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Now Greg Williams is a cheater?


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Some interesting comments from NO writer Jeff Duncan on twitter...

 

http://twitter.com/#!/jeffduncantp

 

I agree with u 100%, if the Saints players were breaking the rules. They would of been fined for dirty hits immediately after the games or during the week. The NFL looks over film of all the games looking for these types of infractions. This is bullshh the NFL is gonna become flag football someday. Juron style

 

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There's a difference between "hurt" and "injured" that I believe is being blurred here. I honestly dont believe that any Saints player wanted to seriously injure a fellow player. However, you can hurt them so they cant perform as well. And you can do so, while playing completely within the rules.

 

It's the attitude that good defenses have.

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The Saints have never struck me as a dirty team.

 

I'm trying to remember Williams' D in Washington.

 

I'd qualify them as chippy. And they hit qbs when possible, but not crazy dirty with it. Wrs are played as clean as I've seen.

 

I'm still curious to see the jeff fisher angle play out - he keeps hiring him and is a leader within the NFL and coaches. Competition committee and totally unaware of this?

Edited by NoSaint
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So, thinking about this and looking at the details. Some of the bounty money was provided not by players, nor by GW, but also by a convicted felon who was a friend/associate of the head coach but was convicted of fraud (in part for selling falsified NFL merchandise). Hypothetically, if following the money trail led back to gamblers, what would the penalties be? Can anyone support OUTSIDE money coming into an organization to pay players to do anything on the field (let alone injure an opponent)? League has to put this down hard or else the scandal will keep growing. Players putting up their own money is one thing ... Coaches paying players is worse (violates the salary cap, etc)... but having non-team employees contributing to bounties is a completely different level and is no different from gambling.

 

Saints have to lose draft picks and be fined, Payton must be suspended for his association with the felon, and GW who is a repeat offender must be suspended 1yr+.

Edited by HalftimeAdjustment
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Just curious why you think so? People who post here at this time of year may be hard core football types, but casual NFL fans are probably following basketball and/or hockey now.

 

Free agency starts in a few days - - it seems likely that breaking free agent signing news will get the spotlight then.

 

If you were an NFL exec with the power to choose when this story broke, when would you release it?

 

I'm talking about this whole cracking down on head hits/concussion awareness time that keeps gaining steam.

 

Years ago, this wouldn't have been much news.........I remember this story about the '80 Bills where there was a players meeting and Villapiano wanted a guy on defense knocked out of the game, and said Dobler had to do it.....Dobler said No, he can't do it, and then Villapiano and the rest of the players kept at him until he finally promised the guy was going to get knocked out. And, then he did........I don't think they revealed who that player was.

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I agree with fines, picks and gw suspended. SP I think is a fine, and no player suspensions in my book, unless we learn more. The felon story is new to me so it might grow still.

 

I don't see grounds for player suspensions unless something else comes out. The players are the employees of the team. They participated or even endorsed this, but if it was just players then it probably would be the same in almost every other team. Even Vilma offering $10K on Favre is borderline, not sure it is something they can nail him on under the CBA... a fine perhaps.

 

Sean Payton's problem is that the NFL apparently has an email from this Ornstein guy to Sean Payton detailing the bounty scheme. The NFL previously tried to get the Saints to distance themselves from Ornstein after he was convicted of fraud, but he was still around in 2011. You know the league is going to be very unhappy with any guy who is convicted of selling non-game worn jerseys as authentic game-worn jerseys, but still is involved with offering cash for players to perform acts in a game (whether interceptions or big hits). Same guy who represented Reggie Bush. Classy situation New Orleans has going on here.

 

Here's a few links to consider on this aspect of the story.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/3/2/2840512/mike-ornstein-new-orleans-saints-bounty-program

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14087531/why-didnt-saints-cut-ties-with-sketchy-ornstein

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I'm talking about this whole cracking down on head hits/concussion awareness time that keeps gaining steam.

 

Years ago, this wouldn't have been much news.........I remember this story about the '80 Bills where there was a players meeting and Villapiano wanted a guy on defense knocked out of the game, and said Dobler had to do it.....Dobler said No, he can't do it, and then Villapiano and the rest of the players kept at him until he finally promised the guy was going to get knocked out. And, then he did........I don't think they revealed who that player was.

Conrad Dobler had to be persuaded to do something dirty? Now that's man bites dog news!

 

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/dirtiest/players.html

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Here's a great humblebrag tweet from Shawne Merrimen:

 

Why is this a big deal now? Bounties been going on forever. A "Bounty" left me with a torn PCL and LCL in my knee check the 07' Titans game I was pissed I had to play in the pro bowl with that knee like that lol #Stillhere

shawnemerriman

A Tweet by @shawnemerriman

Some background about Merriman's claim - - reportedly involved coach-ordered retaliation by the Titans but no financial bounty:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20120302_merriman_questions_why_bounty_is_news_now

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Apparently the issue is confusing unless you recognize that there are two separate issues:

 

1) Bounties for big plays (as Darren Sharper explained, sacks, ints, passes defensed, FF, FR, etc)

2) Bounties with intent to injure

 

One of Greg(g) Williams' former players in the Washington Post article said: "You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits"

Another player said: "If you took the star player out, he'd hook you up a little bit," another player admitted, while also defending Williams.

 

When players are encouraged to take cheap shots outside the rules it is a big deal.

 

When players are monetarily encouraged by their coaches to have a disregard for the careers of other players, it is a big deal.

 

If this was simply about hitting people cleanly as hard as possible, it wouldn't be the issue that it is.

 

At this early juncture the bounty story does not sound to me like the promotion of clean play.

 

Gregg Williams' apology:

 

"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints," Williams said. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."

 

http://profootballta...rrible-mistake/

 

I'm not outraged or surprised.

But it's amazing to me that some people here think that there's no difference between playing hard and playing dirty… that there's no difference between a violent sport and a dirty sport.

 

Have you ever witnessed an NFL player "losing it" because he thought that the opponent was going for his knees and trying to take him out?

 

Pro football players accept the risks that come with playing the world's most dangerous sport.

 

They should never, nor should the fans, accept that the sport they play is dirty and that careers could end on a cheap shot encouraged by a coach.

 

If this is indeed part of the culture which now exists, it's yet another symptom of the decay of professional sports.

I'm not amazed at all. You visit this forum frequently enough to know that as well; immaturity reigns supreme around here.

 

That said -- great post, SJBF.

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While I'm sure this type of thing is fairly common around the league, that doesn't make it acceptable and when someone gets caught, like the Saints and Gregg Williams have, the league needs to make an example of them. The Saints need to lose several high draft picks over this, the ownership heavily fined, and the coaches involved should be banned. There's no place for this kind of garbage in a sporting event.

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The Saints have never struck me as a dirty team.

 

I'm trying to remember Williams' D in Washington.

They were extremely dirty -- as was tennesee. It's jeff fisher culture, who learned from the master of the bounty, buddy ryan. It's truly disgusting, and i'm gonna call out everyone here who thinks it's ok. It's really, really not. I mean, if robbery is rampant in a particular neighborhood, does it make it ok if "it goes on all the time"?

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As someone else mentioned, the Saints have no first round pick this year.

at a minimum, the league should take away their franchise tag for 2012 - sign Brees in the next week or he hits free agency

 

 

convenient how Williams is now on another team - so his suspension won't hurt the Saints

 

the league should force the Saints to use George Edwards as their DC in 2012

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Haven't read all the threads in awhile. I just found this as i was about to start a new one, so my comments are behind the conversation.

 

 

The NFL announced Friday that the Saints operated an improper bounty program that paid players as much as $1,500 for hits that injured opposing players.

 

The program, administered by Williams, also a former defensive coordinator there, paid $1500 for a “knockout” hit and $1000 if an opponent was carted off the field between 2009 and 2011, the NFL said. Most of the money was contributed by players, but Williams also donated to the fund.

 

What a slimeball, if true. I don't remember the Saints playing particularly dirty, but still.

 

 

Are coaches and teams allowed to pay players beyond the salaries reported to the NFL for salary cap etc.? The $$s don't compare, but isn't that a big deal too?

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While I'm sure this type of thing is fairly common around the league, that doesn't make it acceptable and when someone gets caught, like the Saints and Gregg Williams have, the league needs to make an example of them. The Saints need to lose several high draft picks over this, the ownership heavily fined, and the coaches involved should be banned. There's no place for this kind of garbage in a sporting event.

 

Why stop there, get rid of the entire franchise!

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Lots of players from other teams, past and present, are coming out saying this is no big deal.

 

The only people making it a big deal are: 1. The NFL, and 2. Sports Reporters.

 

The NFL has to make it a big deal as they are currently being sued by 700 players regarding injuries. The media has to make it a big deal because they need to fill time before Free Agency, in this lull of the offseason.

 

The only people that are "up in arms" about this stand to lose/benefit financially.

 

Dont be fooled into thinking this is to "protect the players" or because of some moral, "sportsmanship" high road.

 

The players know about this stuff and have never had a problem with it. It's only people that have a financial interest who care.

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Lots of players from other teams, past and present, are coming out saying this is no big deal.

 

The only people making it a big deal are: 1. The NFL, and 2. Sports Reporters.

 

The NFL has to make it a big deal as they are currently being sued by 700 players regarding injuries. The media has to make it a big deal because they need to fill time before Free Agency, in this lull of the offseason.

 

The only people that are "up in arms" about this stand to lose/benefit financially.

 

Dont be fooled into thinking this is to "protect the players" or because of some moral, "sportsmanship" high road.

 

The players know about this stuff and have never had a problem with it. It's only people that have a financial interest who care.

You are completely right. Anyone who thinks this is a uncommon thing in the locker rooms has their head buried in the sand.

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