to ref game.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/14698/dan-crawford-the-heat-and-the-1-9-percent

 

BTW, ton of wise guy money on heat sat night

[DC Tom]

W had money riding on the Giants so Cheney used his Hurricane Machine to nudge Norwood's kick ever so slightly off to the right

 

Actually, at the time it was the Yakuza's hurricane machine.

 

Which makes more sense when you think about it.

[truth on hold]

Heard this one yesterday...Stern wants long series..Love him or hate him LeBron is ratings gold. So to make sure heat get win, bring in Crawford to ref game.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/14698/dan-crawford-the-heat-and-the-1-9-percent

 

BTW, ton of wise guy money on heat sat night

Makes no sense. OKC never would have been allowed to come all the back like they did. If KD makes the FG it goes to OT, if they kick it out to harden and he drains another 3 OKC win.

[KD in CA]

My thinking is that all games aren't rigged but that there are desired outcomes by the league. Certain games at certain times imo are pushed toward an outcome. If it happens the league is happy if it doesn't they missed an opportunity. I think this would be easily achieved simply by having a few calls go one way or the other. I'm not saying that this is the case in either of the games you mentioned (as I agree with your point) just my feeling that this is how "fixing" is or could be done. I think the risk is to great to make anything happen every time exactly how the league would want it and much easier to conceal if outcomes are guided and the result is achieved routinely but not every time.

I ref soccer currently and have reffed basketball in the past. It amazes me how momentum can be swung by one call as well as outcomes of entire games depending on timing and egregiousness of a call.

 

Yes, I agree that fixing can and is done by making a few seemingly inconsequential calls here and there, not on the 'big play' that so many focus on. That's why a sport like basketball is so easy to fix-- there are 50 foul calls every game. Tilt it 30/20 instead of 25/25 and you've significantly impacted the game. Same with soccer fouls, offsides calls, etc. If football is fixed, it's going to be done with holding calls, not by inventing a Tuck Rule in the middle of a last second drive by a rookie QB in a huge snowstorm. If the league wanted NE to win that game, they sure as hell wouldn't have left it up to Vinitari hitting an impossible FG. Ditto with the Forward Lateral, No Goal and pretty much every other Buffalo sports conspiracy.

[plenzmd1]

Makes no sense. OKC never would have been allowed to come all the back like they did. If KD makes the FG it goes to OT, if they kick it out to harden and he drains another 3 OKC win.

Facts be facts..heat are now 14-3 when he refs..closer to 500 when he does not. 12-4-1 vs the spread..under 500 when he does not.

 

btw, I don't believe this stuff..but one could make the argument.

[truth on hold]

Biggest farce I've ever seen in sports was Roy jones jr losing a decision and a gold medal to the Korean fighter when the Olympics were held in Korea. In my simplified definition it was a conspiracy because it involved multiple people and coordination.

 

[Buftex]

It's just very convenient that in an era when the NBA was really down, you had the two big college stars end up on the two most storied franchises; the white guy in Boston and the black guy in LA. Result: Huge surge in league popularity and financial fortune for the league as a whole. Maybe that's coincidence, but it sure worked out for everyone.

 

As for Ewing, the point was to get the biggest star in the biggest market and the media capital. He didn't need to win a ring for the NBA to be able to leverage him into a bigger TV deal and turn MSG into a sellout every night (and he would have won his title if John Starks could have shot better than my mother in Game 7 that one year).

 

 

Yes, it did work for everyone... it could be that two great franchise's knew what they were doing? For Stern and company to pull off that fix (Bird to Boston, Magic to LA) would have taken an amazing amount of Nostrodomian vision. It may have worked out best for all (Boston, LA, the NBA) but who knows...if Magic or Bird had ended up with different teams, maybe we wouldn't even rememmber them now. Good franchises have a knack of making things work out for them.

[Just Jack]

Heard this one yesterday...Stern wants long series..Love him or hate him LeBron is ratings gold. So to make sure heat get win, bring in Crawford to ref game.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/14698/dan-crawford-the-heat-and-the-1-9-percent

 

BTW, ton of wise guy money on heat sat night

That reminds me, back in high school (mid 80's) one of my teachers was convinced the World Series was fixed, to make it last 6-7 games, to get advertiser $$$.