Trayvon Martin Case

[Rob's House]

If GZ is convicted I think his lawyer will regret seating an all female jury. I know some like puppy48579 or that shrill drive by chick will cry sexism, but everyone (save for a few virgin guys) know that women tend to be more emotionally driven than men, and that's the last thing you want in a case like this.

[B-Man]

If GZ is convicted I think his lawyer will regret seating an all female jury. I know some like puppy48579 or that shrill drive by chick will cry sexism, but everyone (save for a few virgin guys) know that women tend to be more emotionally driven than men, and that's the last thing you want in a case like this.

 

On the other hand, when he is found innocent, those outraged would have one less complaint to use (with an all-female jury)

[boyst]

If GZ is convicted I think his lawyer will regret seating an all female jury. I know some like puppy48579 or that shrill drive by chick will cry sexism, but everyone (save for a few virgin guys) know that women tend to be more emotionally driven than men, and that's the last thing you want in a case like this.

Is it, though? It is like a defensive breakdown (football defense).

 

My thought is that maybe initially they get the pity feelings. Oh, poor mom, family - a kid is dead. Yeah, at 17 he was a kid. He was definitely emotionally immature but street smart. So what?

 

The 2 hours yesterday were probably just talking about the crust of the case. They finally got time to talk about it together. To say, "wow, I am so sad. I could not imagine it being my son." "Wait, I am a good mother, my son may have made mistakes but I have raised him better to be that stupid like TM." "Well, I do not know what my son would do if he was really scared."

 

... like you said, it is women on emotion. It is nearly impossible to say. But, I am thinking that by now - in that room, they are weighing out last bits of evidence. I am sure that there are several that have made up their minds of innocent - how could you not. I would bet there was stalwarts that were unsure. Today, after a long trial, maybe they will be able to buckle down and put down the facts.

 

On legal insurrection there have been a lot of comments of people who have served on the jury and how it worked in their cases. It was really informational to read.

[Rob's House]

 

 

On the other hand, when he is found innocent, those outraged would have one less complaint to use (with an all-female jury)

 

I'm not so sure he'll be acquitted. My wife's been reading me some comments from her FB on the case & there are a lot of people out there who make puppy seem reasonably intelligent by comparison. These jurors could fall into either camp. A hung jury would not surprise me.

[Nanker]

Because with the jury instructions, if the jury actually follows the jury instructions, they'll acquit Zimmerman.

 

Is anyone else out there interested in the formal instructions given to the jury by the judge, other than me?

 

They're pretty important.

Here's the text. I believe she only read these verbatim.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153397679/Zimmerman-Final-Jury-Instructions

[PearlHowardman]

The instructions are not as important as the understanding of the law.

 

Jury instructions define the law. To me it's why they're so important.

 

Here's the text. I believe she only read these verbatim.

http://www.scribd.co...ry-Instructions

 

I always thought that juries got hard copies of the jury instructions. It's a long document.

 

A hung jury would not surprise me.

 

A hung jury should have been the goal of the defense team. I don't know why the defense team approved an all-female jury.

[boyst]

http://t.co/tzcoYaPcRE Teen arrested in Illinois after Tweet about killing his schoolmates and getting away with it "like Zimmerman"

 

I hope they actually go through Twitter and arrest these folks. Just like they should have with Scott Walker. There were hundreds of death threats on Twitter about him.

 

and

Rene Stutzman @renestutzman

 

About 9:15a all big exhibits, #Trayvon's pants, hoodie & #Zimmerman's jacket, etc. we're moved from evidence room toward jurors' door.

[Nanker]

Jury instructions define the law. To me it's why they're so important.

I always thought that juries got hard copies of the jury instructions. It's a long document.

 

A hung jury should have been the goal of the defense team. I don't know why the defense team approved an all-female jury.

WRT a hung jury, the prosecution - in this case the persecution has the option of retrying the defendant.

I don't know the rationale behind the all female jury - including the alternates. That seems a bit odd to me on the face of it. Maybe the defense figures that fewer of them will receive death threats from the mob if the vote to acquit.

 

On another note, I don't know why some people feel compelled to directly address a poster regarding posts to which the conversation was not directed at them. It's a sign of B.O. type of immaturity (It's all about ME!) and possible mental illness.

[boyst]

https://twitter.com/kaitlynross1/status/356052568604033029/photo/1 - woman reenacting the shooting laying in the demonstration area.

 

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/07/13/whistleblower-who-reported-prosecution-concealment-of-evidence-in-zimmerman-case-is-fired/ - the whistleblower who announced the withheld evidence was fired by Angela Corey

 

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/12/new-black-panther-party-tweets-about-street-maneuvers-surrounding-zimmerman-verdict-high-chance-of-rebellion-if-acquitted/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=Share%20Buttons - New Black Panthers tweeting operations codes or something

 

Nancy Grace ‏@NancyGraceHLN 15h

Give #Zimmerman back his life?! He's out on bond driving through Taco Bell every night! Who's going to give life back to #Trayvon?

 

I would like someone to take her out, though.

[3rdnlng]

with all due respect

 

 

I'm going to stand up for what I believe in and stand up for all the posters who feel intimiated posting in PPP.

 

Just so we're all perfectly clear on this Nanker,

 

I don't come here expressing my opinions for you to agree with me ( or win a popularity contest)

 

I did a search of your posts in this thread. I was limited to the last 200 posts. Those were all in the last ten days. I believe you first posted in this thread on 6-28-13, so there is a much larger body of your work here. Does it not bother you that after all those posts you still do not know one iota more than you did on 6-28-13? All you have done is post uninformed opinions gained from watching Nancy Grace and then when people insult you for your stupidity, you come crying back to complain that everyone is treating you so badly. You have not availed yourself of the opportunity people here have given you with their links to time frames, maps, articles, etc. to learn anything. All you have done is avoid anything that would be in conflict with your own prematurely drawn opinion. I have asked you specific questions about the case on numerous occasions and also insulted you in the post. Every single time you responded complaining about the insult and saying nothing about my questions to you about the case. I also sent posts in your direction asking you questions about the case but refrained from any insults. You didn't even bother to respond to those. So, the insults you receive are only reflections of your own stupidity. They are well deserved.

Edited July 13, 2013 by 3rdnlng

[meazza]

 

 

yet I get PM's from posters telling me they agree with me, and how hard it is to post in PPP,

 

go figure...

 

And? This forum is self moderated for a reason.

 

So stfu

[boyst]

I did a search of your posts in this thread. I was limited to the last 200 posts. Those were all in the last ten days. I believe you first posted in this thread on 6-28-13, so there is a much larger body of your work here. Does it not bother you that after all those posts you still do not know one iota more than you did on 6-28-13? All you have done is post uninformed opinions gained from watching Nancy Grace and then when people insult you for your stupidity, you come crying back to complain that everyone is treating you so badly. You have not availed yourself of the opportunity people here have given you with their links to time frames, maps, articles, etc. to learn anything. All you have done is avoid anything that would be in conflict with your own prematurely drawn opinion. I have asked you specific questions about the case on numerous occasions and also insulted you in the post. Every single time you responded complaining about the insult and saying nothing about my questions to you about the case. I also sent posts in your direction asking you questions about the case but refrained from any insults. You didn't even bother to respond to those. So, the insults you receive are only reflections of your own stupidity. They are well deserved.

He deleted a lot... A LOT ... of his own posts, as well. Which is just bizarre.

[Just Jack]

Dog has been sent to the pound, let's get back on topic....

 

Do I send my shopping list to the Black Panthers when the riot starts?

[NoSaint]

Dog has been sent to the pound, let's get back on topic....

 

Do I send my shopping list to the Black Panthers when the riot starts?

 

Yes, apparently via secret operations codes on twitter

[NoSaint]

HLN just had a caller ask if they really are going to let him own a gun if released, because he's shown if attacked he will kill the person potentially and it's likely to happen and another child could die.

[boyst]

Dog has been sent to the pound, let's get back on topic....

 

Do I send my shopping list to the Black Panthers when the riot starts?

Just once....I would like to see them stand up and take responsibility for being wrong. Imagine the positives if they said they were going to personally protect GZ if innocent as a respect to due cause?

Yes, apparently via secret operations codes on twitter

you know, I follow a lot of the group Anonymous - not that I am a member , but imagine if they did a protest similar to the Scientology demonstrations against the New Black Panthers. The group is much more organized - by their own twitter messages - and you reminded me of that. Edited July 13, 2013 by jboyst62

[meazza]

Just once....I would like to see them stand up and take responsibility for being wrong. Imagine the positives if they said they were going to personally protect GZ if innocent as a respect to due cause?

you know, I follow a lot of the group Anonymous - not that I am a member , but imagine if they did a protest similar to the Scientology demonstrations against the New Black Panthers. The group is much more organized - by their own twitter messages - and you reminded me of that.

 

You're letting this **** get to you.

 

I think you should chill.

[Nanker]

Sounds like good advice to me. I think a lot of people have been sucked into the visceral social cesspool the media created with this case. It's a tragedy a young person lost their life in an altercation like this, but I am a bit indignant that the media tells me that this case is one iota more important than hundreds of other incidents where young people are shot and killed.

[boyst]

You're letting this **** get to you.

 

I think you should chill.

nah. Its not getting to me as much as the words may seem.

 

I've been letting the rain get to me. Time to go play with the cows. Immunize the young ones with a 18g needle.

[3rdnlng]

Sounds like good advice to me. I think a lot of people have been sucked into the visceral social cesspool the media created with this case. It's a tragedy a young person lost their life in an altercation like this, but I am a bit indignant that the media tells me that this case is one iota more important than hundreds of other incidents where young people are shot and killed.

 

My fascination with the case is how the State allowed the media to dictate this persecution. That's the only thing other than the self defense aspect that makes this any different than the other incidents in which people are killed every day.

[Just Jack]

Sounds like good advice to me. I think a lot of people have been sucked into the visceral social cesspool the media created with this case. It's a tragedy a young person lost their life in an altercation like this, but I am a bit indignant that the media tells me that this case is one iota more important than hundreds of other incidents where young people are shot and killed.

 

We have a case here in Syracuse, where four black teenagers beat a older (about 50) white man to death. The police are saying they were just playing the "knockout game" and are letting the family court take care of it.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Dog has been sent to the pound, let's get back on topic....

 

Do I send my shopping list to the Black Panthers when the riot starts?

You're aware that this sub-forum is self moderated, and that giving vacations for things posted here is unwelcome and unnecessary, right?

[Just Jack]

You're aware that this sub-forum is self moderated, and that giving vacations for things posted here is unwelcome and unnecessary, right?

 

You are aware that even though we give PPP a certain amount of free reign, that sometimes people go over the top and steps need to be taken?

[unbillievable]

My fascination with the case is how the State allowed the media to dictate this persecution. That's the only thing other than the self defense aspect that makes this any different than the other incidents in which people are killed every day.

It caught my attention when Obama called trayvon his son.

 

In the future, the media needs to run the "racist" perspective through the asian community. They're the only ones that seem to be objective in these kinds of situations; asians seem to be only racist against other asians.

[NoSaint]

 

You're aware that this sub-forum is self moderated, and that giving vacations for things posted here is unwelcome and unnecessary, right?

 

First you invite him here then you want him back.... Why?!?

[meazza]

First you invite him here then you want him back.... Why?!?

 

I kind of agree with both of them.

[....lybob]

You should have joined the prosecution team. You out of virtually all the posters driving hard for a conviction have at least done homework on the case. Yes, he's said some inconsistent things - which is normal in these circumstances. And maybe, just maybe he didn't go directly back to his car when he said he was. He could have lingered in the area, perhaps even going back and forth on that walkway looking into the rainy darkness to try to locate the man who he thought was a potential burglar. But its clear he was near his car when the altercation took place, and Travon (according to testimony) came back nearly 400 feet to the spot where he met his demise. It seems to me however, if Zimmerman were the aggressor he would have pulled his gun right away.

 

What this has turned in to is a classic show trial. Other than the fact that a 17 year old kid was killed by a gunshot what should America care about here? I submit its not what the media thinks America should be caring about. There are hundreds of murders of teenagers and younger youths that happen in America every year. That's appalling, yet there is no outcry about those dead children.

 

Zimmerman will likely get convicted of manslaughter and so be it if that's what the jury convicts him of. I'm a lot less emotionally attached to this case than most here. I think the cries of justice for Travon have to be equally met with cries of justice for George. You may personally think he's a creep and a coward and he may well be. But the national dialogue on race is diminished by the tawdry actions of the media in this matter.

Of course it is a show trial - these trials are not brought to us in order of importance to our lives but on their perceived ability to attract viewers and they play to our prurient interests- SEX, CELEBRITY, RACE attracts viewers and media is a business, when you strip away commercials and fluff the nightly news has about 4 minutes of news and most of that is establishment propaganda- I find very little new that interests me on TV, interesting information can be found but I have to extract it from the web not let it wash over me from TV.

 

As for TM I don't believe that he went 400-500 ft to his house and then came back- I'll give the events as I find most likely to have happened - and of course totally speculative and unprovable obviously but on PPP, well you know

 

TM runs and turns down the dog walk and hides behind either the first or second little privacy fence on the right hand side (this is a fatal mistake as if he ran all the way home we'd be talking about the sequester or something) why does he hide instead of run? GZ is in a truck on a street that runs parallel to his route home and GZ has been on the his cell as he followed TM (we know he's talking to the police but in TM's mind a partner or partners of some kind).

 

GZ about 10-12 seconds behind TM gets to the dog walk and doesn't see TM (TM had a dark grey sweat shirt but light kaki pants and white sneakers if he was going down the dog walk GZ would have likely seen him)

 

GZ continues to the next street up and doesn't see TM, GZ takes some time scan and then to get his black flash light working but can't, GZ hangs up with police puts his cell away and gets out his key-chain flashlight

 

GZ has his black flashlight in his left hand and Key-chain flashlight in his right hand

 

GZ uses the flashlight to scan down the dog walk maybe moving back and forth along the Tee to get better angles, at some point GZ becomes aware of where TM is and at this point at the top of the Tee GZ drops his key-chain flashlight and gets his gun ready - I don't know if it's out but he has it ready- he already gave indication that he thinks TM may be armed "hand in waist band" (I think GZ's somewhat weird story about fumbling for his cell phone in his pants pocket not knowing it was in his jacket pocket was to give him cover if there were witnesses to this action)

 

GZ starts towards TM's position yelling what are you doing around here, TM aware that he is found comes out and yells "why are you following me " GZ continues to close the distance and again yells "what are you doing here"

 

I think that TM was aware that GZ had a gun - I think the first physical contact was TM swinging or throwing the can of Ice tea and connecting with GZ's face ( the scar near is nose looked like it was made by something circular to me)

 

This is followed up by an immediate struggle for the gun or more accurately TM is doing everything he can to prevent being shot, it goes to ground where GZ gets cuts on the back of his head, TM is on top (no head slamming or MMA pound and ground) both GZ and TM are yelling for help (TM the high pitched wail type helps and oh **** where he probably losing control of GZ's right arm- GZ the lower pitched Help me Help me)

 

GZ wins the struggle and shoots TM, TM probably say "you shot me" not "you got me" like some corny western and falls off to the side

 

GZ goes over to TM and looks hard for a weapon which will make this cluster !@#$ look better

 

neighbor comes over and GZ say" help me, help me restrain him" as he is already trying to shape the narrative

 

and the rest is history

[B-Man]

[meazza]

 

Riker was always a douche.

[TakeYouToTasker]

First you invite him here then you want him back.... Why?!?

I invited him here because he needed to be shown that being stupid can be painful.

 

As for wanting him back, I don't care one way or the other. I simply dislike ham handed and inconsistent moderation, especially on areas of the board that are supposed to be unmoderated.

[DaveinElma]

This is going to be an interesting weekend if a verdict is reached. The longer the jury deliberates the better for Zimmerman.

[dayman]

This is going to be an interesting weekend if a verdict is reached. The longer the jury deliberates the better for Zimmerman.

 

You never know.

[IDBillzFan]

Holder has his people on the case.

 

SANFORD, Fla. – At least one member of the New Black Panther party hopes George Zimmerman is found guilty and murdered in prison.

 

“Anything less than death for George Zimmerman is not justice,” Kojo Kayrallah told The Daily Caller Friday afternoon. Kayrallah, who identified himself as the Chief of Staff for the state of Florida said he and his group were here in Sanford seeking “justice for Trayvon.”

 

When asked if death in prison was satisfactory, Kayrallah said “praise be to God.”

[DC Tom]

which would make you safer with an suspect lying face first on the ground - backing up a few feet holding your gun on him or reengaging the suspect on the ground? obviously no matter what GZ did he gets a pass with you- with this logic I could see farmboy on the road, tell him his cows are ungainly and give lumpy sour milk-start a physical altercation and when he started kicking my azz shot him with a concealed weapon - first we in court prove that farmboys are country strong then pull up a selection of his PPP posts and I'd go scott free.

 

Reengaging him on the ground, to keep him from reaching for a weapon he may or may not have.

 

And I'm not giving Zimmerman a pass on anything - reread my posts on the matter. I'm just pointing out both the massive arrogance and ignorance of your arguments, that you think you know exactly who should have done what when at each moment throughout the incident, yet have absolutely no realistic basis for thinking any of it.

 

 

http://weaselzippers...-case-is-fired/ - the whistleblower who announced the withheld evidence was fired by Angela Corey

 

 

That was shocking when I first heard it. And the more I read into it, the more it looks like a wrongful termination suit waiting to happen.

[unbillievable]

Of course it is a show trial - these trials are not brought to us in order of importance to our lives but on their perceived ability to attract viewers and they play to our prurient interests- SEX, CELEBRITY, RACE attracts viewers and media is a business, when you strip away commercials and fluff the nightly news has about 4 minutes of news and most of that is establishment propaganda- I find very little new that interests me on TV, interesting information can be found but I have to extract it from the web not let it wash over me from TV.

 

As for TM I don't believe that he went 400-500 ft to his house and then came back- I'll give the events as I find most likely to have happened - and of course totally speculative and unprovable obviously but on PPP, well you know

 

TM runs and turns down the dog walk and hides behind either the first or second little privacy fence on the right hand side (this is a fatal mistake as if he ran all the way home we'd be talking about the sequester or something) why does he hide instead of run? GZ is in a truck on a street that runs parallel to his route home and GZ has been on the his cell as he followed TM (we know he's talking to the police but in TM's mind a partner or partners of some kind).

 

GZ about 10-12 seconds behind TM gets to the dog walk and doesn't see TM (TM had a dark grey sweat shirt but light kaki pants and white sneakers if he was going down the dog walk GZ would have likely seen him)

 

GZ continues to the next street up and doesn't see TM, GZ takes some time scan and then to get his black flash light working but can't, GZ hangs up with police puts his cell away and gets out his key-chain flashlight

 

GZ has his black flashlight in his left hand and Key-chain flashlight in his right hand

 

GZ uses the flashlight to scan down the dog walk maybe moving back and forth along the Tee to get better angles, at some point GZ becomes aware of where TM is and at this point at the top of the Tee GZ drops his key-chain flashlight and gets his gun ready - I don't know if it's out but he has it ready- he already gave indication that he thinks TM may be armed "hand in waist band" (I think GZ's somewhat weird story about fumbling for his cell phone in his pants pocket not knowing it was in his jacket pocket was to give him cover if there were witnesses to this action)

 

GZ starts towards TM's position yelling what are you doing around here, TM aware that he is found comes out and yells "why are you following me " GZ continues to close the distance and again yells "what are you doing here"

 

I think that TM was aware that GZ had a gun - I think the first physical contact was TM swinging or throwing the can of Ice tea and connecting with GZ's face ( the scar near is nose looked like it was made by something circular to me)

 

This is followed up by an immediate struggle for the gun or more accurately TM is doing everything he can to prevent being shot, it goes to ground where GZ gets cuts on the back of his head, TM is on top (no head slamming or MMA pound and ground) both GZ and TM are yelling for help (TM the high pitched wail type helps and oh **** where he probably losing control of GZ's right arm- GZ the lower pitched Help me Help me)

 

GZ wins the struggle and shoots TM, TM probably say "you shot me" not "you got me" like some corny western and falls off to the side

 

GZ goes over to TM and looks hard for a weapon which will make this cluster !@#$ look better

 

neighbor comes over and GZ say" help me, help me restrain him" as he is already trying to shape the narrative

 

and the rest is history

 

I thought your story was plausible until you got to the part about struggling for the gun. This was clearly a one-sided fight. If it happened the way you said, then TM would have injuries as well, he had none. The fight was so one-sided that had TM knew and struggled for the gun, he would have had no problem getting it away from GZ. What you described doesn't account for the severity of GZ's injuries as well as the almost pristine condition of TM (minus the bullet hole-he didn't even have dna under his nails suggesting a close-fisted fight, not open palm struggle)

 

No one throws punches or even goes for the face when a gun is involved. You struggle for it, and the winner then points it at the loser or throws it away. You don't hand out an ass-whooping (GZ was clearly on the losing end of a beat down) unless the gun is in your possession or no longer an issue.

 

The earliest TM could have known about the gun was mid-ass whoop.

 

PS. I also find the idea of TM hiding a bit of stretch (though arguable). The guy was on the phone with Jeantel. Who the hell hides, but continues to have a regular conversation on the phone?

Edited July 13, 2013 by unbillievable

[dayman]

 

 

That was shocking when I first heard it. And the more I read into it, the more it looks like a wrongful termination suit waiting to happen.

 

Really? That was shocking?

[DC Tom]

Really? That was shocking?

 

Yes. Firing someone for whistleblowing, and explicitly giving whistleblowing as the cause? That's basically what I heard first...and most employers aren't that stupid.

[....lybob]

I thought your story was plausible until you got to the part about struggling for the gun. This was clearly a one-sided fight. If it happened the way you said, then TM would have injuries as well, he had none. The fight was so one-sided that had TM knew and struggled for the gun, he would have had no problem getting it away from GZ. What you described doesn't account for the severity of GZ's injuries as well as the almost pristine condition of TM (minus the bullet hole-he didn't even have dna under his nails suggesting a close-fisted fight, not open palm struggle)

 

No one throws punches or even goes for the face when a gun is involved. You struggle for it, and the winner then points it at the loser or throws it away. You don't hand out an ass-whooping (GZ was clearly on the losing end of a beat down) unless the gun is in your possession or no longer an issue.

 

The earliest TM could have known about the gun was mid-ass whoop.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/06/03/trayvon-martin-crime-scene-evidence-photos-george-zimmerman picture 9 and 11 - that is not what an azz-whooping looks like to me

[dayman]

Yes. Firing someone for whistleblowing, and explicitly giving whistleblowing as the cause? That's basically what I heard first...and most employers aren't that stupid.

 

If your IT guys are leaking or going on about the existence of info your attorney's have decided doesn't have to be disclosed then you s-can him. In the alternative, you agree and discipline or s-can the attorney. But you don't just do nothing. And they sure as hell weren't going to basically admit the prosecution was hiding evidence.

Edited July 13, 2013 by SameOldBills

[unbillievable]

http://www.hlntv.com...eorge-zimmerman picture 9 and 11 - that is not what an azz-whooping looks like to me

 

Don't try and use the cleaned-up photos, we all know how slanted the media was about these. Remember, at first they proclaimed that GZ didn't even show any signs of injuries, until after they enhanced the photos. (ie: avoid anything endorsed by Nancy Grace)

 

Here's one of GZ the night of the fight. http://www.11alive.c...Martin-shooting and not of him after he had been treated (and cleaned up by the doctors). Bloody and broken nose; not something you can attribute to a can of iced tea.

Edited July 13, 2013 by unbillievable