CBD Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 What decent OLB wants to have his edge set by Spencer Johnson? Wouldn't the OLB be replacing Spencer Johnson and be the the one setting the edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I bet our offsason fa signings are backups from other teams to give us depth at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 CAT. Well, I'll wait and see, wait for the draft. I will be happy to build the O-line and D-line. Agreed, though both lines are solid up the middle. The outside (DE/OT)could use some help. But even there, the roster--as is--isn't entirely hopeless. For once, the trenches aren't a TOTAL liability. Wouldn't the OLB be replacing Spencer Johnson and be the the one setting the edge? Can we set the record straight? Has Johnson ACTUALLY played OLB? Has he played a single snap standing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 You can agreee with yourself all you want but Merriman is nowhere near done. Agreed. He may or may not be successful, but they are absolutely going to give him another chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Can we set the record straight? Has Johnson ACTUALLY played OLB? Has he played a single snap standing up? He is listed as the starting OLB, and indeed has been starting there. 34OLBs do not always, or even usually, play standing up. A 34 looks very much like a 43, or even a 52 if both OLBs are down, which happens much more often than OLBs standing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Wouldn't the OLB be replacing Spencer Johnson and be the the one setting the edge? Yes. "maddenboy" is aptly named for his football knowledge, apparently. Spencer Johnson is a fine 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE. It's not his fault the coaching staff has stuck him out of posititon as an OLB. And just stop with all this FA's don't want to come to Buffalo. That's BS. They go where they can play and where they get paid. Man, I guess I am glad I don't live in Buffalo anymore - it's clear something about living there puts a nagative spin on everything. The poll on the Bills someone ran a few weeks back really said it all. Most of the grumpy haters were the locals. The spin from ex-pats like myself was far more positive on average. Too bad - was just there in October, and it's really a beautiful place as far as I'm concerned. Can we set the record straight? Has Johnson ACTUALLY played OLB? Has he played a single snap standing up? He certainly is playing a lot in space - backpedalling into a zone or sliding for run defense far more than a DE ever would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 He is listed as the starting OLB, and indeed has been starting there. 34OLBs do not always, or even usually, play standing up. A 34 looks very much like a 43, or even a 52 if both OLBs are down, which happens much more often than OLBs standing up. Yes. "maddenboy" is aptly named for his football knowledge, apparently. Spencer Johnson is a fine 4-3 DT or 3-4 DE. It's not his fault the coaching staff has stuck him out of posititon as an OLB. And just stop with all this FA's don't want to come to Buffalo. That's BS. They go where they can play and where they get paid. Man, I guess I am glad I don't live in Buffalo anymore - it's clear something about living there puts a nagative spin on everything. The poll on the Bills someone ran a few weeks back really said it all. Most of the grumpy haters were the locals. The spin from ex-pats like myself was far more positive on average. Too bad - was just there in October, and it's really a beautiful place as far as I'm concerned. He certainly is playing a lot in space - backpedalling into a zone or sliding for run defense far more than a DE ever would. Thanks, gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Nobody knows whats going thru RW's mind about his team, I suspect black Monday will come and go without to much fuss at OBD. My questions are do they go forward with the same DC, the same S&C coaches? Do they finally upgrade the O line around Wood & Levitre? Do they finally find a pass rusher ....one that can stay healthy the entire year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Stevie's asking price: http://wgr550.com/Source--Stevie-Johnson-s-Asking-Price-to-Bills---7/11853952 Sounds VERY reasonable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) What decent OLB wants to have his edge set by Spencer Johnson? Spence is actually not bad on the line, the problem is you've been seeing him play as an OLB. He's too big and slow to be an OLB, but because of injuries we played him and Carrington out there. spence can play a 3-4 DE well enough, not OLB though. 5th round wrs are better than 4th round OTs. What?!?!?! My point about 5th round wrs is that after about the 3rd round, you dont find good Offensive Tackles, but you can find good wrs in almost every round. So when OP said to draft wr, then later an OT, I was saying that he had it backward. Wouldn't the OLB be replacing Spencer Johnson and be the the one setting the edge? On passing downs, i'm pretty sure its the DE who sets the edge for the OLB to run around. I'm assuming that OLBs want to go to teams where they can pressure the quarterback. Sure, on rushing plays, maybe the olb, especially the LOLB, might have to set an edge to drive traffic back inside. Edited December 29, 2011 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Based on the Bills track record and their "cash to cap" directive, don't expect the Bills to sign any significant free agents in the off season. 1) I think the majority of us can agree, Merriman & McGee are finished, an their release should free up about $11M cap bucks. That alone ought to be enough to extend Fred a year or two and give Steve Johnson about $7M. 2) FREE AGENCY. I would expect the Bills will bring in one healthy, experienced OLB (of the backup variety) and a mid level wr with the ability to stretch the D. In fairness to Batten, it was essentially his rookie season without any offseason tutoring. Same with Moats, his second season, and no offseason tutoring. 3) DRAFT. Bills need a "plug and play" guy that can immendiately step right in from day one and make an impact, as Marcel Dareus did. The one thing the Bills can least afford to do in the first round is draft a project or someone who projects to a specific role or position based on potential or one hell of an impressive workout rather than the players body of work (I think we all know where I'm going with that statement). With the Bills drafting 7-12 depending on what happens this week, I think this pick is a no brainer, Courtney Upshaw. May not be the next Cornelius Bennett (or maybe he will be), but he is clearly the most NFL ready player that can step right in to a a 3-4 OLB role and make a difference immediately. After the first round they need a true NT in the 340lb. range (no way is Dareus 340 lbs. as listed). Torell Troup hasn't shown any ability to play at a high level or stay healthy and Kyle Williams can't hold up at NT for a full season (move to DE or inside in 4 lineman situtions?). The two NTs I have on my radar are Alameda Ta'amu and Kwame Geathers, both in the 350 lb. range. One or the other should be available when the Bills pick in round 2. After that, yes, the Bills need a solid corner or two. With McGee done and McKelvin on the bubble, the Bills need depth. After that, wr, tackle, safety, TE. I'd say a developmental QB, but that's a reach after round 2. Fitz ain't the answer, but he can hold down the fort for a couple years. Maybe next year the Bills will be in a position to grab a QB in the first round... not this year... big holes on defense. 4) We know Edwards is done as the DC. But here is where we need to be really careful. A lot of fans think that Wanny will take over. It could happen, but if it does, it signals two things... 1) Buddy has lost control because he's a 3-4 proponent, 2) Wanny only knows the 4-3 and the Bils only have a single DE on their roster (Kelsay) that can immediately function in the 4-3. All other DL on the Bills are 3-4 ends or 4-3 tackles. And, you have zero OLBs that can run in a 4-3. Folks need to take a look at Wanny's body of work and see that he was only effective when Jimmy Johnson propped him up. It was Jimmy's defense in Dallas and it was Jimmy's personnel that Wanny took over in Miami. He flopped on his own in Chicago and at Pitt and quit in Miami when he realized he was in over his head. I'm OK if the Bills keep Wanny as Asst. HC, but the Bills really need to bring in an experienced 3-4 coach... perhaps Mangini, Nolan, Pees, or similar. I'm sorry, but I didn't read the rest of your post because of the inaccurate information posted in bold. Three out of four million dollars owed to Merriman next year are guaranteed; we wouldn't save that much cash from cutting him. There is more incentive to keep Merriman than there is to cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm sorry, but I didn't read the rest of your post because of the inaccurate information posted in bold. Three out of four million dollars owed to Merriman next year are guaranteed; we wouldn't save that much cash from cutting him. There is more incentive to keep Merriman than there is to cut him. Another poster said the 2012 Merrman contract was small and incentive based. How can this front offfice give a guy a $3 or $4 million guaranteed contract when he hasn't played a full season in couple years? Everyone on this board new he wasn't going to make it through the year except the Bills front office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Another poster said the 2012 Merrman contract was small and incentive based. How can this front offfice give a guy a $3 or $4 million guaranteed contract when he hasn't played a full season in couple years? Everyone on this board new he wasn't going to make it through the year except the Bills front office? Here's a link:http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/24815/shawne-merriman-thrilled-with-bills "Merriman has some interesting language for 2012 also tied to last year's Achilles injury. His base salary will be $4 million regardless. The minute he's cleared to practice -- even if it's a month from now -- $3 million of his 2012 salary becomes fully guaranteed whether he's on the roster or not. Of course, he would need to remain with the team to pick up his $1 million roster bonus and $250,000 workout bonus for 2012."- from Tim Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I respect your opinion, and admire your optimisim, because he would be a good addition to our team even at 80% of his old self. My position with Merriman hasn't changed, though: I believe he is one of the players whose body isn't built naturally strong enough, or tough enough (some guys go their whole careers without ever being really damaged) to withstand the NFL for long, so he leans on stuff like HGH - and since the crackdown HE HAS BEEN FINISHED. Is it a coincidence only - I can't help but ask - that ever since he's been watched for that stuff he can't stay healthy, while before then he was so good? And, what makes it even more obvious, the only offseason where he could've done the stuff and not been watched, he comes back strong for a few games - time enough to let the stuffs effect wear off - and then he goes back to being prone to injury. Now, I'll be glad if he proves me wrong. But, if I'm the Bills, there is no way I don't go after his replacements twofold until he proves me wrong, and if he ever does - then you can never have too many LB's in a 3-4. Can you please advise as to when this began, exactly? Is it presumable that he started "being watched" right after he tested positive in the preseason of 2006? I ask because some around here will argue that because he had two fantastic, ALL PRO seasons after he tested positive in the summer of '06, he was NEVER off the juice and in the same breath argue that he was injured because he WAS off the juice. Which is it? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Stevie's asking price: http://wgr550.com/Source--Stevie-Johnson-s-Asking-Price-to-Bills---7/11853952 Sounds VERY reasonable to me. By todays standards that is a very good starting point point. The Bills should be able to accomodate. I guess it will depend on how long and how much up front? I would sign him and still look at free agents and the draft. We need more speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Based on the Bills track record and their "cash to cap" directive, don't expect the Bills to sign any significant free agents in the off season. 1) I think the majority of us can agree, Merriman & McGee are finished, an their release should free up about $11M cap bucks. That alone ought to be enough to extend Fred a year or two and give Steve Johnson about $7M. 2) FREE AGENCY. I would expect the Bills will bring in one healthy, experienced OLB (of the backup variety) and a mid level wr with the ability to stretch the D. In fairness to Batten, it was essentially his rookie season without any offseason tutoring. Same with Moats, his second season, and no offseason tutoring. 3) DRAFT. Bills need a "plug and play" guy that can immendiately step right in from day one and make an impact, as Marcel Dareus did. The one thing the Bills can least afford to do in the first round is draft a project or someone who projects to a specific role or position based on potential or one hell of an impressive workout rather than the players body of work (I think we all know where I'm going with that statement). With the Bills drafting 7-12 depending on what happens this week, I think this pick is a no brainer, Courtney Upshaw. May not be the next Cornelius Bennett (or maybe he will be), but he is clearly the most NFL ready player that can step right in to a a 3-4 OLB role and make a difference immediately. After the first round they need a true NT in the 340lb. range (no way is Dareus 340 lbs. as listed). Torell Troup hasn't shown any ability to play at a high level or stay healthy and Kyle Williams can't hold up at NT for a full season (move to DE or inside in 4 lineman situtions?). The two NTs I have on my radar are Alameda Ta'amu and Kwame Geathers, both in the 350 lb. range. One or the other should be available when the Bills pick in round 2. After that, yes, the Bills need a solid corner or two. With McGee done and McKelvin on the bubble, the Bills need depth. After that, wr, tackle, safety, TE. I'd say a developmental QB, but that's a reach after round 2. Fitz ain't the answer, but he can hold down the fort for a couple years. Maybe next year the Bills will be in a position to grab a QB in the first round... not this year... big holes on defense. 4) We know Edwards is done as the DC. But here is where we need to be really careful. A lot of fans think that Wanny will take over. It could happen, but if it does, it signals two things... 1) Buddy has lost control because he's a 3-4 proponent, 2) Wanny only knows the 4-3 and the Bils only have a single DE on their roster (Kelsay) that can immediately function in the 4-3. All other DL on the Bills are 3-4 ends or 4-3 tackles. And, you have zero OLBs that can run in a 4-3. Folks need to take a look at Wanny's body of work and see that he was only effective when Jimmy Johnson propped him up. It was Jimmy's defense in Dallas and it was Jimmy's personnel that Wanny took over in Miami. He flopped on his own in Chicago and at Pitt and quit in Miami when he realized he was in over his head. I'm OK if the Bills keep Wanny as Asst. HC, but the Bills really need to bring in an experienced 3-4 coach... perhaps Mangini, Nolan, Pees, or similar. Bring in Nolan and draft 351 pound Johnathan Jenkins or 361 pound Brandon Bulloock for NT in the latter rounds and use the earlier rounds on impact players; CBs, OLBs, WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Another poster said the 2012 Merrman contract was small and incentive based. How can this front offfice give a guy a $3 or $4 million guaranteed contract when he hasn't played a full season in couple years? Everyone on this board new he wasn't going to make it through the year except the Bills front office? I said that, and I knew it was around $3-4mil. That isnt very much at all in the NFL. That is exactly in line with what guys like Andra Davis, Spencer Johnson, and Brad Smith are making. It's not top salary. More like middle-to-low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Based on the Bills track record and their "cash to cap" directive, don't expect the Bills to sign any significant free agents in the off season. 1) I think the majority of us can agree, Merriman & McGee are finished, an their release should free up about $11M cap bucks. That alone ought to be enough to extend Fred a year or two and give Steve Johnson about $7M. 2) FREE AGENCY. I would expect the Bills will bring in one healthy, experienced OLB (of the backup variety) and a mid level wr with the ability to stretch the D. In fairness to Batten, it was essentially his rookie season without any offseason tutoring. Same with Moats, his second season, and no offseason tutoring. 3) DRAFT. Bills need a "plug and play" guy that can immendiately step right in from day one and make an impact, as Marcel Dareus did. The one thing the Bills can least afford to do in the first round is draft a project or someone who projects to a specific role or position based on potential or one hell of an impressive workout rather than the players body of work (I think we all know where I'm going with that statement). With the Bills drafting 7-12 depending on what happens this week, I think this pick is a no brainer, Courtney Upshaw. May not be the next Cornelius Bennett (or maybe he will be), but he is clearly the most NFL ready player that can step right in to a a 3-4 OLB role and make a difference immediately. After the first round they need a true NT in the 340lb. range (no way is Dareus 340 lbs. as listed). Torell Troup hasn't shown any ability to play at a high level or stay healthy and Kyle Williams can't hold up at NT for a full season (move to DE or inside in 4 lineman situtions?). The two NTs I have on my radar are Alameda Ta'amu and Kwame Geathers, both in the 350 lb. range. One or the other should be available when the Bills pick in round 2. After that, yes, the Bills need a solid corner or two. With McGee done and McKelvin on the bubble, the Bills need depth. After that, wr, tackle, safety, TE. I'd say a developmental QB, but that's a reach after round 2. Fitz ain't the answer, but he can hold down the fort for a couple years. Maybe next year the Bills will be in a position to grab a QB in the first round... not this year... big holes on defense. 4) We know Edwards is done as the DC. But here is where we need to be really careful. A lot of fans think that Wanny will take over. It could happen, but if it does, it signals two things... 1) Buddy has lost control because he's a 3-4 proponent, 2) Wanny only knows the 4-3 and the Bils only have a single DE on their roster (Kelsay) that can immediately function in the 4-3. All other DL on the Bills are 3-4 ends or 4-3 tackles. And, you have zero OLBs that can run in a 4-3. Folks need to take a look at Wanny's body of work and see that he was only effective when Jimmy Johnson propped him up. It was Jimmy's defense in Dallas and it was Jimmy's personnel that Wanny took over in Miami. He flopped on his own in Chicago and at Pitt and quit in Miami when he realized he was in over his head. I'm OK if the Bills keep Wanny as Asst. HC, but the Bills really need to bring in an experienced 3-4 coach... perhaps Mangini, Nolan, Pees, or similar. I agree with some disagree with others . The Merriman thing i think he is contracted to play this year & can't for the life of me see how any one can't see that while he was on the field our D was better just because of his resume , & that when he went down that's when our D started to go down as well but that is what it is . I say at least bring him back for OTA's before closing this chapter of his career , if he comes back half of what he was in his hay day that's 5 or 6 sacks a year how can that be bad ?? Mcgee on the other hand SEE YA !! He was good for a time but age & injury wise is way to iffy to bring back . We definitely need to get Freddy & Stevie signed & draft a pass rusher in this years draft , plus a OLB as you said & another speedy WR . I too think if Kellen Moore is available in the later rounds he would be a great pick up with his resume & accuracy he is another Brees in the making , with a year or 2 to sit behind Fitz it would be win win for all !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) 1. fully expect the Bills to hype their chase of a bunch of high profile free agents then to actually sign a few has-been nobodies after the big name guys somehow escape to other teams 2. expect Chan to completely ignore upgrading the coaching or conditioning staff 3. expect the Bills to draft a RB and/or CB in the top 3 rounds 4. expect the Bills to ignore upgrading the OL with any significant draft picks or free agency adds 5. expect Bills to disclose that Fitz has been playing with some broken body part which will heal in the off-season and allow him to be all-world next year. 6. also expect that the Bills will attempt to change the position of at least one of their top draft picks basically business as usual Edited December 30, 2011 by spartacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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