Vikings will listen for trades....

[#34fan]

And IF they are wrong you just flushed the franchise for the next 5 years. RGIII better throw 7 TDs a game because our D will be giving up at least 6 a game.

 

 

After the past twelve seasons, I could totally live with that. -Gamble big, win big.

Edited January 29, 2012 by #34fan

[1billsfan]

I would offer our 1st, 2nd and next year's 1st as a one time take it or leave it offer.

 

Considering that last year the Falcons moved up 20 spots with their 1st, 2nd and 4th picks in 2011 and their 1st and 4th picks in 2012, I think ours would be a fair offer without going overboard for one player.

Edited January 29, 2012 by 1billsfan

[#34fan]

I would offer our 1st, 2nd and next year's 1st as a one time take it or leave it offer.

 

Considering that last year the Falcons moved up 20 spots with their 1st, 2nd and 4th picks in 2011 and their 1st and 4th picks in 2012, I think ours would be a fair offer without going overboard for one player.

 

This would definitely show that we're serious about becoming playoff contenders.

 

-Next years 1st sounds kinda steep, though.

Edited January 30, 2012 by #34fan

[Buftex]

I agree with you 100%. Not audibilizing away from the 4th and 1 handoff to Fred down inside their 20 when the Jets had the line stacked in the home game against them, after we had already taken a timeout was pure stupidity. (a QB sneak was the call right there)

 

Worse than that, the guy is just not that good. And what upside does he really have? Someone explain to me why my thinking is wrong. I want to believe in our starting QB, but after watching him the past couple of seasons, I come to the conclusion that he is a solid backup at best on his good days.

 

 

Actually, on his good days, he is a better than average starting NFL QB. It is the Bills brainstrust job to ensure that he has more good days than bad.

[PDaDdy]

Do we do it

 

Who would pull the trigger and to get RGIII?

 

We have literally one of the worst defenses in the league statistically. Why would we trade up to draft a QB when it isn't anywhere near one of our biggest needs? Who would they throw to? Who would protect their backside?

[1billsfan]

We have literally one of the worst defenses in the league statistically. Why would we trade up to draft a QB when it isn't anywhere near one of our biggest needs? Who would they throw to? Who would protect their backside?

 

Because the league is quickly becoming a heavily offensive driven league. Yes the Giants, San Fran and Ravens have very good defenses but they are the exception. The QBs are breaking records like nobodies business.

 

I don't think defense matters half as much as it did in the old days. What good is having a great defensive player when the NFL rules are so slanted towards the offense?

 

The other reason is that the Bills have a good young base of talented defensive players to build off of with remaining draft picks and free agents. I think if the bills did get RG III, you'd find good defensive free agent players wanting to come here.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Trading up a pick or 2 is one thing, jumping up to number 3 from 10 with the point system is dumb

the # 3 pick is worth 2200

 

R1p10 = 1300

R2p42= 480

R3p74= 220

R4p106= 82

R5p138= 37

R6p170= 23.4

R7p202= 10.6

Our entire Draft = 2153

 

We would have to package in next years first round draft our one of our best players to achieve this sort of like the Cutler or Ricky Williams trade.....just stupidity

 

Tom Brady and Terrell Davis were only worth 23.4 points!

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA.. silly point system.

[PDaDdy]

Because the league is quickly becoming a heavily offensive driven league. Yes the Giants, San Fran and Ravens have very good defenses but they are the exception. The QBs are breaking records like nobodies business.

 

I don't think defense matters half as much as it did in the old days. What good is having a great defensive player when the NFL rules are so slanted towards the offense?

 

The other reason is that the Bills have a good young base of talented defensive players to build off of with remaining draft picks and free agents. I think if the bills did get RG III, you'd find good defensive free agent players wanting to come here.

 

Sorry. It doesn't work like that. The league has become more offense heavy yes. ALL QBs have benefited from this not just the "franchise" QBs. Can you define statistically what a franchise QB looks like? TDs? INTs? Completion percentage? Yards? QB rating (old or new version)? Once you answer those questions you will find your answer. Franchise QBs are as much a product of the talent around them, the scheme they are in and the support given to them as they are born.

 

Franchise QB by most peoples estimation Drew Brees had 4, repeat FOUR, of his offensive lineman playing in the probowl. He had his TE playing in the probowl and who knows who else on a team with a defense that is light years ahead of ours on the other side of the ball. Do you think the talent around a QB has an impact on the less observant fan's assessment of their value?

 

I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO DEFINE WHAT A FRANCHISE QB IS WITH NUMBERS? Nobody has accepted the challenge to date. You know why? Because then they can't B word about not having one. They will then either realize that almost none exist in the league or people that they whine about not being franchise really are.

Edited January 30, 2012 by PDaDdy

[1billsfan]

Sorry. It doesn't work like that. The league has become more offense heavy yes. ALL QBs have benefited from this not just the "franchise" QBs. Can you define statistically what a franchise QB looks like? TDs? INTs? Completion percentage? Yards? QB rating (old or new version)? Once you answer those questions you will find your answer. Franchise QBs are as much a product of the talent around them, the scheme they are in and the support given to them as they are born.

 

Franchise QB by most peoples estimation Drew Brees had 4, repeat FOUR, of his offensive lineman playing in the probowl. He had his TE playing in the probowl and who knows who else on a team with a defense that is light years ahead of ours on the other side of the ball. Do you think the talent around a QB has an impact on the less observant fan's assessment of their value?

 

I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU TO DEFINE WHAT A FRANCHISE QB IS WITH NUMBERS? Nobody has accepted the challenge to date. You know why? Because then they can't B word about not having one. They will then either realize that almost none exist in the league or people that they whine about not being franchise really are.

 

 

No need to get upset. I like Ryan Fitzpatrick. But if we've learned anything since Kelly left the stage years and years ago, it's that franchise QBs are very special players. It's been about 17 years since this franchise had one.

 

No need to put numbers on it, we all know who the franchise QBs are in this league...Brady, Brees, Rodgers. In the past...Kelly, Elway, Marino, Montana, Aikman, Warner, Favre, Young, Moon...these are franchise QBs.

 

I'm not knocking Fitzpatrick, but he's 29 years old and he didn't look good the second part of the season. That's not a hopeful sign to me regardless of the injuries. I truly think he could win a Superbowl if everything fell right for this team, but that's a one shot type deal. I want the Bills to be like the Patriots and be there at the end every year.

[RyanC883]

Not gonna argue to vehemently with you, and I to have lost some confidence that was already shaky

with Fitz to begin with. He did have some pretty horrible fau paux's this season, but he also had

some pretty amazing moments.

 

He did some really good things with basically a thinning and not very intimidating to beign with

recieving corp.I think the big thing is that he just lost his confidence,I look at Fitz as a system

type player, sort of along the line of Sanchez, and should never really be the focus of the offense,

but rather the field general.

 

I think that we all agree that he is a likeable enough guy, actually from some of the things that

I have read about him, more than likeable, and when compared with the average athelete attitude of today,

he is downright refreshing. So, if they can surround him with the right weapons, and keep him reigned in a bit,

I am very comfortable with him being our short to mid term starting QB, and we do have other more pressing needs.

More concerned with the quality of our back-ups.

 

I would currently take Fitz over any of the following NFL Staring QB's:

 

-Alex Smith SF Agree

-Matt Cassel KC I'd take Cassel.

-Carson Palmer/Jason Campbell Radaz I'd take either.

-Tim Tebow Den Guy wins games and is young. Took team to playoffs. Fitz collapsed, and is older.

-Sanchez Jets Agree

-Freeman TB (Toss-Up)Agree

-Matt Moore MiaMoore was better than Fitz last year.

-Colt McCoy Clev Disagree. Although, I would not want McCoy long term either

-Whoever the Indy QB was (excluding Manning of course)Did Indy have a QB last year?

-Matt Hassleback Tenn Not a good comparison. Hassleback is at the end of his carrear. But since Fitz is not a legit starter/long term solution, I would go with Hassleback for a year or two.

-Gabbert Jax How can you say Pro Bowl Dalton is not good enough because he does not have a large enough body of work, and not say the same thing for Gabbert. That said, I would not want Gabbert.

-Dalton Cin (had a nice year, not enough body of work) Would def take Dalton. Pro Bowl Rookie who can throw the ball downfield > carrear backup.

-Flacco (would be a very tough call, roghly same age) Not even a close call. Flacco can throw the ball long, led game winning drive vs. Steelers. 4 years as a pro, 4 playoff berths.

-Can't remeber the Seattle QB(s) so that makes my case there. Agreed

-Arizona all of them Agreed.

-Grossman Wash I'd take Grossman. He can throw the ball. He is prone to stupidity at times, but can also win games. If he's our QB, I think we make the playoffs last year.

-Romo I'd take Romo.

 

That puts him into the top half of the leauge anyhow, IMHO!

Fire away!

 

A bold post, but wow, your nuts! See my comments in bold. Also, I'd like to see the Bills get Dennis Dixon from the Steelers in FA. I think he could give Fitz a run at the starting job.

Edited January 30, 2012 by RyanC883

[BuffaloBillsSD]

Tom Brady and Terrell Davis were only worth 23.4 points!

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA.. silly point system.

 

so cherry picking two rare cases invalidates the entire system?

[hmsmystic]

You guys are over-estimating our capacity to do draft day moves. The Bills braintrust is so confident in their scouting that we generally ignore outside consensus on round status and haven't pulled the trigger on a draft day trade in awhile.

Heck I remember the Spiller pick- our guy was running to stage with the pick the second the prior pick was announced. We didn't even take a few minutes to listen to offers.

[PDaDdy]

No need to get upset. I like Ryan Fitzpatrick. But if we've learned anything since Kelly left the stage years and years ago, it's that franchise QBs are very special players. It's been about 17 years since this franchise had one.

 

No need to put numbers on it, we all know who the franchise QBs are in this league...Brady, Brees, Rodgers. In the past...Kelly, Elway, Marino, Montana, Aikman, Warner, Favre, Young, Moon...these are franchise QBs.

 

I'm not knocking Fitzpatrick, but he's 29 years old and he didn't look good the second part of the season. That's not a hopeful sign to me regardless of the injuries. I truly think he could win a Superbowl if everything fell right for this team, but that's a one shot type deal. I want the Bills to be like the Patriots and be there at the end every year.

 

This is sort of my point. Nobody can define a franchise QB so therefore nobody can AGREE on what a franchise QB is. Basically you gave 12 QBs in the last 18 or so years. See what I mean? You only listed 3 Franchise QBs that are currently playing in the league. Rodgers and Brees are currently going to be watching the superbowl from home because they were beaten by good defenses or at least defenses that played REALLY well that day. Look at the talent and teams those guys have around them? I watched the probowl. Brady and Rogers have lineman in the probowl and have probowl WRs/TEs playing with them. Most if not all had offensive lineman in the probowl. Drew Brees in particular had 4 repeat FOUR of his offensive lineman playing at one point in the probowl.

 

When Fitz has even close to that level of talent around him then we can make a decision whether he is good enough or not. Fitz is 29. Give the guy an actual off season, OTA and training camp, keep his WRs, his LTs and Center healthy and we'll see the performance from him we saw through week 6 when he was the best QB in the league and the Bills had the best record in the league.

 

Our team is rebuilding. You trade up for a first round pick to try to get a QB to put on the bench to groom. You move up for a slam dunk franchise starter. Let's address this teams TRUE and much BIGGER problems first and you will see we can be a much better team without panicking about our signal caller.

 

You guys are over-estimating our capacity to do draft day moves. The Bills braintrust is so confident in their scouting that we generally ignore outside consensus on round status and haven't pulled the trigger on a draft day trade in awhile.

Heck I remember the Spiller pick- our guy was running to stage with the pick the second the prior pick was announced. We didn't even take a few minutes to listen to offers.

 

Why would we? Best player available at a position of need given Lynches impending exist and Jackson being over 30.

[HeHateMe]

The Bills have been mediocre for a decade +, never getting that really high pick to pick an elite game changer or blowing a high pick on trash. They probably should try to make a trade to move up but they surely won't - Not with the brains running this team. We will pick where slotted the entire draft, unfortunately.

 

This Franchise needs to make a bold move to get out of the basement and somehow bring in a real QB. Fitz is absolutely not the guy. What will this be, his 7th year? Look at his stats, win %, or his play on the field. Nothing there convinces me he will ever be the QB that this team needs to win and ultimately win a SB.

 

This is a QB driven league now and will be even more so in the future. Look at the 2 defenses in the SB this year, terrible all year long with a late push by the Giants D.

 

Stop referencing Dilfer winning a SB... That team had one of the greatest defenses of all time and that was over ten years ago.

 

Also, Gailey is an offensive mind who loves to have his QB throw. Bring in a QB! Just because Fitz is marginally better than JP/Edwards/Insert trash QB/ he is just another mediocre player at the most important position in the game.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

so cherry picking two rare cases invalidates the entire system?

 

Jamal Anderson

Shannon Sharpe

Jay Novacek

Matt Birk

Donald Driver

Marques Colston

 

...and these are just the great players that were found in the lowest rounds of the draft, not mentioning the good players, the role players, the foundations of teams. The point system is merely a GUIDE and not an absolute; to make it absolute would be inane. Some teams choose to pick for need over ability, and there must be room for those situations. Certain teams with excellent scouting departments and wily GMs will pull the trigger on 'supposed' head-scratching moves when they are acting on a great plan. This is why Mel Kiper becomes more irrelevant as the years pass- sometimes teams may actually know what in the heck they are doing despite his noise and huff-n-puff on camera.

[PDaDdy]

The Bills have been mediocre for a decade +, never getting that really high pick to pick an elite game changer or blowing a high pick on trash. They probably should try to make a trade to move up but they surely won't - Not with the brains running this team. We will pick where slotted the entire draft, unfortunately.

 

This Franchise needs to make a bold move to get out of the basement and somehow bring in a real QB. Fitz is absolutely not the guy. What will this be, his 7th year? Look at his stats, win %, or his play on the field. Nothing there convinces me he will ever be the QB that this team needs to win and ultimately win a SB.

 

This is a QB driven league now and will be even more so in the future. Look at the 2 defenses in the SB this year, terrible all year long with a late push by the Giants D.

 

Stop referencing Dilfer winning a SB... That team had one of the greatest defenses of all time and that was over ten years ago.

 

Also, Gailey is an offensive mind who loves to have his QB throw. Bring in a QB! Just because Fitz is marginally better than JP/Edwards/Insert trash QB/ he is just another mediocre player at the most important position in the game.

 

You have absolutely no clue. How do you explain his league leading performance through week 6 and the Bills with the best record in the NFL until the injuries started to pile up like a train wreck? What? No answer? Thought so! Stop looking at QB in a vacuum and realize that there needs to be a whole team and support group around them for them to be successful.

 

Look at the numbers. Fitz is light years away from those guys in yards and TDs. Compare them to our last messiah that people are so desperately waiting for his replacement. Kelly had killer WRs and more than just Thurman Thomas around him. He had a line with probowlers and great players. Currently?...EXACTLY!

Edited January 30, 2012 by PDaDdy

[PDaDdy]

Haven't really run through all of the posts, though I imagine this has devolved into a "should the Bills draft a QB" thread, instead of a "should the Bills do what it takes to get the number 3 overall pick". The Vikings are in a great position, and I imagine they will ask for everything and more if they are to give up the number 3 pick. Especially given the fact that the new rookie wage scale no longer curses teams who have a top 5 pick. I also expect RGIII to be hyped to a point where people will starting writing columns over whether or not the Colts should take him instead of Andrew Luck. The guy's measurables will be that good.

 

Now to the Bills. If given the opportunity to get RGIII, they need to pull the trigger. It will take 3 high picks, probably 2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder (if not more) to even get in the conversation, but at least IMO, it would be worth it. RGIII can transform a franchise. He is, from all accounts, a high character guy who would thrive in a city like Buffalo, whereupon hard work and humility outweigh celebrity. Not to say his celebrity won't matter. For whoever thought that Newton could be the face of a franchise (in terms of off the field marketability), RGIII will likely eclipse that. And make no mistake, the Bills could really use a face. Right now, for anyone outside of Buffalo, our team is essentially a bunch of no-names. There is Stevie of course, but w/ all due respect to his successes, I would argue that he is known for reasons that are exclusive of his good performances on the field. Anyways, my larger point is, RG III would be a huge upgrade at QB, but he would also be a huge asset for a team that is in dire need of transformative player. Especially given the fact that the team could be on the market in the next 1-3 years.

 

Let me guess your financial plan for your future is buying lottery tickets and scratch offs in bulk?

Edited January 30, 2012 by PDaDdy

[Ramius]

Fitz's performance over the first 7 games of the season shows he's capable of winning a super bowl. Yes, he needs to be more consistent, but there is talent there. During that stretch, the Bills played well enough to beat anyone in the league. And given the past few seasons as a reference, the teams that have had the most post season success have been the teams playing the best ball in december. If the Bills upgrade and improve the team enough to reach the playoffs, Fitz has shown he is capable of playing at a high enough level to win it all.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The just drafted Ponder last year, but Carolina took Cam right after they took Clausen. I think its possible they draft RG3. They'd be stupid not too.Ponder showed flashes but RG3 will be a star.

 

If they trade anyone it should be Ponder. Add RG3 with AP and Percey Harvin, and all of the sudden Minnesota is a d coordinator problem.

[Best Player Available]

A bold post, but wow, your nuts! See my comments in bold. Also, I'd like to see the Bills get Dennis Dixon from the Steelers in FA. I think he could give Fitz a run at the starting job.

wonder what kind of money Dixon is looking for? He would be a upgrade over Thigpen at the least.