A Few Thoughts About The Game

[Gordio]

And why those games?!?

 

Every game has calls on both sides. If you convince yourself the Refs have an agenda you will always find it.

 

Who is this powerful man betting against buffalo every week?

 

 

Don't be so naive guys. I am not saying this was the case yesterday but refs are human, have bills just like everybody else. Why is it so hard believe a ref can be bought for the right price. These guys are only part time & have regular jobs during the week. & to be honest I always thought football is one of the easier sports to fix. You could basically call a holding penalty on any given play. & for your last quote, who knows but to ask a question like that just tells me you have no idea how the great world of handicapping is all about. There are a ton of shady people with pretty deep pockets that I am quite sure try to fix a game whenever possible.

[xsoldier54]

Who in the NFL would be ordering this to happen? Goodell? Someone who works for him? With his blessing? without it? Who's money was put down?

I don't believe it's the league. I believe it is the mob. Millions of dollars are wagered every single week on NFL games. All it takes is one official in the right place in key games each week and they are covered. I read a book about this and it seems very feasible to me. I know, I know no one likes conspiracy theorists, but some of these calls (not just in Bills games) are beyond explanation. Having said that, this team couldn't win if their lives depended on it.

[Gordio]

Every week in every season guys make this same wild claim, yet when pressed to explain how on Earth such a scheme could work, they offer nothing---other than "I don't who is doing it or how it works, but it must be true".

 

I can be persuaded fellas--give it better try than that.

Last year I was at the Mirage Super Bowl weekend. We are at the sports book betting college bball games on Saturday & we thre some money down on Uconn -4 over Seton Hall. Uconn was a top 25 team Seton Hall was not very good. The whole game hall had a double digit lead. Uconn looked horrible. The last 5 minutes they started getting there act together & finally took the lead & with Hall fouling got the lead up to 5 with 3 seconds left. They had the ball under the SETON HALL basket. All the guy had to do was basically inbound the ball, game is over we win our bet. The guy inexplicablly chucks the ball all the way past half court toward his own basket. Where there is noone there except 2 Seton hall players. The one guy picks it up & lays it in as time expires. Hall c overs. The groan at the Mirage when this happened was unreal. Everybody had Uconn in the place. Guys 2 days later in Vegas how the fix was in. I have been betting college bball since I was 16 years old & I have never lost a game like that. There should of been a full investigation on both teams. It was disgusting.

[Mr. WEO]

http://deadspin.com/5392067/excerpts-from-the-book-the-nba-doesnt-want-you-to-read

 

All I'd say is... it's possible. And it's happened on this level of competition before.

Ah, yes--the Tim Donaghy "go to" story to say "it could happen" in the NFL. Well, if you want to file it under "anything could happen"--fine. But that guy calling fouls as he wanted to while on the take (that's about all the refs can do in a basketball game) has little to do with what is being alleged here--that there is a league-wide conspiracy involving all refs--and the league itself (somehow).

 

You're conflating the two ideas--in the first, all it takes is getting to one official in the gambler, one off game case. That could (and has, in the NBA) been done before.

 

In the second, it would admittedly take a wider conspiracy, making it less likely, but something similar to it has also happened--see the Serie soccer scandal in Italy. In that case, they found that certain officials were being designated to ref certain games and said refs were on the take, as was the assignor. That one was indeed a league-wide scandal. Not saying it's happened or is happening here, but it's ridiculous to categorically say it couldn't happen in the NFL, when it has in fact happened in another major league....

Talk about "conflation"--again, by pointing out that it happened somewhere else (sorry "Serie A" is not the NFL, paisan) does not support the suspicion that it is actually happening in the NFL as many here are claiming. And they are not talking about "one official"--it's all of them.

 

I didn't "categorically say it couldn't happen in the NFL" ("anything can happen", right?). I said it would have to involve a massive effort by refs, owners, and all league officials. No one so far has been able to articulate how this would actually happen. Instead the best you can come up with is "it's happened elsewhere". By the way, bribery and corruption are part of the European culture. It's accepted as part of daily life. That culture doesn't exist nearly to that degree in this country, which makes such a scandal that the conspiracy loons here promote even more unlikely.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Mr. WEO

[xsoldier54]

So for this to work, 100% of the refs would have to be in on it. How did they get to all of them? DO they all get a taste of the take?

Not all would have to be in. Just one on each crew could do it. I believe it is possible and any time there is this much money changing hands on bets, anything is possible.

[freeagentqb]

Anybody else feel that maybe Fitz has been injured or just maybe he is not strong enough to go a full season throwing as many passes as he does. I read on this board how he seems to be putting more body into his passes causing him to be erratic. Perhaps his arm strength has faded after the fast start. Would be interesting to see how he does after resting more - say after the bye week etc. Thats the only explanation that seems possible after watching him the first five games of the year and his major dropoff now....

[Bill from NYC]

Talk about "conflation"--again, by pointing out that it happened somewhere else (sorry "Serie A" is not the NFL, paisan) does not support the suspicion that it is actually happening in the NFL as many here are claiming. And they are not talking about "one official"--it's all of them.

 

I didn't "categorically say it couldn't happen in the NFL" ("anything can happen", right?). I said it would have to involve a massive effort by refs, owners, and all league officials. No one so far has been able to articulate how this would actually happen. Instead the best you can come up with is "it's happened elsewhere". By the way, bribery and corruption are part of the European culture. It's accepted as part of daily life. That culture doesn't exist nearly to that degree in this country, which makes such a scandal that the conspiracy loons here promote even more unlikely.

 

Nobody can prove there is any kind of manipulation, but I think that enough evidence exists to at least warrant an investigation.

And, power has shifted hands. The Italian "Mafia" is no longer strong. In fact, the biggiest bookies are state governments. The networks would seem to be where the money is. They have a lot riding on seeing fan favorites win, right?

Again, none of us have concrete proof of corruption. But yesterday, a Bils receiver was impeded and struck in the head. A flag was tossed and picked up. This imo merits mention and investigation.

Jmo.

[bigc14120]

I don't know if Fitz looks hurt. Didn't seem that way to me really. What makes you think so? Anything you can point to and say there, right there, see, he's hurt?

 

My theory is that without a run game, without a defense, and without decent WRs who can catch the football, he's trying to do it all himself and trying too hard to make something happen. He needs help.

 

That picked up flag on the PI was a horrendous no call.

 

No one has mentioned this, but I though Hagan looked decent today. I hope he gets more balls thrown to him next week.

As a receiver, he looked OK. Of course, he was playing defensive end on the fake punt the Chargers ran, and they ran around him. So, if we can keep him away from playing on the defensive line, he might be a contributor. And, WHY was he playing defensive end?

[D521646]

I don't know if Fitz looks hurt. Didn't seem that way to me really. What makes you think so? Anything you can point to and say there, right there, see, he's hurt?

 

My theory is that without a run game, without a defense, and without decent WRs who can catch the football, he's trying to do it all himself and trying too hard to make something happen. He needs help.

 

That picked up flag on the PI was a horrendous no call.

 

No one has mentioned this, but I though Hagan looked decent today. I hope he gets more balls thrown to him next week.

 

 

100% agree!

 

Fitz hurt? I cry BS! Show me the money??

 

The Pi call was bad but so too was the ST miss on the fake punt. (IMO the best call Norv made as coach all year) That call stole our thunder, and won them the game!

 

I agree on Hagen, could be a Robinson type player for us, and better hands than Jones for sure!

 

 

Tim-

[bigc14120]

1) Is anybody looking for good news? Look no further than Marcel Dareus. Today, he was the lone good player on the front 7, and he was a monster. He is a potential star people.

 

2) OK, now for some bad news: Kelsay is bad beyond description. He is a bad DE and a bad OLB. Imo he is barely a second string player.

 

3) I want to talk about Hairston. Yes, he had a rough outing but I actually saw him make some plays. I was watching closely. The kid could be a good, perhaps VERY good RT. I like him a lot, but he is NOT an option at LT. Backup LT? Absolutely. That's about it. Long story short? We need an offensive left tackle folks, and there in no getting around this fact. Bell is a small, brittle 7th round pick. Yes, we need an offensive left tackle. Hairston was terrible, got beat cleanly several times. But, why does that make him a right tackle? Looks like a washout to me. Bell is brittle, and a soon as we get a replacement, we don't need to resign him.

 

4) Time for Moorman to part ways with the Buffalo Bills. Seriously. He is a horror show at this point, and btw, I hope he is in good health. He looks like he lost 30 or more pounds and lives in Biafra. Yes folks, he is totally shot, like it or not. Moorman is punting well man, how he looks is not a relevant concern.

 

5) OK, it's time to talk about Spiller. He doesn't hit holes fast enough. If he did, if he could get through lanes, it would more than likely atone for the fact that he goes down upon any contact. CJ does not look like a pro running back. He is good in the open field, but lacks the instinct to stick his nose in there and get 3 tough yards...always going for the long one, and getting -1 doing it. I don't know what to do with him...he isn't a receiver either. And with the game now deemphazing return skills, I think he is a marginal player in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

6) I am not defending Fitz. To be clear, he was God awful. But, it looked to me as if he was hurt. Did anyone else think this?

 

7) Same old story, and I know it's been told

Some like jelly jelly, some like gold

Many a man's done a terrible thing

Just to get baby,

A shiny diamond ring.

 

8) No flag for pass interference just before the 1st half? Is that what happened? It is time to question the integrity of the NFL. Sorry, but it is. There is only one reason to overturn a call so obvious. Yes, I am making a direct allegation of corruption. Btw, there was an equally flagrant non-call at the end of the Vikes/Lions game. Economic times are tough, and I am directly accusing the league of corruption. I doubt corruption, I believe playing to the home crowd.

 

9) OK, more good news: Stevie Johnson made 2 spectacular catches today. I am talking about really great plays. We HAVE to keep him. Johnson has talent, but is not the deep threat that is needed at #1. Bob Chandler wasn't fast either ,but was a great Bill. Stevie can be that kind of guy. (I am revealing my age when I mention that I watched the Chandler years, he was a USC teammate of OJ)

 

10) I have seen scads of bad Bufflo Bills football teams. This year, cameras are showing opponents laughing on the sidelines, and yes it does hurt. YEP! No respect yet, it has not been earned.

 

11) Hang tough people. Maybe we will draft a QB. Or Courtney Upshaw. Or Donta Hightower. In any event, count me as one who thinks that we will improve next season.

 

12) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Big Cat]

4) Time for Moorman to part ways with the Buffalo Bills. Seriously. He is a horror show at this point, and btw, I hope he is in good health. He looks like he lost 30 or more pounds and lives in Biafra. Yes folks, he is totally shot, like it or not.

 

Couldn't agree more. What took you so long to finally come around? LINK

[merlin]

And why those games?!?

 

Every game has calls on both sides. If you convince yourself the Refs have an agenda you will always find it.

 

Who is this powerful man betting against buffalo every week?

 

I think he's a cab driver in disguise ...

[tennesseeboy]

We have regressed from the Dick Jauron years. How does THAT sound? We dumped some pretty good players (Evans, Incognito, Poz, Whitner. We drafted some pretty bad players, including Maybin and Spiller. We simply are a bad team getting worse. The shame is that there still remains enough talent for a nine win season, but we have not been playing to potential.

 

I said it before the season, said it during the season and say it again..Nine wins or Buddy and Chan should be gone.

[BuffaloBill]

I did not watch the game - celebrating my Dad's 75th birthday fell into the category of more important things in life. I remain a loyal Bills fan but am left to question once again the front office. Nix has had two questionable drafts outside of Dareus. This slide is probably worse than 2008 only because it was not entirely unexpected back then. The Bills have a significant amount of work to do in the offseason if they hope to turn this around.

[NoSaint]

Nobody can prove there is any kind of manipulation, but I think that enough evidence exists to at least warrant an investigation.

And, power has shifted hands. The Italian "Mafia" is no longer strong. In fact, the biggiest bookies are state governments. The networks would seem to be where the money is. They have a lot riding on seeing fan favorites win, right?

Again, none of us have concrete proof of corruption. But yesterday, a Bils receiver was impeded and struck in the head. A flag was tossed and picked up. This imo merits mention and investigation.

Jmo.

 

So both teams in the Saints-titans game are saying the same thing, we are saying it, the minnesota game was rigged according to this thread.... should i go to the other boards and show how EVERY team thinks that the refs are out to get them? that might actually be a good sign for the league.

 

bad calls happen.

 

with 24 hour sports coverage, 17 bills message boards, 42 high def super slo-mo cameras being replayed 103 times, and knowing the result of the play before we get to review all these options.... we catch these mess ups more often than we used to. we talk about them with a lot more people than we used to. calls were missed in '78 just as bad, it just wasnt such a big deal.

 

if i get one shot, at odd angles, full speed, without the benefit of knowing whats coming.... im going to miss some calls. frankly the refs do a pretty solid job all things considered.

 

We have regressed from the Dick Jauron years. How does THAT sound? We dumped some pretty good players (Evans, Incognito, Poz, Whitner. We drafted some pretty bad players, including Maybin and Spiller. We simply are a bad team getting worse. The shame is that there still remains enough talent for a nine win season, but we have not been playing to potential.

 

I said it before the season, said it during the season and say it again..Nine wins or Buddy and Chan should be gone.

 

 

we had incognito for like 3 weeks and he didnt want to be here. do you really want to force a guy that has repeatedly shown he cant control his emotions to stay. im betting he wouldnt deal to well with that. beyond that, he isnt that good of a player. if you want be upset, atleast try to stick to things that are worth being mad about. obviously there are plenty of examples.

[Dan]

For me it is still all about the defense.  I just think everyone is underestimating the impact it has when your D gets you in the hole by 2 or 3 TDs to start every game.  Your margin for error becomes so small.  Things get stressed and rushed.  Half the gameplan goes out the window.  Coaches and QBs start forcing things.  Other teams' defenses start playing with more confidence and taking more chances.  It's been the story every week for about 2 months.  It really makes it difficult to evaluate Chan, Fitz, and Spiller.

 

I could not agree with you more. All analysis and talk about the offensive side of the ball is mute, until the defensive issues are addressed. Once again, the defense allowed the other team to march down the field at will throughout the game. Yes, they look better in the second half, but that's only because the other team has a nice lead and begins playing more conservative.

 

 

Once you're behind by 2 or 3 scores right outta the gate, the entire offensive gameplay is thrown out the door. We've seen this week in and week out. You don't let Spiller run the ball when you're down by 3 scores in the second half.

 

 

Edwards is horrendous as a defensive coordinator. We're missing 1 (KW) maybe 2 (Merriman) impact players from the defense. Yet everyone is out of position, late to the ball, undisciplined, and just generally apathetic. It's a horrendous defense playing far below their talent levels. If Chan doesn't correct this miserable mistake, then he needs to go as well. It's bad enough he hired him in the first place. Now, just man up, admit you made a mistake, and bring in a proven DC.

[Coach Tuesday]

I could not agree with you more. All analysis and talk about the offensive side of the ball is mute, until the defensive issues are addressed. Once again, the defense allowed the other team to march down the field at will throughout the game. Yes, they look better in the second half, but that's only because the other team has a nice lead and begins playing more conservative.

 

 

Once you're behind by 2 or 3 scores right outta the gate, the entire offensive gameplay is thrown out the door. We've seen this week in and week out. You don't let Spiller run the ball when you're down by 3 scores in the second half.

 

 

Edwards is horrendous as a defensive coordinator. We're missing 1 (KW) maybe 2 (Merriman) impact players from the defense. Yet everyone is out of position, late to the ball, undisciplined, and just generally apathetic. It's a horrendous defense playing far below their talent levels. If Chan doesn't correct this miserable mistake, then he needs to go as well. It's bad enough he hired him in the first place. Now, just man up, admit you made a mistake, and bring in a proven DC.

 

That play they highlighted where the Chargers ran a 2-man route against 5 DBs and successfully completed it downfield - that summed it up for me. The 3 linebackers were bunched together in the short middle of the field, completely out of position.

 

It's not personnel or execution, it's scheme and coaching. IMO Gailey is going to be asked to make some difficult changes to his coaching staff this offseason, and if he refuses, he'll be canned. Perhaps he'll take the high road and retire instead of firing a bunch of his defensive coaching staff.

[The Big Cat]

I could not agree with you more. All analysis and talk about the offensive side of the ball is mute, until the defensive issues are addressed. Once again, the defense allowed the other team to march down the field at will throughout the game. Yes, they look better in the second half, but that's only because the other team has a nice lead and begins playing more conservative.

 

 

Once you're behind by 2 or 3 scores right outta the gate, the entire offensive gameplay is thrown out the door. We've seen this week in and week out. You don't let Spiller run the ball when you're down by 3 scores in the second half.

 

 

Edwards is horrendous as a defensive coordinator. We're missing 1 (KW) maybe 2 (Merriman) impact players from the defense. Yet everyone is out of position, late to the ball, undisciplined, and just generally apathetic. It's a horrendous defense playing far below their talent levels. If Chan doesn't correct this miserable mistake, then he needs to go as well. It's bad enough he hired him in the first place. Now, just man up, admit you made a mistake, and bring in a proven DC.

 

I agree with every word of your post, but one:

 

 

Definition of MOOT

 

1

a : open to question : debatable

b : subjected to discussion : disputed

2

: deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic

 

[Fan in San Diego]

Ah, yes--the Tim Donaghy "go to" story to say "it could happen" in the NFL. Well, if you want to file it under "anything could happen"--fine. But that guy calling fouls as he wanted to while on the take (that's about all the refs can do in a basketball game) has little to do with what is being alleged here--that there is a league-wide conspiracy involving all refs--and the league itself (somehow).

 

 

Talk about "conflation"--again, by pointing out that it happened somewhere else (sorry "Serie A" is not the NFL, paisan) does not support the suspicion that it is actually happening in the NFL as many here are claiming. And they are not talking about "one official"--it's all of them.

 

I didn't "categorically say it couldn't happen in the NFL" ("anything can happen", right?). I said it would have to involve a massive effort by refs, owners, and all league officials. No one so far has been able to articulate how this would actually happen. Instead the best you can come up with is "it's happened elsewhere". By the way, bribery and corruption are part of the European culture. It's accepted as part of daily life. That culture doesn't exist nearly to that degree in this country, which makes such a scandal that the conspiracy loons here promote even more unlikely.

 

The most likely fixing scenerio is a wealthy gambler pays a single ref to help keep scoring down or to help a team win. All it takes is a PI call here and there to shape the game. There are plenty of questionable PI calls every week. Very hard to detect. The NFL should closely monitor all refs bank accounts and lifestyles. If a reg suddenly has $25K deposited into their 401K, what is that all about? Or a brand new Cadillac shows up paid for. Or if not paid for, who's making the payments?

Fixing is a real threat and the NFL should look for it aggressively.

[silvermike]

Always look forward to these, Bill.

 

1) Is anybody looking for good news? Look no further than Marcel Dareus. Today, he was the lone good player on the front 7, and he was a monster. He is a potential star people.

 

Agreed. Dareus is a beast, and we'll have Kyle Williams to put next to him next year. If things break at all our way, our defensive line could be very good next year. I'd be interested in seeing Troup on the nose with Dareus and Williams playing ends, if he comes back strong from his injury this year.

 

2) OK, now for some bad news: Kelsay is bad beyond description. He is a bad DE and a bad OLB. Imo he is barely a second string player.

 

Ugh. I wasn't keeping an eye on him today, but this isn't news. Frustrating every year, every game. Fun fact: he'll probably finish in the top-15 all time for the Bills in terms of games played. He's one of our own.

 

3) I want to talk about Hairston. Yes, he had a rough outing but I actually saw him make some plays. I was watching closely. The kid could be a good, perhaps VERY good RT. I like him a lot, but he is NOT an option at LT. Backup LT? Absolutely. That's about it. Long story short? We need an offensive left tackle folks, and there in no getting around this fact. Bell is a small, brittle 7th round pick. Yes, we need an offensive left tackle.

 

 

The announcers were giving Hairston a rough day, but as a rookie LT, I think he's had a passable season. I'll note that Gaither seemed to hold the end fairly well for San Diego today, and he was there for free depth if we wanted him a couple weeks ago. He's not the guy I thought he was a year ago, but he could well be a valuable player. Any thoughts on Pears' long term viability there?

 

4) Time for Moorman to part ways with the Buffalo Bills. Seriously. He is a horror show at this point, and btw, I hope he is in good health. He looks like he lost 30 or more pounds and lives in Biafra. Yes folks, he is totally shot, like it or not.

 

That 15-yard punt brought tears to my eyes, but I'm not ready to shoot the old horse yet. He's getting good distance this year, but the return coverage has gotten a lot worse sans Bobby April. Our special teams fell back this regime. I don't like it. Depth issues? DeHaven might just not have the scheming ability.

 

5) OK, it's time to talk about Spiller. He doesn't hit holes fast enough. If he did, if he could get through lanes, it would more than likely atone for the fact that he goes down upon any contact.

 

Spiller had so much promise last week. This week, back to business as usual. I still don't think he's bad enough to merit the neglect our game plan gives the running game. I don't care how far you're down in the first half, run the ball! Especially if your defense has been off. You need to show that you can control the game, not start swinging wildly for the fences.

 

6) I am not defending Fitz. To be clear, he was God awful. But, it looked to me as if he was hurt. Did anyone else think this?

 

 

I don't know about hurt. He strikes me as mostly frustrated. A guy who is prone to really forcing things when it's not going well, either in-game or on the season, and those passes get away from him easily. He's not Brett Favre, a guy who lives and dies on his gunslinging. He's a quick, punchy, rhythm QB when things are working, and he's suffering badly from the dearth of good-rhythm WRs on the team. Or RBs, or TE with Chandler and Jackson out. I'm happy enough with him taking the reins back next year, but I think the guy could stand a break at this point. Some light injury to take him out of it for a week might help clear his head, since it doesn't matter if we win the remainder anyway. And some reassurance by seeing how bad another guy is in this system.

 

7) Same old story, and I know it's been told

Some like jelly jelly, some like gold

Many a man's done a terrible thing

Just to get baby,

A shiny diamond ring.

 

8) No flag for pass interference just before the 1st half? Is that what happened? It is time to question the integrity of the NFL. Sorry, but it is. There is only one reason to overturn a call so obvious. Yes, I am making a direct allegation of corruption. Btw, there was an equally flagrant non-call at the end of the Vikes/Lions game. Economic times are tough, and I am directly accusing the league of corruption.

 

9) OK, more good news: Stevie Johnson made 2 spectacular catches today. I am talking about really great plays. We HAVE to keep him.

 

10) I have seen scads of bad Bufflo Bills football teams. This year, cameras are showing opponents laughing on the sidelines, and yes it does hurt.

 

11) Hang tough people. Maybe we will draft a QB. Or Courtney Upshaw. Or Donta Hightower. In any event, count me as one who thinks that we will improve next season.

 

12) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I'm out of time. Agreed on Stevie Johnson, he's one of the only guys left playing like he really gives two craps about the outcome. Hopefully that's not just for the contract.