White Linen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What I think can be learned is an unending search for the QB that can win a championship. Denver is a team that doesn't stop searching. Another example is Seattle. They trade for Whitehurst, it doesn't work out, they go get Tavaris, that doesn't work they trade for Flynn. The 49ers don't care how Alex Smith cares, they draft Kaepernick and pursue Manning. Cardinals trade a very good corner and a second round pick for Kolb, they pursued Manning. I think the Bills resting their future on Fitz is a mistake. He's not a super bowl champion type QB, the sooner we the FO admits that and takes advantage of the team we are building the better. It's just my opinion, but I think the days of giving Buffalo QB's 2 extra years to prove what we can easily see has to be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Suck for a bunch of years, draft a headcase QB to team with a young obnoxious (over-his) head coach, trade that QB and get rid if his coach, sign journeyman throwers for 9+ million a year and then trade up in the first round to draft lousy throwing, fan revolting QBs with God complexes, get rid of the 9 mil guy for nothing and then sign a once in a lifetime Hall of Famer before you dump the God dude? We can all learn a lesson from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What I think can be learned is an unending search for the QB that can win a championship. Denver is a team that doesn't stop searching. Another example is Seattle. They trade for Whitehurst, it doesn't work out, they go get Tavaris, that doesn't work they trade for Flynn. The 49ers don't care how Alex Smith cares, they draft Kaepernick and pursue Manning. Cardinals trade a very good corner and a second round pick for Kolb, they pursued Manning. I think the Bills resting their future on Fitz is a mistake. He's not a super bowl champion type QB, the sooner we the FO admits that and takes advantage of the team we are building the better. It's just my opinion, but I think the days of giving Buffalo QB's 2 extra years to prove what we can easily see has to be over. Ya Flynn has been fantastic for Seattle already, Manning isn't even a bronco yet and could be one hit away from the Broadcast booth. I just got NFL Game Rewind and have been watching a lot of fitzy and its pretty clear to me that losing freddy who was leading the NFL in total yardage when he went down and have no pass rush led to our collapse more that Fitz. Fitz can't lead the team on his own, but he is a fine starter with plenty of help. Not everyone has Brees, or Brady or Manning. Thats why those guys are called elite and are so rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I agree to an extent. If you don't have a Stud qb, you should always try and get one....for the right price. Some teams are willing to mortgage everything in order to have a chance at one. Some teams build the team up and take the qbs that fall to them. Hard to say which is the best way. Boom/bust or slow and steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Suck for a bunch of years, draft a headcase QB to team with a young obnoxious (over-his) head coach, trade that QB and get rid if his coach, sign journeyman throwers for 9+ million a year and then trade up in the first round to draft lousy throwing, fan revolting QBs with God complexes, get rid of the 9 mil guy for nothing and then sign a once in a lifetime Hall of Famer before you dump the God dude? We can all learn a lesson from that. Post of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Post of the day. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanCity Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Suck for a bunch of years, draft a headcase QB to team with a young obnoxious (over-his) head coach, trade that QB and get rid if his coach, sign journeyman throwers for 9+ million a year and then trade up in the first round to draft lousy throwing, fan revolting QBs with God complexes, get rid of the 9 mil guy for nothing and then sign a once in a lifetime Hall of Famer before you dump the God dude? We can all learn a lesson from that. God will send his legions to Denver to smite down Peyton. This is a very bad idea.... Agreed on this being the post of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankReichComeback Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 +1 "If you want to crown their ass then CROWN them!" Who is to say that this move is going to end in a championship? Indy had way more talented teams that Denver that went down early in the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 they didnt rest their future on fitz. they gave their starter starters money. the day chix see a guy they are high on hell be on board and give fitz a run for his money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 "If you want to crown their ass then CROWN them!" Who is to say that this move is going to end in a championship? Indy had way more talented teams that Denver that went down early in the playoffs I'm not sure I understand this response...I certainly don't think that this move will end up with a championship coming to Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Nice thread. I think Denver and these other teams show us the obvious-- it's darn-near impossible to get a franchise QB. Teams strike out endlessly, and hope to luck out. And when they do, it is almost by pure luck (Brady in the 6th, Brees as an unwanted FA, Rodgers drops to the bottom of 1st round). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just a hot flash about fitz 10 in the league in TD passes 9 in the league in completion % 11 in the league in total yards and he didnt get to play on a good team(yet). I know that Fitz is not a hall of fame guy but he has proven to be above average in the league. So taking a chance on a back-up who has not been a starter or an injured twilight years starter doesn't make much sense to me. Especially when the Bills have many greater needs that could be filled with the resources. Oh yea lets be like Denver and trade BACK into the 1st round to draft Tebow. And now they will trade him away for less than a first rounder. I think some of you guys like being Bills fans just so you can complain about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Suck for a bunch of years, draft a headcase QB to team with a young obnoxious (over-his) head coach, trade that QB and get rid if his coach, sign journeyman throwers for 9+ million a year and then trade up in the first round to draft lousy throwing, fan revolting QBs with God complexes, get rid of the 9 mil guy for nothing and then sign a once in a lifetime Hall of Famer before you dump the God dude? We can all learn a lesson from that. Nice summary. Somewhere Dan Snyder is breathing a sigh of relief that he's no longer the flakiest owner in the NFL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I agree to an extent. If you don't have a Stud qb, you should always try and get one....for the right price. Some teams are willing to mortgage everything in order to have a chance at one. Some teams build the team up and take the qbs that fall to them. Hard to say which is the best way. Boom/bust or slow and steady. This is the risk/reward of what I was trying to say. I just think the pursuit of a championship QB gives you an opportunity to get one. I believe the Bills have tried and have made moves to get them. My point was we give our QB's the benefit of the doubt a season or two too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This is the risk/reward of what I was trying to say. I just think the pursuit of a championship QB gives you an opportunity to get one. I believe the Bills have tried and have made moves to get them. My point was we give our QB's the benefit of the doubt a season or two too long. Trent Started for 3 years, JP for 2, Bledsoe for 2, Flutie for 1, Johnson for 1 and now fits for 3. Seems to me we have been doing just what you proposed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Suck for a bunch of years, draft a headcase QB to team with a young obnoxious (over-his) head coach, trade that QB and get rid if his coach, sign journeyman throwers for 9+ million a year and then trade up in the first round to draft lousy throwing, fan revolting QBs with God complexes, get rid of the 9 mil guy for nothing and then sign a once in a lifetime Hall of Famer before you dump the God dude? We can all learn a lesson from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) This is the risk/reward of what I was trying to say. I just think the pursuit of a championship QB gives you an opportunity to get one. I believe the Bills have tried and have made moves to get them. My point was we give our QB's the benefit of the doubt a season or two too long. By this standard, I wonder if Eli would still be in NY to have won his 2 Super Bowls. I also wonder if he'd have won even one if the Giants hadn't had their dominant D. By the same standard, Drew Brees would be out of the NFL, Jim Plunkett would never have won a Super Bowl and Steve Young would not have gotten a chance in SF. Peyton Manning would have surely been released by the Colts because he didn't win the SB in his first several seasons.... Players improve (sometimes), other parts of the team matter besides QB. Edited March 19, 2012 by OldTimer1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This whole QB debate becomes quite tiring....I know we all want a QB we love to see take the field and becomes the "face" of the franchise, but I agree with the other posters, QB is a very important part - but still just ONE part of the team concept. While I'm not the biggest Fitz fan, it was apparent to me this team did NOT lose due to Fitz's play, but rather a larger dysfunction on the team as a whole, namely the Defense. I can't understand why Gailey didn't run the ball more often later in the season when it seemed CJ got his legs underneath him but that aside, due to some key Offensive injuries and very poor play by the Defense that was our lackluster season in a nutshell. Fitz is not great, but he CAN be good...and until you maintain a healthy Offensive line and consistency at the WR position along with a Defense that does not stay on the field for more than half the game, I don't believe the BILLS really know if Fitz is the long-term answer. I don't believe he is, but I also don't think he's the reason for our dismal season in 2011. I would like to see the BILLS draft a guy in the 3rd Round and allow him to be groomed and learn the Offense and gain experience and insight by riding the pine, growing in training and practice, and getting a few opportunities in mop up duty and then allowing him to progress to the the point of taking over the Offense by year 3...that would still make this team Fitz's team and really give him an opportunity to prove his mettle and hopefully manage the Offense the place where the BILLS can string together enough wins to be in the playoffs and then who knows from there....but, I also realize "elite" QBs are "elite" for a reason, because they rise above the average to a place where they set the standard and everyone else is chasing them...the Bradys, Mannings', and Brees' of the NFL do not come along often and are not always 1st Round talent, ala Brady and Brees, but as others have pointed out, some very good "teams" have made it to and won the Super Bowl by average QBs who have a solid or good season.....count me in the category who wants to build a team winning concept and make the most of the QB we have now and look to groom the next QB to really add talent and guide the BILLS for ten years afterward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 This whole QB debate becomes quite tiring....I know we all want a QB we love to see take the field and becomes the "face" of the franchise, but I agree with the other posters, QB is a very important part - but still just ONE part of the team concept. While I'm not the biggest Fitz fan, it was apparent to me this team did NOT lose due to Fitz's play, but rather a larger dysfunction on the team as a whole, namely the Defense. I can't understand why Gailey didn't run the ball more often later in the season when it seemed CJ got his legs underneath him but that aside, due to some key Offensive injuries and very poor play by the Defense that was our lackluster season in a nutshell. Fitz is not great, but he CAN be good...and until you maintain a healthy Offensive line and consistency at the WR position along with a Defense that does not stay on the field for more than half the game, I don't believe the BILLS really know if Fitz is the long-term answer. I don't believe he is, but I also don't think he's the reason for our dismal season in 2011. I would like to see the BILLS draft a guy in the 3rd Round and allow him to be groomed and learn the Offense and gain experience and insight by riding the pine, growing in training and practice, and getting a few opportunities in mop up duty and then allowing him to progress to the the point of taking over the Offense by year 3...that would still make this team Fitz's team and really give him an opportunity to prove his mettle and hopefully manage the Offense the place where the BILLS can string together enough wins to be in the playoffs and then who knows from there....but, I also realize "elite" QBs are "elite" for a reason, because they rise above the average to a place where they set the standard and everyone else is chasing them...the Bradys, Mannings', and Brees' of the NFL do not come along often and are not always 1st Round talent, ala Brady and Brees, but as others have pointed out, some very good "teams" have made it to and won the Super Bowl by average QBs who have a solid or good season.....count me in the category who wants to build a team winning concept and make the most of the QB we have now and look to groom the next QB to really add talent and guide the BILLS for ten years afterward... I concur, but I am not totally aligned with the concept of "grooming" a mid-later round pick to be the QB. SOMETIMES, mid-late picks become good QBs, but the phrase "groom a future starter" is a mis-nomer, in my opinion. The later round guys who have succeeded, I would argue, did so because of their innate talent/drive - not because someone "groomed" them. How did it work out for the guys that were "groomed" behind Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, John Elway, etc? Not very well. I don't think it is necessarily coaching-up that helped Brady, Montana, etc to succeed, but rather that they were undervalued and had the talent/drive to succeed all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTW2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What I think can be learned is an unending search for the QB that can win a championship. Denver is a team that doesn't stop searching. Another example is Seattle. They trade for Whitehurst, it doesn't work out, they go get Tavaris, that doesn't work they trade for Flynn. The 49ers don't care how Alex Smith cares, they draft Kaepernick and pursue Manning. Cardinals trade a very good corner and a second round pick for Kolb, they pursued Manning. If your search for a championship-caliber qb leads you to Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst, then I think there's something wrong with your search parameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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