Reed83HOF Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 you think its kuechly over reiff? i think its reiff or floyd. prob reiff…. Reiff is an RT not going to be an LT...someone mentioned that he is another Bulaga and he is. We passed on Bulaga we will pass on this guy too... If Karl Malone's bastard son would just resign life would be easier this draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Reiff is an RT not going to be an LT...someone mentioned that he is another Bulaga and he is. We passed on Bulaga we will pass on this guy too... If Karl Malone's bastard son would just resign life would be easier this draft C'Mon really?? Based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Reiff is an RT not going to be an LT...someone mentioned that he is another Bulaga and he is. We passed on Bulaga we will pass on this guy too... If Karl Malone's bastard son would just resign life would be easier this draft I don't understand the reasoning that we passed on Bulaga so we will pass on Reiff? The Bills may have liked Bulaga a ton, who knows? Not that I have any reason to think they liked or didn't like him. Just because they took CJ Spiller, a guy they absolutely loved at #9 doesn't say anything at all about Bulaga other than they liked one guy better. And just because one Iowa tackle didnt become a great NFL LT has ZERO bearing on whether another NFL tackle prospect from Iowa will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I don't understand the reasoning that we passed on Bulaga so we will pass on Reiff? The Bills may have liked Bulaga a ton, who knows? Not that I have any reason to think they liked or didn't like him. Just because they took CJ Spiller, a guy they absolutely loved at #9 doesn't say anything at all about Bulaga other than they liked one guy better. And just because one Iowa tackle didnt become a great NFL LT has ZERO bearing on whether another NFL tackle prospect from Iowa will be good. We had line issues then as well. If we liked Bulaga a ton, we would have grabbed him over Spiller, especially with our roster at the time. I know the case with Marshawn needing to get out of Buffalo and all that, but we still had a bunch of RBs and took an RB over a position of need. I know BPA and all that too. I don't disagree with you saying' "who knows" at all. What I will say is that drafting at 9 with Bulaga on the board and a skill player, look at who we chose. I think it is a good tell or look back at past performance with Buddy and & Gailey. Reiff like Bulaga have short arms and are/were viewed to be better guard prospects than Tackles. You could make the same case with Livtre. Which is why no one here is high on kicking him out to LT... Regardless of the players strengths, short stumpy arms on an LT is like being a 5'8" QB, all the skill in the world but you can't see over your OL to throw the ball to the open WR. This will prevent him from being able to grab a hold of the RDE's torso to gain leverage in blocking as the RDE will already have hold of him. That is a huge issue... I never said anything about an Iowa Tackle and future performance. I agree it has zero bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) We had line issues then as well. If we liked Bulaga a ton, we would have grabbed him over Spiller, especially with our roster at the time. I know the case with Marshawn needing to get out of Buffalo and all that, but we still had a bunch of RBs and took an RB over a position of need. I know BPA and all that too. I don't disagree with you saying' "who knows" at all. What I will say is that drafting at 9 with Bulaga on the board and a skill player, look at who we chose. I think it is a good tell or look back at past performance with Buddy and & Gailey. Reiff like Bulaga have short arms and are/were viewed to be better guard prospects than Tackles. You could make the same case with Livtre. Which is why no one here is high on kicking him out to LT... Regardless of the players strengths, short stumpy arms on an LT is like being a 5'8" QB, all the skill in the world but you can't see over your OL to throw the ball to the open WR. This will prevent him from being able to grab a hold of the RDE's torso to gain leverage in blocking as the RDE will already have hold of him. That is a huge issue... I never said anything about an Iowa Tackle and future performance. I agree it has zero bearing. reiff is not considered to be a better prospect at G than T, Edit; Yes, some teams have allegedly thought of him as a G but it seems to be a few. CBSsports has one of the best if not the best overall analysis of prospects, from NFLScout.com, and they say he is viewed by scouts as a ready to play NFL OT who can play either side. http://www.cbssports...players/1695597 I don't at all think that Gailey and Nix would have selected Bulaga over Spiller even if they had them rated dead even. They said before the draft what they wanted. Not to mention that he was #9 and this is #10. Maybe they had Bulaga rated #10. Again, who knows and who cares, all I am saying is just because they didnt pick Bulaga at #9 with Spiller the guy they loved still on the board, has zero bearing on whether they will pass on Reiff at #10, especially this year when they clearly only need two starters (other positions obviously need upgrades but at least we know who is going to start there if no one is drafted high). Edited March 23, 2012 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 We had line issues then as well. If we liked Bulaga a ton, we would have grabbed him over Spiller, especially with our roster at the time. I know the case with Marshawn needing to get out of Buffalo and all that, but we still had a bunch of RBs and took an RB over a position of need. I know BPA and all that too. I don't disagree with you saying' "who knows" at all. What I will say is that drafting at 9 with Bulaga on the board and a skill player, look at who we chose. I think it is a good tell or look back at past performance with Buddy and & Gailey. Reiff like Bulaga have short arms and are/were viewed to be better guard prospects than Tackles. You could make the same case with Livtre. Which is why no one here is high on kicking him out to LT... Regardless of the players strengths, short stumpy arms on an LT is like being a 5'8" QB, all the skill in the world but you can't see over your OL to throw the ball to the open WR. This will prevent him from being able to grab a hold of the RDE's torso to gain leverage in blocking as the RDE will already have hold of him. That is a huge issue... I never said anything about an Iowa Tackle and future performance. I agree it has zero bearing. Doesn't Joe Thomas have short, stumpy arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 reiff is not considered to be a better prospect at G than T, Everything I have seen says he's a tackle in the NFL (although I am sure somewhere some draftnik says he's a guard). CBSsports has one of the best if not the best overall analysis of prospects, from NFLScout.com, and they say he is viewed by scouts as a ready to play NFL OT who can play either side. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1695597 I don't at all think that Gailey and Nix would have selected Bulaga over Spiller even if they had them rated dead even. They said before the draft what they wanted. Not to mention that he was #9 and this is #10. Maybe they had Bulaga rated #10. Again, who knows and who cares, all I am saying is just because they didnt pick Bulaga at #9 with Spiller the guy they loved still on the board, has zero bearing on whether they will pass on Reiff at #10, especially this year when they clearly only need two starters (other positions obviously need upgrades but at least we know who is going to start there if no one is drafted high). I will take your word and read up some more on him as you are one of the smarter posters on here. From what I have read this far, teams view him as a G or a RT more. His LT stock is hurt because of his short arms, which it should. I'm not saying that isn't the only reason he shouldn't be considered, there were knocks on Kyle Williams and look how he turned out. Chances are if you can play you can play. Buddy and Chan also do say that they like players who played against the big boys in strong conferences, so yeah I can see why there is an Iowa knock. I am not saying that is a reason either. Ther are just questions and they need to be weighed out. I also honestly expect Reiff to be gone by 10. Jax could use him and if Miami doesn't get Tannenhill, I have no idea who their RT is... Like you said about Spiller, we said that is what we wanted before the draft, BUddy also said he wants a big WR to go with Stevie, although after signing Williams he backed tracked a bit. I don't know if that is truth or smokescreen to hide Floyd, who is the only WR worth going as high as 10. Again I don't care about Spiller and Bulaga, but you can't dismiss past actions as one offs. Thus far, Buddy has drafted 1 OT and it was a late rounder and we have had this need for a while now. I know there are differences, we wanted to give Bell more time, now we only have 1 LT on the roster. Buddy doesn't have a long track record to look back at historically, but I don't think you can dismiss it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I will take your word and read up some more on him as you are one of the smarter posters on here. From what I have read this far, teams view him as a G or a RT more. His LT stock is hurt because of his short arms, which it should. I'm not saying that isn't the only reason he shouldn't be considered, there were knocks on Kyle Williams and look how he turned out. Chances are if you can play you can play. Buddy and Chan also do say that they like players who played against the big boys in strong conferences, so yeah I can see why there is an Iowa knock. I am not saying that is a reason either. Ther are just questions and they need to be weighed out. I also honestly expect Reiff to be gone by 10. Jax could use him and if Miami doesn't get Tannenhill, I have no idea who their RT is... Like you said about Spiller, we said that is what we wanted before the draft, BUddy also said he wants a big WR to go with Stevie, although after signing Williams he backed tracked a bit. I don't know if that is truth or smokescreen to hide Floyd, who is the only WR worth going as high as 10. Again I don't care about Spiller and Bulaga, but you can't dismiss past actions as one offs. Thus far, Buddy has drafted 1 OT and it was a late rounder and we have had this need for a while now. I know there are differences, we wanted to give Bell more time, now we only have 1 LT on the roster. Buddy doesn't have a long track record to look back at historically, but I don't think you can dismiss it either. I actually went back and looked around and edited my post that you just referenced. I see where some teams allegedly have moved Reiff to a OG on their boards, at least a few. Who knows what 32 teams think. Most of the best draft boards I have seen still list him as a T and still think he is going to go 6-13 or so to a team that needs a tackle, and usually a LT. I'm also not sure who this guy is or where he gets his info from, but he is saying the Bills have scheduled a visit for Jonathan Martin at One Bills Drive, one of their 30 visits, and since the article just came out and references the 20 reps at the pro day I assume that this was found out after the Bills talked to Martin today. In other words, they can't be too concerned about the 20 reps. http://www.buffalobi...rospect-visits/ Also, Buddy's reference to WRs after the Williams signing was only to do with Free Agency. He wanted a big fast guy like meachem and when meachem was no longer there, he didnt think any of the other guys available were what he wanted for the money. That had nothing to do with the draft and it doesn't make any sense that he wouldnt want a WR after he sent a plane to pick up one at 4:01 PM the first day of FA. Edited March 23, 2012 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I actually went back and looked around and edited my post that you just referenced. I see where some teams allegedly have moved Reiff to a OG on their boards, at least a few. Who knows what 32 teams think. Most of the best draft boards I have seen still list him as a T and still think he is going to go 6-13 or so to a team that needs a tackle, and usually a LT. I'm also not sure who this guy is or where he gets his info from, but he is saying the Bills have scheduled a visit for Jonathan Martin at One Bills Drive, one of their 30 visits, and since the article just came out and references the 20 reps at the pro day I assume that this was found out after the Bills talked to Martin today. In other words, they can't be too concerned about the 20 reps. http://www.buffalobi...rospect-visits/ They have to do their due diligence. We have Kirkpatrick coming in as well. I am curious to see if we will schedule Floyd or not. I could see us not bringing him in and then taking him lol. Martin has the intangibles, but he needs to beef it up and that takes time. Not saying that is a bad enough thing that tosses him out of the picture, but he is going to take some time to get it on and to be a player. What is the tradeoff between him and the 3-5th rounders Astro mentioned? I haven't looked yet, but it's a question we have to ask. I am a bit like Buddy, I get nervous when I see players moving around boards from T to G or up and down rounds and positions. What has the player done in the off season that changed what they did during the season? For instance I liked Stephon Gilmore the CB in Rd#2, the kid moved above Kirkpatrick all of a sudden and is going as high as 15. All this since the season ended. So yeah I am nervous with Reiff and Martin. I wouldn't have the balls to pull the trigger at 10 for either of them. I'd be on the ohone trying to get a veteran FA to play for a year or do my best to bring Bell back and give us an out in his contract the following year or 2... jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 If he did 3 reps more and ran .3 seconds faster he'd be a star ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I used to love PFW due to Joel Buchsbaum, but it's not the same and I just don't think nawrocki is as good. 3rd round??? He's out on a limb there. I've read a lot about Joel Buchsbaum, guy really sounded like a one of a kind. Bill Bellechick tried hiring him on numerous occasions, but Joel never wanted to work with 1 team. With that said you have to give some credit to Nolan Nawrocki. He's as good as they come when it comes to accurately predicting the NFL draft. His mocks have consistently graded out as being the most accurate, and as popular as the draft and mock drafts have become that's important. One last thing about Nawrocki: He has accurately predicted the player the Bills will take with their 1st selection the last 6 years. Think about that. In his final mock draft which comes out the day of the draft he has accurately predicted....Donte Whitner, Marshwan Lynch, Leodis McKelvin, Aaron Maybin, CJ Spiller and Marcell Dareus all becoming Bills. I don't think theres one other person that can claim they've been 6 for 6 on the Bills 1st round picks. That's crazy. To me, it indicates the guys got an amazing source with the Bills, so draft morning the first thing I do is check his final mock draft when it comes out.......because for the last 6 years he's told me who it is well befre the Bills made their selection. could be luck but....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggerdaddynj Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Listening to the NFL Network's so-called experts' recent discussions about Reiff and Martin has been discouraging to say the least! However, let's not get too carried away. Though one needs to work on his pass protection and the other his run blocking, I've heard the "experts" say that they think both can develop into legit LTs (in apparently short time) and they also agree they're both 1st round talents who are the two best OTs after Kalil. You'd be hard-pressed to say that LT isn't our position of greatest need followed by WR and OLB. IMHO, there is no OLB who is worthy of the 10th pick. So, the question for me is whether or not I'd be happier over the long term with one of the OTs who will be there at 41 (or later) as my starting LT or with one of the WRs available at 41 as my #2 WR (I think we can safely find our LB in the 3rd). Based on everything I've read and heard (which includes the recent pro day performances), it seems to me that I'll be happier a year from now with Martin or Reiff as my LT and Hill/Wright/Sanu/Jeffery as my #2 WR than I would with Floyd andZebrie Sanders. In fact, if we don't take an OT at 10, then there's a good chance we'll have to wait until the 3rd or even 4th rounds to draft our LT of the future and that player will either be as inadequate as Hairston was at LT (I like him at RT) or will take too long to develop into the LT of the future at which time he will leave us. I think Reiff and Martin are close enough right now and can both start from day one without being at least as capable as Hairston (perhaps more so) and definitely more capable than the alternative picks. Most importantly, I think both are better long term at LT and will provide quality protection for years to come. As for the WRs available at 41, with Stevie in the line-up they'll be solid (had we not resigned Stevie, Floyd would be my pick). In fact, I'm tempted to take Fleener if he's there at 41, grab our LB at 72 and then grab WR/CB BPAs with our two picks in the 4th. Edited March 23, 2012 by biggerdaddynj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Reiff is an RT not going to be an LT...someone mentioned that he is another Bulaga and he is. We passed on Bulaga we will pass on this guy too... If Karl Malone's bastard son would just resign life would be easier this draft I know you don't care, but I found that statement offensive. Just fyi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I get the rep issue, but since when do LTs run 40 yards? As always, these combine stats are way, WAY over-rated. They just serve to diminish everything a player has done ON the field. Strength isn't measured by the bench press, but by leverage, technique and football IQ. Bills have drafted plenty of freak combine guys who can't get it done in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Today was pro day at Stanford and OT Jonathan Martin I feel did not have a good showing... OT Jonathan Martin did 20 reps @ 225 on the bench, ran a 5.33 forty-time, and had a 4.76 short-shuttle time It would have been better if he did nearer 30 reps and ran close to 5.0 ... For Buddy Nix to draft Martin at #10 now would be taking a big chance... too risky a pick This is not to say he would not take him if the Bills move down in the draft... I would be more apt to say if Buddy goes with a OT at #10 he goes with Cordy Glenn... Glenn is very impressive OT Riley Rieff will be a very good Guard.. With his short reach he will not be as affective at OT... Bills may decide to now look at WR Floyd, and a future All Pro Guard in DeCastro...Not a CB in round one. Glen is a monster and good feet. I'd take CB Dre Kirkpatrick in a heart beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 A Good read on OT Prospects by DrafTek. Zebrie Sanders or Brandon Mosley might be a good pickup in the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Martin and Adams have 34" arms, while Reiff has 33 1/4" arms. does 3/4" really make that big a difference? I doubt it. Hasn't hurt Bullaga or Thomas Edited March 23, 2012 by peterpan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Dude Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Yea I think its increasingly coming down to floyd, kuechly, and thats it, unless someone we don't think will fall falls. I never liked martin especially after watching tape. Kalil is incredible but we don't have a chance in hell at him. It would be nice to literally have a franchise left tackle for 12 years though but no thanks to martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I'm not the least bit turned off by Martin's Pro Day results. I cite the following reasons: 1) I always take workouts with a grain of salt. What a guy does on the field during games matters way more than what he does in shorts during a workout. 2) Numbers are just that: numbers. While the bench is a good indicator of whether or not the guy's been hitting the gym hard, it's not the end-all, be-all, especially for taller, longer athletes. A guy with longer arms is always going to struggle more with the bench than a guy with shorter arms. For example, Reilly Reiff's arms are a full inch shorter than Martin's (33 vs. 34), yet they're both 6'5" and around 310 lbs. Reiff put up 23 reps, while Martin put up 20. Last year, Nate Solder, who's 6'8" and 315 lbs, only put up 21 reps. The point, again, is that it's not uncommon for longer-armed athletes to have lower bench press numbers. 3) If you do put significant emphasis on workouts, then look at the whole workout, in which Martin was cited (by both Tony Pauline and Mike Mayock) to have looked comfortable, smooth, and much like a natrual LT in position drills. Again, maybe it's just me, but I'm not at all turned off by it. I only saw him play in 3 or 4 games this year, but he looked rock solid to me. I have a hard time believing anyone on this board has access to actual coaches tape on the guy, but if you can point me toward an example of him struggling in pass protection or run blocking, I'd be interested in looking at it, because I haven't seen it yet. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Wow, 20 reps is really bad. Actually, it's not that bad; it's just not that great either. Nolan nawrocki has martin rated as a 3rd round prospect. Wes bunting another draft guru has him rated somewhere in the late 2nd round. I think a lot of people already knew martin wasn't good enough to be the pick at 10. Cordy glenn is the guy the bills like Not sure where you saw that, but I'd be interested in seeing your source. Personally, I think Glenn is a monster, but probably a RT in the NFL. He might have to drop some weight if he's going to take a shot at LT. A top-tier NFL edge rusher is a lot tougher to keep up with than a college edge rusher. I think you guys are nuts if you think the Bills plans changed because of 20 reps and a bad 40. If he battles his ass off till the whistle and is effective ( which he was), my guess is thats more important. This is where real football people have the edge over us blog- readers. Indeed. The word I often read associated with Martin is "finesse." Not really what I want to hear when I envision a lineman. The National Football Post thinks he "is going to have a hard time keeping the edge clean at the next level." I think the only reason a lot of people on this board are high on him is because Kiper/McShay initially rated him high in January. He's also a Pac-10 player and didn't face many dominant pass rushers. The only game I saw him play was the Stanford-USC game (awesome game) and Andrew Luck seemed like he was running for his freaking life that entire game. I will be very, very worried if the Bills call his name at number 10 overall. Not me...most LT's are "finesse" guys, whereas most RT's are "maulers". It's just the way the positions shake out. You need footwork, agility, and wrist/forearm strength as a LT more than you need brute strength. I don't know how well you remember the USC-Stanford game, but Martin was matched up against Nick Perry, and handled him just fine. In fact, USC did not record a sack that game. Nate Soldier did 21. Michael Oher 21. Jahri Evans 20. Max Starks 21. 20 is not good but not unprecedented either even for guys who seem strong. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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