RyanC883 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I do not doubt there is something to be said for simplifying a defense. But against the elite teams you better have a few wrinkles up your sleeve as well. Especially when it comes to your blitz packages. Otherwise you will be fine against some teams but the best ones will eat you up. My mindframe has always been the better the players you have the more you can complicate things. I would have been happier if I heard Nix say that he will bring players in who can play in an advanced system rather that talk about how he brought in a guy who will simplify things for the players he has. I agree. The Steelers and Balt seem to run complex D's, and make sure to get the players smart enough to comprehend the schemes. Basically, is Nix saying our D players are complete idiots? Also, if you simplyify things, you need to win a lot of one on one battles, i'm not sure we have the talent level for that other than Williams and Dearus. Perhaps CB Williams and LB Barnett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Gotta disagree, When things are so complicated no one plays well getting back to basics will do wonders for this team and you can bet that many of our players will become great when they don't a million things to think about. Also I'm quite sure they can get creative when need be which will be to our advantage as well in that instead of being reactive will be able to attack which is again a simple plan. I agree, they were losing a step or two flowing to the ball because they had a checklist of things to think about before running. This should be interesting to see if they play better this year. I'm optimistic we will see an improvement. At least the top half of defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 While some folks are slamming the coaching staff for the switch to the 4-3 I actually commend them.... They COULD have gotten stubborn about it and told Dave W. that he was going to run a 34 defense and live with it.....then keep trying to draft hybrid 34 players which we are having a hard time doing..... They didn't do that...they realized they have a very good DC who knows the 43 inside and out, admitted the mistake, and will now make the switch You just watch....this defense is going to be so much better next year..... - Darius and Williams will beast in the middle.....and we have guys on the roster in Spencer Johnson who are better suited to this defense anyway and will come in and be quality reserves. - Kelsay.....for all of the complaining we do about him......is a 8 sack a year DEFENSIVE END.....I am not really concerned about that position on the line because his play is adaquate just not all star....we brought in Moore last year who started for the bucs...he will be a quality reserve - Barnett will fill the OLB spot just fine......Shep will be just fine...... But we ARE going to need that DE pass rusher that QB's worry about on every down...that MUST be addressed. Then you will have Darius and Williams making QB's scared to step up into the pocket and that outside rusher will be forcing the action from the edge. Another good defensive draft.......we need one more to get back to respectability on defense....and as I have always said....fix this defense and you will also see the offense improve for several reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) - Kelsay.....for all of the complaining we do about him......is a 8 sack a year DEFENSIVE END....I am not really concerned about that position on the line because his play is adaquate just not all star....we brought in Moore last year who started for the bucs...he will be a quality reserve John...How can Kelsay be a 8 sack per year DE, when he has never even had 6 sacks in a season? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KelsCh21.htm Edited January 31, 2012 by LabattBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 There's nothing to "believe." Wannstedt is a proven DC, Edwards was/is not (he's probably not even a good LB'er coach). And they don't need to "completely retool" the defense and add a bunch of players over the off-season. The 3-4 was a failure since the majority of players were always best-suited for a 4-3, and the only player drafted from the past 2 years who might not have a role is Carrington. They still need a pass-rushing 4-3 DE and another OLB. Wannstedt hasn't coordinated a NFL defense since 1999, before NE won their first SB. A lot's changed since then, not the least of which is a league predicated on passing the ball. Meanwhile, the version 4-3 practiced by Wannstedt was one built to stop the run There's a cost to switching defenses 3 times in 4 years, and the built-in excuse is already there for 2012. And that is they needed to switch defense because their players were more suited to it. Troup, Carrington, and key 2010 UFA signing Edwards are all either backups or without a position. Blowing high picks and UFA dollars on guys who don't fit your scheme or will be backups is no way to ever build a team. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Exactly. What picks were really wasted on the 3-4? Its really not that big of a transition as the Bills never really made it to a 3-4 in the 2 years it kinda tried. Maybe Troup Maybe Carrington Although Carrington is big enough to maybe spell Dareus and Kyle Williams in the Middle of the 4-3 line. He'll be used in jumbo sets and because they already stand him on some plays at strong side LB, he could still be a strong side LB on running downs. So the Maybe is less with Carrington imo. Troup is a wasted pick mostly because he is not a good football player and can't stay healthy so it doesn't really matter what scheme we play. Shepp is another pick that has some ??? but only because of the lock-out, Who knew Barnett would sign with the Bills and be a freaking beast. Barnett is more of MLB than an OLB in a 3-4. So thats really the only area that we need to see how it will play out. I think Barnett may be able to play weakside OLB. I really don't know. If we had signed Barnett before the draft like we would have in a non-lockout year we could have drafted a Rusher like Justin Houston in the 3rd instead of Shepp. I keep looking at the 2011 draft and it was loaded with pass rushers from 1st round to 4th. Someone like Justin Houston would probably be a 2nd rounder in 2012 just because there are not as many pass rushers in the 2012 draft. And like usually, the Bills will have to reach in the 2nd or 3rd if they're going to fill out their DEs. The good thing is this year like most, we'll know if we signed any FAs before the draft. Which they're going to have to be major players in the DE and WR FA market if they want to improve in 2012. If they sit on their hand in the FAgency and take a nap at midnight then we'll know that we're in for another 7-9 season. It is that simple in my opinion. So tell me what u think about a player,,, ahh i don't know, say Justin Houston on the bills! How do u think he would fit as to say we never drafted ahhhhh lets say Shep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I hope now that ive explained all that... those who disagreed wont completely disagree anymore and thus allow you to now agree with those who disagreed while still agreeing on what we agreed upon. Agree? Looking to be a Buffalo DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Wannstedt hasn't coordinated a NFL defense since 1999, before NE won their first SB. A lot's changed since then, not the least of which is a league predicated on passing the ball. Meanwhile, the version 4-3 practiced by Wannstedt was one built to stop the run Wannstedt basically ran the Dols' defense when he was HC there from 2000-2004. There's a cost to switching defenses 3 times in 4 years, and the built-in excuse is already there for 2012. And that is they needed to switch defense because their players were more suited to it. Troup, Carrington, and key 2010 UFA signing Edwards are all either backups or without a position. Blowing high picks and UFA dollars on guys who don't fit your scheme or will be backups is no way to ever build a team. Ever. So the players are more suited to the 4-3 and they're switching back to it. Doesn't sound like much of a "cost" to me. Again as was discussed in earlier posts, Troup (if he can ever get healthy) can play DT, probably easier than he could play NT. Carrington and Edwards might not have roles, or they might, we don't know. Even if they don't, not a whole lot was lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Certainly a lack of talent is another reason but OBD indirectly confirms: http://blogs.buffalo...eeps-it-simple/ I do believe Perry Fewell had the same problem when he was here (though lack of talent was magnified). I think the Giants were ready to run him out of town until he simplified things: http://www.nj.com/gi...iants_defe.html Hopefully Wannstedt's leadership will give us a huge turnaround on defense next year. these conclusions are just wrong When the Bills were in a 3-4 they spend the majority of the time just lining up 3 on 5 and getting their butts kicked. there was no complicated zone blitzes or anything else needed to disguise the defense and confuse the offense. but good thing they brought in Wannstaft this year to turn things around too bad he wasn't here last year to offer his exeprtise oh wait - he was here last year stealing a paycheck can't understand why people think he won't be mailing it in this year too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Wannstedt basically ran the Dols' defense when he was HC there from 2000-2004. Basically? What was Jim Bates doing, twiddling his thumbs? So the players are more suited to the 4-3 and they're switching back to it. Doesn't sound like much of a "cost" to me. Again as was discussed in earlier posts, Troup (if he can ever get healthy) can play DT, probably easier than he could play NT. Carrington and Edwards might not have roles, or they might, we don't know. Even if they don't, not a whole lot was lost. Carrington will become the backup based end in their 43. He's not a pass rusher. Dwan Edwards is a 5 technique who's played that position the past 4 years, and even if he becomes a DT in their rotation, he'll backup Williams or Dareus. And we know the Bills aren't interested in paying backup linemen a couple million each year. But you're right, not a whole lot has been lost. They still have no one capable of rushing the QB, are missing at least 1 starting LB, and have another who is unproven at a key position (MLB). Edited February 1, 2012 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Basically? What was Jim Bates doing, twiddling his thumbs? Probably. Just like he has been the past couple years. Carrington will become the backup based end in their 43. He's not a pass rusher. Dwan Edwards is a 5 technique who's played that position the past 4 years, and even if he becomes a DT in their rotation, he'll backup Williams or Dareus. And we know the Bills aren't interested in paying backup linemen a couple million each year. But you're right, not a whole lot has been lost. They still have no one capable of rushing the QB, are missing at least 1 starting LB, and have another who is unproven at a key position (MLB). I see Carrington as a DT at best because he's 305# and as you said, not a pass-rusher and that's what you need (and what the Bills need) as a 4-3 DE. Edwards is a 3-4 end and probably gone. As for LB, I agree they need another starter and that Shep is unproven, but he's shown promise, and a full off-season and new scheme should help. I've said for years that moving to a 3-4 was a mistake and I'm happy that a) they're moving back to a 4-3 and b) a proven DC is taking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ahhh yes another Bills offseason. This scheme and DC change changes everything! Forget that the Bills have spent the last 2 drafts and FA signings attempting to switch to the 3-4. All it takes is the Stache in charge! Never mind that as asst. HC last season he should have had considerable input into the defense. I believe that Wannstedt is a better DC than G. Edwards will ever be and this switch is a good thing for the Bills. But to expect a complete turnaround simply because of this makes no sense (except to a contingent of impressively optimistic Bills fans I suppose). Now if they completely re-tool the D this offseason with several key strategic FA's and draft picks that is another matter altogether. But if it essentially the same players with a semi-new DC then I do not expect nearly as big of an impact as the OP is hoping for. I cannot agree more. Although I want the 'stache to succeed as much as anyone. In a what have you done for me lately league. Well, what has the 'stache done lately? Who exactly is accountable for this nightmare of a defense? Edwards sucked, but it wasn't entirely his fault. He didn't draft,or sign FA's. He was no more than a DC, his management included ownership, Nix, Gailey. And whatever responsibility The Assistant HEAD coach had. That would be Wannstedt. At this point who knows if he's part of the problem or the solution. Nix drafting somewhat for a 34 for 2 years, then giving up doesn't leave anyone with a warm and fuzzy feeling about this organizations ability to draft.That problem has been going on for many years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 John...How can Kelsay be a 8 sack per year DE, when he has never even had 6 sacks in a season? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KelsCh21.htm This is the offseason, where we forget about problems, marginal players become great, injuries won't happen, and deep rooted organizational issues can be fixed with an internal promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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