bbb Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Barely cracked a smile - if muted I'm not sure I would've known the verdict had been read. I don't know if he was in the same mindframe as me. I thought they were going to say 2nd degree murder and give the verdict and then manslaughter and give the verdict. That's what they usually do. And, BTW, who was the blonde next to him? Everything is a balance. Give something, take something. I like the verdict. I still think Zimmerman instigated the whole affair... YET, he was attacked and killed the attacker. Good for him, thank God he killed him or he would be doing time. Maybe Trayvon just got sick of always being hassled and this was not his day... So he attacked... I can understand that, everybody gets hassled a lot, especially AA's... I was just followed all around town by a cop "trying to read my plates." I led him on all through town, making about 20 turns... I finally pulled over and asked what the problem was. That was a first, pulling over a cop, not the other way around! LoL... I am such a douche. Now I am white and respectful... But I was coming home @ 0830 from working the graveyard shift, I was in no mood to be followed. Just imagine if I pulled that crap if i was AA and had issues w/my vechicle, record, what not. I think the cop (white) was astonished with my mood... His reply was: "Oh really?" when I insinuated I don't like creepy cops following me all through my own town... Good part, I am squeaky clean... He had to let me go! Okay, maybe not so sure of that? LoL! All I can conclude is that the balance has shifted... Instigators could have a field day if they shoot first and kill. That is what I have a problem with: Lead them on. The thing is if you were black, you would have blamed the whole thing on being black. Cops are usually equal opportunity aholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 When it comes to a civil trial, the argument's much simpler: Zimmerman got out of his car, followed Martin, and ultimately Martin ended up with a hollow-point bullet in his heart. That's enough to win. The defense Zimmerman will likely use in any civil case that's brought against him will be justifiable use of force, now that he's been found not guilty of non-justifiable use of force. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind'>http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind'>http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 6.013.html If a judge agrees the force was justified in a pre-trial immunity hearing (and I don't know how they could argue otherwise given how the jury decided) then a civil trial can't proceeed. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 6.032.html and, http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/ind ... 6.012.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 So... anyone get any good loot last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 When it comes to a civil trial, the argument's much simpler: Zimmerman got out of his car, followed Martin, and ultimately Martin ended up with a hollow-point bullet in his heart. That's enough to win. It would certainly be easier to justify than a criminal conviction, especially considering puppy48579's negligence argument wouldn't get laughed out of court, but the plaintiff will still have a problem establishing causation. The "but for" causation that the retards have bee regurgitating (but for him getting out of the car...) is only half the question. They also have to establish that it was also the proximate or legal cause of TM's death. The problem is that TM punching him the face is an intervening cause that breaks the chain of causation. Therefore, they still have essentially the same legal hurdle, the bar's just been lowered a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Anyone see Stevie Johnson's tweet about the case? "Living in a world where you fight dogs; you could lose everything (Mike Vick).. If you kill a black man you're not guilty! #INjusticeSystem" https://twitter.com/...233842404753409 And then there's Roddy White's, which is extremely distasteful: "All them jurors should go home tonight and kill themselves for letting a grown man get away with killing a kid" https://twitter.com/...247500937629696 I'd link to the original Bleacher Report article that lists all sorts of tweets, but that's apparently not allowed here... Both those !@#$ing hypocrites need to shut up. Where are they when hundreds of black youths are killed every month? Is it only a travesty when a so called "white" person is the one who kills a black person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 It would certainly be easier to justify than a criminal conviction, especially considering puppy48579's negligence argument wouldn't get laughed out of court, but the plaintiff will still have a problem establishing causation. The "but for" causation that the retards have bee regurgitating (but for him getting out of the car...) is only half the question. They also have to establish that it was also the proximate or legal cause of TM's death. The problem is that TM punching him the face is an intervening cause that breaks the chain of causation. Therefore, they still have essentially the same legal hurdle, the bar's just been lowered a bit. That seems like it would be more of a problem for DOJ's civil rights suit that it would for a civil suit. And it strikes me that the only argument they'd really need to make in a civil suit is that Zimmerman's use of deadly force was out of proportion to the situation he was in - "If you're fight, certainly it's reasonable to defend yourself. But is it reasonable to defend yourself with your fists, or with a firearm?" That'll resonate in a civil suit - hell, most of the comments we're seeing on the verdict amount to that same damn argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I think I posted this a while back, but it's worth mentioning again. About a year or so ago I could have been in Zimmerman's position. A black guy was on my friend's neighbor's porch around midnight. The guy looked suspicious and we walked up to him and asked him what he was doing while calling the cops. My friend went in his house to get his doberman while I questioned the guy in the street. I never threated or made physical contact with the man, but I asked him who he was and who he was looking for. It turned out he was a prowler, didn't know who lived there, claimed he had the wrong address, but couldn't even come up with the name or address he was looking for. By the time the cops got there he was long gone and probably has victimized others since. If I'd followed him up the street to tell the cops where he was he could have answered to them. If at any time he had decided to attack me, and was able to break my nose, mount me, and start pummeling me (which is unlikely, but he could be tougher than he looks) I would have shot him out of fear for my safety, and I'd be in the exact same spot as Zimmerman (minus tea and skittles). Wow that sounds like a scary incident. Glad nothing bad happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Somebody please tell the NAACP that there's already been a civil rights investigation by the DOJ and FBI, and they found nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I don't know if he was in the same mindframe as me. I thought they were going to say 2nd degree murder and give the verdict and then manslaughter and give the verdict. That's what they usually do. And, BTW, who was the blonde next to him? The thing is if you were black, you would have blamed the whole thing on being black. Cops are usually equal opportunity aholes. Agree bbb. Yet, blacks get hasseled way more... My AA neighbors get stopped 100 times more...Even while walking to the park! It only takes one time to blow up @ them and be in world of poo poo w/the po po... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Agree bbb. Yet, blacks get hasseled way more... My AA neighbors get stopped 100 times more...Even while walking to the park! It only takes one time to blow up @ them and be in world of poo poo w/the po po... I used to work for a guy who, half the time he drove in to DC, got stopped just for being a black man driving a Cadillac Escalade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) I hear you... Gotta be tough. My neighbor overheard me talking to wife, I was livid getting home. He said: "Try to live in my skin." We both laughed. Co-worker got stopped and cuffed, regular citizen minding his own business. They let him go and had his keys! Family member is a CPD officer... She had to go get the keys back! WTF! Dealing w/it day in and day out, eventually people blow. Look what Branch Rickey had to tell Jackie Robinson and to put up w/it for so many years. Do you blame them?? I don't blame Trayvon for taking it to a creepy GZ... Next time carry a gun too and best man get his story straight because the other is dead. He just ran into the wrong guy. His loss. Oh, well. Major phuck up on his part. He (GZ) will have his freedom, family will nail him in civil. Edited July 14, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Everything is a balance. Give something, take something. I like the verdict. I still think Zimmerman instigated the whole affair... YET, he was attacked and killed the attacker. Good for him, thank God he killed him or he would be doing time. Maybe Trayvon just got sick of always being hassled and this was not his day... So he attacked... I can understand that, everybody gets hassled a lot, especially AA's... I was just followed all around town by a cop "trying to read my plates." I led him on all through town, making about 20 turns... I finally pulled over and asked what the problem was. That was a first, pulling over a cop, not the other way around! LoL... I am such a douche. Now I am white and respectful... But I was coming home @ 0830 from working the graveyard shift, I was in no mood to be followed. Just imagine if I pulled that crap if i was AA and had issues w/my vechicle, record, what not. I think the cop (white) was astonished with my mood... His reply was: "Oh really?" when I insinuated I don't like creepy cops following me all through my own town... Good part, I am squeaky clean... He had to let me go! Okay, maybe not so sure of that? LoL! All I can conclude is that the balance has shifted... Instigators could have a field day if they shoot first and kill. That is what I have a problem with: Lead them on. So let me ask you this. If you had gotten out of your car, punched the cop, broken his nose, then got on top of him and started pushing his head into the concrete -- would he have been within his rights to shoot you dead on the spot? Because THAT'S what the evidence says happened. It has nothing to do with being African American and everything to do with TM being stupid and attacking someone. Following someone is not a crime. Talking to someone is not a crime (even if it's accusatory like, "What are you doing here?!"). Punching someone in the nose, on the other hand, is a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 So let me ask you this. If you had gotten out of your car, punched the cop, broken his nose, then got on top of him and started pushing his head into the concrete -- would he have been within his rights to shoot you dead on the spot? Because THAT'S what the evidence says happened. It has nothing to do with being African American and everything to do with TM being stupid and attacking someone. Following someone is not a crime. Talking to someone is not a crime (even if it's accusatory like, "What are you doing here?!"). Punching someone in the nose, on the other hand, is a crime. I agree. I know my limits especially w/a creepy cop and his dog (was a K-9 Unit). But, I don't have to deal w/it a lot. Just time to time, being tailed "reading my plates". Long live the instigators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 I agree. I know my limits especially w/a creepy cop and his dog (was a K-9 Unit). But, I don't have to deal w/it a lot. Just time to time, being tailed "reading my plates". Long live the instigators! If you messed with the cop, nobody would pay attention. But if you messed with the dog, aw snap you're going to prison! Plus I would hunt you down because i don't care for people who hurt dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Somebody please tell the NAACP that there's already been a civil rights investigation by the DOJ and FBI, and they found nothing. If Harry Reid is right, and it isn't over, and Holder finds charges against Zimmerman, there should be no person left on this planet who doesn't see the Obama administration as the most embarrassing administration of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 So let me ask you this. If you had gotten out of your car, punched the cop, broken his nose, then got on top of him and started pushing his head into the concrete -- would he have been within his rights to shoot you dead on the spot? Because THAT'S what the evidence says happened. It has nothing to do with being African American and everything to do with TM being stupid and attacking someone. Yes, BUT...there would still be questions surrounding "excessive use of force" on his part. Which is my point. Under the law, was Zimmerman within his rights to shoot Trayvon under the expectation that he could fear serious harm or death? Yes, possibly...enough to cast reasonable doubt on any criminal charges. Under a civil suit...now "excessive force" comes in to question, given that Zimmerman "brought a gun to a fist fight." And that makes the outcome of a civil suit a lot murkier. If Harry Reid is right, and it isn't over, and Holder finds charges against Zimmerman, there should be no person left on this planet who doesn't see the Obama administration as the most embarrassing administration of all. Half the people in the country think that would be justice done. And they will find charges against Zimmerman. The same way Starr eventually found something on Clinton: keep looking until you do. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if Reid and Pelosi introduced some sort of a bill of attainder to make sure he's charged with something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 There will be no DOJ outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Yes, BUT...there would still be questions surrounding "excessive use of force" on his part. Which is my point. Under the law, was Zimmerman within his rights to shoot Trayvon under the expectation that he could fear serious harm or death? Yes, possibly...enough to cast reasonable doubt on any criminal charges. Under a civil suit...now "excessive force" comes in to question, given that Zimmerman "brought a gun to a fist fight." And that makes the outcome of a civil suit a lot murkier. Half the people in the country think that would be justice done. And they will find charges against Zimmerman. The same way Starr eventually found something on Clinton: keep looking until you do. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if Reid and Pelosi introduced some sort of a bill of attainder to make sure he's charged with something. I totally agree w/your position. Keep digging... Just like cops do when tailing some, something is bound to be wrong. Lapse insurance, broken tail light, etc... etc... I got lucky. He even called an AA cop for backup against my snarky white butt... LoL... I got lucky. The deck is stacked people. Edited July 14, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 And here comes the calls for gun control Never let a crisis go to waste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 And here comes the calls for gun control Never let a crisis go to waste Another example (five years in) that Mr Obama is not an executive in any form....but remains a community organizer. We have a tragic death, lets use it to further what we want. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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