BillsWatch Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I am talking about 5 DL (I'd guess they would put KW as center), 2 LBs, 3 CBs and a safety? Remember reading about it a couple of years ago bur Bills never had the horsepower. Teams would probably try to match it with 5 WRs and try to get between the DL and LBs but there would be a lot of pressure on OL and QB especially without a RB to pick up a blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Our 5 would be... W,M,D, Anderson and Merriman? Our 2 would be... Shepherd and Barnett? Our 3 would be... Williams and Gillmore? Our 1 would be... Byrd? That would leave some great talent on the bench (namely McGee, Morrison and Wilson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBeck/cuba Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Our 5 would be... W,M,D, Anderson and Merriman? Our 2 would be... Shepherd and Barnett? Our 3 would be... Williams and Gillmore? Our 1 would be... Byrd? That would leave some great talent on the bench (namely McGee, Morrison and Wilson) i would go with kelsay instead of merriman but the formation leans toward 3 DTs agree with LBs and at CB put McGee with the kids. this sounds like a package def not a base and I like it but you gotta get pressure and get it fast. i would play it here and there but not everywhere sam i am. sorry i couldnt help myself. But in all seriousness i would say go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Our 5 would be Williams, Kelsey, KW, Dareus, Anderson using the two new DEs to cap what the starting line was supposed to be last year. Our 3 would be... Williams and Gillmore and another CB probably McGee (2+1=3). Talent will be left on the bench - problem would be is there enough DL to rotate in to keep them fresh. Wilson being on the bench is the biggest weakness, he was a real play maker last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I can see the 3 safety defense of Tank Carders TCU catching on quicker, considering the pass happy nature of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I suppose if you knew the team was going to call a draw play on third and 25 this would be a perfect defense. What other situation would this defense be played? There are not enough DB's to effectively cover even a 3 WR set let alone 4 or 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I am talking about 5 DL (I'd guess they would put KW as center), 2 LBs, 3 CBs and a safety? Remember reading about it a couple of years ago bur Bills never had the horsepower. Teams would probably try to match it with 5 WRs and try to get between the DL and LBs but there would be a lot of pressure on OL and QB especially without a RB to pick up a blocker. Some college teams run a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5. It's basically our nickel and dime packages that they say we run half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Some college teams run a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5. It's basically our nickel and dime packages that they say we run half the time. yup. expect even more of this. on the 5-2, thats where the 3-4 comes from. a 3-4 OLB is a stand-up DE. so id guess quite a few teams went 5-2 Edited May 10, 2012 by playman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Our 5 would be... W,M,D, Anderson and Merriman? Our 2 would be... Shepherd and Barnett? Our 3 would be... Williams and Gillmore? Our 1 would be... Byrd? That would leave some great talent on the bench (namely McGee, Morrison and Wilson) A WMD does mean A- Anderson, Weapon- Williams, Mass- Mario, Destruction- Dareus... I like it. Im for calling the front four A WMD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The 4-2-5 look could be a game-changer in the pass-happy NFL if you've got a stellar D line. It would appear the Bills now have the horses to show this look. In order to protect against the run, I'd envision Scott as one of the five DBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoName Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The bills have played a modified version of this a lot in the past under Cotrell. They run a 50 out of the 34. Basically the 2 OLB are on the line setting the edge and the traditional DE's play over the guards and the NT over the center. I don't see the need for it in this pass happy league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STLBILLS15 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) I am talking about 5 DL (I'd guess they would put KW as center), 2 LBs, 3 CBs and a safety? Remember reading about it a couple of years ago bur Bills never had the horsepower. Teams would probably try to match it with 5 WRs and try to get between the DL and LBs but there would be a lot of pressure on OL and QB especially without a RB to pick up a blocker. Are you talking about an over/under front with a stand up LB playing? Or a three man T,N,T front with 2 stand up guys or ends? With all the pressure you would try to apply on the QB, you could expect a lot more 0 coverage. Edited May 10, 2012 by STLBILLS15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 As NoName just said, the 50 front is essentially an eagled down version of the 3-4, so a few teams, most notably the Ravens and earlier in the 2000s the Pats have run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) I am talking about 5 DL (I'd guess they would put KW as center), 2 LBs, 3 CBs and a safety? Remember reading about it a couple of years ago bur Bills never had the horsepower. Teams would probably try to match it with 5 WRs and try to get between the DL and LBs but there would be a lot of pressure on OL and QB especially without a RB to pick up a blocker. Seems like putting the QB in shotgun and running a lot of quick passing plays would back off that kind of undisguised pressure. Playing from a base 4-man line and throwing in the odd blitz would likely be more effective... Edited May 10, 2012 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 It's called The Al Meltzer Defense. Wanny just likes to rush four for the most part. I think as a base defense it would be an unnecessary risk. But wouldn't mind a package of it periodically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 if you bring five dudes its a blitz. If your scheme is to bring 5, you may need to change the fifth guy rushing, or opposing QB's will go to the uncovered part of the field. And, one safety won't work either, unless you want to see if our db's can run up and down the field one on one. Can't wait to see Aaron Williams chasing after mike Wallace on a streak, with one safety back there. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Don't know about 5-2-3-1 but the giants play a 4-3-4 that can turn into a 5-1-5 they use Mathias Kiwanuka 6,5 267 at LB/DE and play Jacquian Williams 6,2 223 a small fast LB who can drop like a safety. The Bills could probably do something similar with Merriman and Scott/Searcy if they wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The pats* used to do it with all the linemen standing up a few years ago. And Trent sucked at doing anything about it, it is good a against a deer in the head lights QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 A 50 front is reserved for short yardage and conversely 3rd and a mile, as well as double TE formations. It's more simple than switching personel too, simply slide the line to the strong side and the WIL steps up and shades outside shoulder of the TE on the weak side. MLB and SAM slide to cover the middle, like a 34 LB set. Usually, the SS will cheat up into more of a teener LB/DB position to help out with the short pass and/or PA. That leaves the secondary in a cover 3, essentially. Personally, I think its a pop warner/HS D, maybe some Colleges, but I don't like it at the NFL level. Just my HO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STLBILLS15 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 , I think its a pop warner/HS D, maybe some Colleges, but I don't like it at the NFL level. Just my HO. A lot of more athletic high school teams run this as well , and run cover 0, quarters, or thirds behind it. It's a tough theory to hope "our guys get there before the QB throws the ball" situation. But i agree, It's really not a fit in an NFL defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 For what it's worth, my high school team ran a 5-2-2-2 We had five down linemen, two LBs, two "inverts" and two DBs. Depending on the flow of the play, one invert moved up to play more-or-less like a LB. The other would drop back to play centerfield. We went 8-0 and I think only gave up 2 TDs all season long running this D my junior year. My senior year, though, we went 2-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) The 4-2-5 look could be a game-changer in the pass-happy NFL if you've got a stellar D line. It would appear the Bills now have the horses to show this look. In order to protect against the run, I'd envision Scott as one of the five DBs. You are completely right this could revolutionize the game. Then on sure passing downs you could put all DE pass rushers in even in the tackle spots. They should have interesting names too like kikunika or drayhan or even a double hyphen thing with two first names like Peter-Phil I bet they would even be able to beat high powered passing attacks like the patriots or the packers. This would definitely win a super bowl or two. Houston really need to consider trying this... Edited May 10, 2012 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 This is a great thread. No doubt the defensive roster looks like it's being molded into a strong base nickel. If this defense can stop the run and rush the passer while lined up in the nickel then we might see some really special football from these guys. What I like best is that the current roster has so many players that are yet to play their best football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 The 4-2-5 look could be a game-changer in the pass-happy NFL if you've got a stellar D line. It would appear the Bills now have the horses to show this look. In order to protect against the run, I'd envision Scott as one of the five DBs. Didn't Wanny or someone actually say this? That they'd use Scott this year as a hybrid? Maybe in something like a 4-2-5 where he could either function as a DB or LB or something in-between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Didn't Wanny or someone actually say this? That they'd use Scott this year as a hybrid? Maybe in something like a 4-2-5 where he could either function as a DB or LB or something in-between? Scott was a hybrid nickel backer in Jairon tampa 2. Jeeze folks i am excited about this year too but 4-2 nickel is not a new concept nor is 4-1-6 dime (Chicagos famed 46)... The d schene they play this year wil resemble the cowboys that beat our bills in 2 superbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Basically a 5-2 is what you are describing. 5 D-line, 2 LB's, and 4 DB's. For whatever reason its hard to keep 5 D-line on the field as it opens you up to being spread out. The 5-2-3-1 basically is like committing the extra safety in the box but as a D-lineman. It could work as a wrinkle to a D particularly in the Goal line or Redzone. But a 4-2-3-2 accomplishes a similar feat but keeps the D much less susceptible to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 It was my impression we were picking up Mario Williams and Mark Anderson to rush the QB in 4-3. Would this new formation only be used on obvious passing downs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The 4-2-5 look could be a game-changer in the pass-happy NFL if you've got a stellar D line. It would appear the Bills now have the horses to show this look. In order to protect against the run, I'd envision Scott as one of the five DBs. On running downs, sure, since he's the quasi-linebacker anyway. But on passing downs, probably somebody either with more range, or more of a blitz threat that the offense has to account for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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