atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Kinda struck me reading the article today in our local paper the AtlantaJournalConstitution AJC. Nolan who has been primarly versed in the 3-4 was hired by Mike Smith(primarly a 4-3 coach) and the falcons. In the article it states that Nolan will stick with the 4-3 but work in the 3-4 and use a good mixture of both. Maybe the Bills and Falcons realize that Dfenses are constantly evolving? There really is no such thing as a 'base' defense anymore. Due to rules and offenses you have to throw multiple looks at the opposition to keep them guessing? I know many of us are a little hesitant(and for good reason) to believe the bills maybe be frontrunners. But when i see an orgination like ATL making similar moves, it give sme faith...by that i mean Arthur Blank is commited to winning and does not mind spending to due so. Edited January 18, 2012 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Kinda struck me reading the article today in our local paper the AtlantaJournalConstitution AJC. Nolan who has been primarly versed in the 3-4 was hired by Mike Smith(primarly a 4-3 coach) and the falcons. In the article it states that Nolan will stick with the 4-3 but work in the 3-4 and use a good mixture of both. Maybe the Bills and Falcons realize that Dfenses are constantly evolving? There really is no such thing as a 'base' defense anymore. Due to rules and offenses you have to throw multiple looks at the opposition to keep them guessing? I know many of us are a little hesitant(and for good reason) to believe the bills maybe be frontrunners. But when i see an orgination like ATL making similar moves, it give sme faith...by that i mean Arthur Blank is commited to winning and does not mind spending to due so. you can do both but you need a base because the players for each are totally different in the front 7. Unless we are seeing the beginning of a new style of defense that just has a nose or DTS with a bunch of rushers, 1 linebacker and nickel and dime secondaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 No. This report must be erroneous. The Bills will be a strictly 4-3 team next year because that's all Dave Wannstedt has ever coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 yeah, how will that work. Anyone cite me an a example of success. It can't work. Can't have it both ways. You can't play either at a high level. How do you staff a defense? At least if you're one or the other, you can staff it with players that provide depth. When you run a hybrid, how do you provide depth? If you lose one of your star 3-4 linebackers, what do you do, carry a 3-4 linebacker or a 4-3 linebacker, or, do you carry a 4-3 DE? How do you draft, and what do you tell free agents? What players can play at a high level in both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 yeah, how will that work. Anyone cite me an a example of success. It can't work. Can't have it both ways. You can't play either at a high level. How do you staff a defense? At least if you're one or the other, you can staff it with players that provide depth. When you run a hybrid, how do you provide depth? If you lose one of your star 3-4 linebackers, what do you do, carry a 3-4 linebacker or a 4-3 linebacker, or, do you carry a 4-3 DE? How do you draft, and what do you tell free agents? What players can play at a high level in both? All right, I'll give this a shot. 3-4 NT also plays 4-3 DT, as does the 3-4 DE. 3-4 OLB also lines up at 4-3 DE. 3-4 SILB aslo lines up at 4-3 MLB, and 3-4 WILB also plays 4-3 OLB. That being said, I'm with you. I want Wannstedt to turn us to a 4-3 team, period. I'm just waiting for somebody at OBD to tell us what's going to happen. No. This report must be erroneous. The Bills will be a strictly 4-3 team next year because that's all Dave Wannstedt has ever coached. Do you have any inside information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 yeah, how will that work. Anyone cite me an a example of success. It can't work. Can't have it both ways. You can't play either at a high level. How do you staff a defense? At least if you're one or the other, you can staff it with players that provide depth. When you run a hybrid, how do you provide depth? If you lose one of your star 3-4 linebackers, what do you do, carry a 3-4 linebacker or a 4-3 linebacker, or, do you carry a 4-3 DE? How do you draft, and what do you tell free agents? What players can play at a high level in both? Really the key is one or two really dynamic players (think Suggs and ngata) to run the hybrid very effectively. We have dareus and even Williams on the inside that can slide around, but do not have the talent outside (de/olb) to effectively get a pass rush with a hand in the dirt or roaming. I know the first thing you'll say is "but what when they get hurt?" well, you lose a probowl pass rusher ever and you'll have to reevaluate scheme and make adjustments. Odds are the depth goes more towards the coaches comfort zone to make up for uncomfortable talent losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 yeah, how will that work. Anyone cite me an a example of success. It can't work. Can't have it both ways. You can't play either at a high level. How do you staff a defense? At least if you're one or the other, you can staff it with players that provide depth. When you run a hybrid, how do you provide depth? If you lose one of your star 3-4 linebackers, what do you do, carry a 3-4 linebacker or a 4-3 linebacker, or, do you carry a 4-3 DE? How do you draft, and what do you tell free agents? What players can play at a high level in both? The Bengals did okay with that (#7 in NFL)...the Cardinals werre #18. Base defenses in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The Bengals did okay with that...not sure about the Cardinals. Base defenses in the NFL NE is supposedly a base 3-4 team and ran a ton of 4-3 this year. Its the way the league is moving. Why would you not want versatility in your scheme? People need to move past what the base is and realize many teams spend more time in the nickel than anything else due to the volume of passing in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I don't care if it's a 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 1-6, or any other damn thing....JUST MAKE THE DEFENSE BETTER!!!!!!!! It all began with Bledsoe, we had a great offense with himf or a season and the Defense couldn't stop anyone, then the Defense was really good for a year or two and the Offense was terrible....JUST PUT THE TWO TOGETHER FOR PETE'S SAKE!!! Call it whatever you want, just get both going in the direction of success.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 NE is supposedly a base 3-4 team and ran a ton of 4-3 this year. Its the way the league is moving. Why would you not want versatility in your scheme? People need to move past what the base is and realize many teams spend more time in the nickel than anything else due to the volume of passing in this league. agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 No. This report must be erroneous. The Bills will be a strictly 4-3 team next year because that's all Dave Wannstedt has ever coached. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82620647/article/new-coordinator-nolan-thinks-falcons-can-soar-with-43-defense FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. -- Mike Nolan has no plans to switch the Atlanta Falcons to a 3-4 scheme in his first year as defensive coordinator. During job discussions earlier this week with coach Mike Smith, Nolan agreed that the Falcons were better suited to stay with a 4-3, which deploys four linemen and three linebackers, instead of switching to his preferred 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82620647/article/new-coordinator-nolan-thinks-falcons-can-soar-with-43-defense FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. -- Mike Nolan has no plans to switch the Atlanta Falcons to a 3-4 scheme in his first year as defensive coordinator. During job discussions earlier this week with coach Mike Smith, Nolan agreed that the Falcons were better suited to stay with a 4-3, which deploys four linemen and three linebackers, instead of switching to his preferred 3-4. Lalalalala I can't hear you la la la la Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I don't care if it's a 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 1-6, or any other damn thing....JUST MAKE THE DEFENSE BETTER!!!!!!!! It all began with Bledsoe, we had a great offense with himf or a season and the Defense couldn't stop anyone, then the Defense was really good for a year or two and the Offense was terrible....JUST PUT THE TWO TOGETHER FOR PETE'S SAKE!!! Call it whatever you want, just get both going in the direction of success.... :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Lalalalala I can't hear you la la la la Nolan would have been a great get for us. Oh well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82620647/article/new-coordinator-nolan-thinks-falcons-can-soar-with-43-defense FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. -- Mike Nolan has no plans to switch the Atlanta Falcons to a 3-4 scheme in his first year as defensive coordinator. During job discussions earlier this week with coach Mike Smith, Nolan agreed that the Falcons were better suited to stay with a 4-3, which deploys four linemen and three linebackers, instead of switching to his preferred 3-4. All well and good, but what does Wannstadt think of our defensive personnel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 NE is supposedly a base 3-4 team and ran a ton of 4-3 this year. Its the way the league is moving. Why would you not want versatility in your scheme? People need to move past what the base is and realize many teams spend more time in the nickel than anything else due to the volume of passing in this league. Other than New England allowing the second-most passing yards in NFL history, how did their hybrid defense work out for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) NE is supposedly a base 3-4 team and ran a ton of 4-3 this year. Its the way the league is moving. Why would you not want versatility in your scheme? People need to move past what the base is and realize many teams spend more time in the nickel than anything else due to the volume of passing in this league. Actually NE switched to a base 4-3 this year, I don't know if they ran much if any 3-4 looks... Either way, that defense was awful as could be, not something you want to emulate. And not just the scheme, but Bellicheck has butchered the talent level on that defense through excessive trading and botched draft picks...No one ever seems to call him out on it though... My personal opinion on the subject is that it's one thing for a team to use "other looks" to throw offenses off, but its a whole other deal to run two completely different schemes. People like to think that players are interchangeable between schemes, I disagree...Kelsay for instance, decent DE, awful OLB. 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB are similar but not the same. While ILB's/MLB's may be more interchangeable, 4-3 OLB's dont really fit in a 3-4 scheme, IMO. If a team were to pull off a "no scheme" defense, they would have to be pretty deep. The Bills are obviously not very deep. They have to get good at one thing, before they can be good at many things...It must also be tough to develop young players if they are constantly being forced into different positions and schemes. Edited January 19, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 yeah, how will that work. Anyone cite me an a example of success. It can't work. Can't have it both ways. You can't play either at a high level. How do you staff a defense? At least if you're one or the other, you can staff it with players that provide depth. When you run a hybrid, how do you provide depth? If you lose one of your star 3-4 linebackers, what do you do, carry a 3-4 linebacker or a 4-3 linebacker, or, do you carry a 4-3 DE? How do you draft, and what do you tell free agents? What players can play at a high level in both? funny how the pats* got away with that stuff for so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Other than New England allowing the second-most passing yards in NFL history, how did their hybrid defense work out for them? The funny part - theyve been running 34 less and less. Nearly not at all anymore. Hardly a hybrid this year. Maybe they missed those looks though, if you want to arbitrarily point at their shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 All well and good, but what does Wannstadt think of our defensive personnel? ^ This is what really matters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) ^ This is what really matters... Thats what I would like to here too. Even though its obvious that the Bills have no 3-4 OLBs and no 4-3 DEs. Which is kinda the biggest decision point for your "base D" The Bills can easily switch to whatever scheme you want. It's not like the Bills defense has any established players at LB or 4-3 DE that are key pieces either scheme. You can turn over the whole LB squad with the exception of Barnett and you'd be hard pressed to do worse than the crew that currently pretends to play LB for the Bills today. Edited January 19, 2012 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 All defenses are hybrid. Sports Illustrated had a good articles about the bears 4/3 Cover Two defense the week prior to their last appearance in the super bowl. According to the article, the bears were only in the 4/3 47% of the time. It was their base defense, but they adjusted based on down, distance, score, etc. I don't think the bills are too concerned with labeling their defense on thing or the other. I do hope however, that their defense improves next year. I could care less with their defense is called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) All defenses are hybrid. Sports Illustrated had a good articles about the bears 4/3 Cover Two defense the week prior to their last appearance in the super bowl. According to the article, the bears were only in the 4/3 47% of the time. It was their base defense, but they adjusted based on down, distance, score, etc. I don't think the bills are too concerned with labeling their defense on thing or the other. I do hope however, that their defense improves next year. I could care less with their defense is called. True about the % of plays in a specific set, but most of the rest of that time was likely nickle, goal line, short yardage, prevent, dime, punt/fg D, ect....Not 3-4. All teams will have this stuff. The Bears are very clearly a base 4-3. I would say they are far from being considered a "hybrid" defense I think as Why So Serious pointed out, the Bill's roster has holes that could be filled and tweaked for whatever scheme Wanny thinks we should run. But eventually they will probably pick and stick to a scheme. Clearly OUR hybrid defense did not work... Edited January 19, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 True about the % of plays in a specific set, but most of the rest of that time was likely Nickle, Goal line, short yardage, prevent, punt/fg D, ect....Not 3-4. All teams will have this stuff. The Bears are very clearly a base 4-3. I would say they are far from being considered a "hybrid" defense I think as Why So Serious pointed out, the Bill's roster has holes that could be filled and tweaked for whatever scheme Wanny thinks we should run. But eventually they will probably pick and stick to a scheme. Clearly OUR hybrid defense did not work... I wish they would. I think it would be easier for our young players s transition to the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82620647/article/new-coordinator-nolan-thinks-falcons-can-soar-with-43-defense FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. -- Mike Nolan has no plans to switch the Atlanta Falcons to a 3-4 scheme in his first year as defensive coordinator. During job discussions earlier this week with coach Mike Smith, Nolan agreed that the Falcons were better suited to stay with a 4-3, which deploys four linemen and three linebackers, instead of switching to his preferred 3-4. I saw this too, but in the AJC righ tafter he was hired Mike Smith was qouted saying they wil run both fronts. They may have backe doff that a little, but i gaurantee you will see a lot of different fronts from ATL next year....and hopefully the Bills too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The fans are only ones teeth gnashing over the "base" defense. As was stated above, at least half of your defensive snaps contain 5/6 DBs, so the concept of a "base" defense goes out the window. Good players can play in any scheme. Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus can play and would excel in a 4-3 or a 3-4. Nick Barnett coudl play MLB in either. Get good players, and then you can fit them to whatever the situation deems necessary. You don't need to have a player at position X be at size Y to successfully run a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 agree 100%. Are you sure it's not 99% agreement? Though the point you are in agreement with is a good one. I think the situation is driven by the fact the game has evolved into a passing game with the pass setting the stage to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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