Pay Fred Jackson Mr Overdoff PLEASE ?

[DrDawkinstein]

It's debatable whether, Stewart, Jones, Jacobs, Gore, LT nowadays, Forte, Bradshaw are better than Fred.

 

Not to mention everyone of those guys except, MJD, Stewart, and Jackson play on better teams with better supporting cast.

 

We're already dealing in impossible-to-predict what-ifs. you guys dont get to make every excuse and qualifier as well.

 

OF COURSE its arguable whether some of those guys are better than Fred. But that kinda proves our point as well, in just the simple fact that it's debatable. OF COURSE some players had better supporting casts, and some had worse.

 

So if my argument doesnt hold any water, neither does the original question posted. Hence why I said Id "pay along".

 

Freddy is great for the Bills. Im glad he is a Bill. He played an amazing game on Sunday and it was one of the best RB performances Ive seen on this team in years. But he is not a legendary HoFer, and he's extremely overvalued by the fans.

[Orton's Arm]

You expect Thurman to score ZERO touchdowns?

 

Look, I really like Freddie all around, but he has a major issue with getting it in the end zone. If he is the feature back for an entire season this year, he better start scoring consistently and end up with 10+ TDs.

 

As far as your question goes, of course it's impossible to answer, but playing along with guys who couldve done the same job...:

 

Arian Foster

Michael Turner

MJD

Adrian Peterson

Steven Jackson

Ray Rice

Darren McFadden

Matt Forte

LT

Frank Gore

Brandon Jacobs

Ahmed Bradshaw

Rashard Mendenhall

Felix Jones

Jonathan Stewart

 

There's 15 possibilities. I even left off Jamaal Charles and Chris Johnson, amongst others.

 

Fred is GREAT, I love the way he runs and his work ethic, but he is replaceable.

I looked up the RBs you mentioned. They all had comparable or better career averages than Jackson's 4.5 yards a carry--but with a few exceptions.

 

Matt Forte has averaged 4.0 yards per carry over the course of his career, which has been spent with the Bears.

During the 2008, 2009, and 2010 seasons, LaDanian Tomlinson: averaged 3.8, 3.3, and 4.2 yards per carry.

Rashard Mendenhall has compiled a 4.2 yards per carry career average while playing for the Steelers.

 

While I don't agree that Forte, Mendenhall, or an aging Tomlinson are the equals of Fred Jackson, it's hard to dispute most of the other players on your list. However, a few other players on the list have compiled averages similar to Fred Jackson's career average of 4.5 yards a carry. For example, Steven Jackson's career average is 4.3 yards per carry, Jonathan Stewart's career average is 4.7 yards per carry, and Michael Turner's average is also 4.7 yards a carry. Turner has spent his career with the Chargers and the Falcons--both of which would seem to offer a better situation for a RB than the Bills.

 

Your list made me realize there's more RB talent in the NFL than I'd previously believed. After having looked more closely at that RB talent, I have concluded that while Fred Jackson isn't necessarily a top-10 RB, he's probably in the neighborhood of 12 - 13.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

I looked up the RBs you mentioned. They all had comparable or better career averages than Jackson's 4.5 yards a carry--but with a few exceptions.

 

Matt Forte has averaged 4.0 yards per carry over the course of his career, which has been spent with the Bears.

During the 2008, 2009, and 2010 seasons, LaDanian Tomlinson: averaged 3.8, 3.3, and 4.2 yards per carry.

Rashard Mendenhall has compiled a 4.2 yards per carry career average while playing for the Steelers.

 

While I don't agree that Forte, Mendenhall, or an aging Tomlinson are the equals of Fred Jackson, it's hard to dispute most of the other players on your list. However, a few other players on the list have compiled averages similar to Fred Jackson's career average of 4.5 yards a carry. For example, Steven Jackson's career average is 4.3 yards per carry, Jonathan Stewart's career average is 4.7 yards per carry, and Michael Turner's average is also 4.7 yards a carry. Turner has spent his career with the Chargers and the Falcons--both of which would seem to offer a better situation for a RB than the Bills.

 

Your list made me realize there's more RB talent in the NFL than I'd previously believed. After having looked more closely at that RB talent, I have concluded that while Fred Jackson isn't necessarily a top-10 RB, he's probably in the neighborhood of 12 - 13.

 

There are a bunch of good backs now. But it's not all about the YPC. Freddy gets all of those little yards that don't seem to be there. He is a very good blocker and a decent receiver. He is not as explosive as many of those guys, but he just feels so solid all around. I can't argue he's better than many of those guys, but in terms of who I would want starting for the Bills right now, there are probably only 3-5 guys I would take over him. Some of the others might make my pro bowl ballet ahead of Freddy, but Freddy makes my lineup sheet ahead of them.

[FreakPop]

We're already dealing in impossible-to-predict what-ifs. you guys dont get to make every excuse and qualifier as well.

 

OF COURSE its arguable whether some of those guys are better than Fred. But that kinda proves our point as well, in just the simple fact that it's debatable. OF COURSE some players had better supporting casts, and some had worse.

 

So if my argument doesnt hold any water, neither does the original question posted. Hence why I said Id "pay along".

 

Freddy is great for the Bills. Im glad he is a Bill. He played an amazing game on Sunday and it was one of the best RB performances Ive seen on this team in years. But he is not a legendary HoFer, and he's extremely overvalued by the fans.

 

and that is exactly my point. You can throw all those guys in a hat pull out a name and have them start anywhere and for the most part not miss a beat, and Fred is included in tha group. Therefor to me those you mentioned are really no better than Fred.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

We extend Kelsy and not this guy? I say cut kelsy and extend this guy.

[nucci]

We extend Kelsy and not this guy? I say cut kelsy and extend this guy.

He signed a 4 year extension last year.

[Webster Guy]

I like Ryan Grant. had him on my fantasy team two years so I watched him a lot. He's a pretty darn good back.

 

I can't think of one thing that Ryan Grant does better than Fred Jackson. Jackson runs harder and more powerful, breaks more tackles, finds hole better, makes more out of nothing better, falls forward better, catches better and blocks better. RB is not all about stats. Grant has some breakaway runs and I don't know what his 40 time is but he isn't any faster than Jackson who has pure football speed.

Plus Freddy is more durable than Grant, maybe the biggest plus of all. If you're not on the field...........

[Max997]

OK one thing is clear and if you don"t see this OBD well you can't say I didnt try to help

 

Fred Jackson is good enough to help you make the playoffs.

 

Give him the Rock . Let him run over people all day, he only comes out if he gets tired. Let CJ learn.

 

You have to pay him, No doubt about it. The Vets will love ya for it. But please please please pay Fred.

 

2yr deal with 6 million locked in. Or if anybody else has a salary suggestion?

 

We have to get this done.

 

From a old school fan .

 

Thanks for reading.

 

what are you like 12?

 

why exactly will the vets love the front office for paying jackson?

 

Fred signed a new deal not too long ago and got a nice raise, no reason to give him another deal

Edited September 14, 2011 by Max997

[stony]

Kelly,

 

The closest situation for Freddy is Ryan Grant with the Packers....and the Packers really didn't pay him the big money....

His biggest weakness is scoring TDs...He simply seems to disappear in the Red zone (Not sure why)....Even in yesterday's game, at the 1 yard line instead of putting his head down, he tried to go in straight and was easily stood up by the LB....If you are the starting RB of the team and would like to be a super star you have to put the ball in the end zone. Hope Freddy does it often this year.

 

He scored on that play. Chan didn't want to review it though because he knew he cold just throw it to Chandler whenever he wanted.

[DrDawkinstein]

I looked up the RBs you mentioned. They all had comparable or better career averages than Jackson's 4.5 yards a carry--but with a few exceptions.

 

Matt Forte has averaged 4.0 yards per carry over the course of his career, which has been spent with the Bears.

During the 2008, 2009, and 2010 seasons, LaDanian Tomlinson: averaged 3.8, 3.3, and 4.2 yards per carry.

Rashard Mendenhall has compiled a 4.2 yards per carry career average while playing for the Steelers.

 

While I don't agree that Forte, Mendenhall, or an aging Tomlinson are the equals of Fred Jackson, it's hard to dispute most of the other players on your list. However, a few other players on the list have compiled averages similar to Fred Jackson's career average of 4.5 yards a carry. For example, Steven Jackson's career average is 4.3 yards per carry, Jonathan Stewart's career average is 4.7 yards per carry, and Michael Turner's average is also 4.7 yards a carry. Turner has spent his career with the Chargers and the Falcons--both of which would seem to offer a better situation for a RB than the Bills.

 

Your list made me realize there's more RB talent in the NFL than I'd previously believed. After having looked more closely at that RB talent, I have concluded that while Fred Jackson isn't necessarily a top-10 RB, he's probably in the neighborhood of 12 - 13.

 

 

Yep, that's my only point really. Fred is great, but lets not canonize the guy. Before us fans get carried away, let's look at him from a "Whole League" perspective and get a real value on him. I'd agree with your ranking. Hopefully, he stays hungry for that extension and runs hard this season and vaults himself into the top-10. Then the only question will be "How long can he stay in the top 10 at already 30 years old?". But thats for the FO to worry about.

 

Go Bills!

[Mickey]

I won't take a back seat to anybody when it comes to appreciating what Fred Jackson does on the football field. I can't think of a better player to represent this franchise, this city and Bills fans.

 

Unfortunately, when he got his contract extension, he wasn't a free agent, he was an exclusive rights free agent which meant the Bills owned him once they made the minimum tender to him

of $460k, which they did. Fred had no leverage in negotiations other than Lynch being so problematic that the Bills wanted to keep Fred happy and productive. He got a new deal but

I don't think it matched value and it still doesn't. Even so, Freddie is stuck with it. And with Spiller and his potential behind him, the Bills have an alternative if Freddie goes all sour grapes

on them. I would have no problem if the Bills did redo his contract but I don't really see that happening. For whatever reason, I don't think Buddy and Chan think all that much of him

otherwise there would have been no reason to take CJ in the first place.

[K-9]

Against the Chiefs, Jackson played about as good a game as I would have expected from Thurman in his prime. Granted, one game does not a career make. Even J.P. Losman looked good in a few games.

 

However, I dispute your statement that Jackson isn't a top-15 back in this league. Can you name 15 other RBs in the NFL who would have done better than Jackson, had they been the featured back of the Bills' 2010 offense?

 

You didn't watch TT much, did you?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bufcomments]

what are you like 12?

 

why exactly will the vets love the front office for paying jackson?

 

Fred signed a new deal not too long ago and got a nice raise, no reason to give him another deal

what are you like 14?

 

Think about it, he is a captain, well respected so it seems. Paying him would send a very positive message to the other Vets like Stevie for example that if your play outweighs your contract, the Bills will take care of you. Like they did for Kyle.

 

Kyle Williams is on his 3 contract in 3 yrs, correct me if I am wrong. So they do rip up contracts for players they like.

 

I hope they like Fred enough to at least give him a big bonus even if the base pay is still 2 million, they can redo it to include a bonus.

 

Just a thought.

[Orton's Arm]

Yep, that's my only point really. Fred is great, but lets not canonize the guy. Before us fans get carried away, let's look at him from a "Whole League" perspective and get a real value on him. I'd agree with your ranking. Hopefully, he stays hungry for that extension and runs hard this season and vaults himself into the top-10. Then the only question will be "How long can he stay in the top 10 at already 30 years old?". But thats for the FO to worry about.

 

Go Bills!

It's seems like we're more or less on the same page. But I also agree with Last Guy on the Bench when he wrote that it's not all about YPC. Whenever I see Fred Jackson play, he looks like a top-10 RB is supposed to look. He does all the little things well. On the other hand, his stats put him in the 12 - 13 range.

 

I also realize he had an insanely good game against the Chiefs, and that there's always a temptation to overemphasize any player's most recent game when evaluating his body of work.

 

I think there are other RBs who are more dangerous than Fred Jackson. Whenever the Chiefs ran to the outside, my sense was always that they were on the verge of running wild and breaking free. That showed up in the stat line, with their 6 yards per carry. But Fred Jackson did a lot of little things to make himself look Thurman-like in that game--things the Chiefs' RBs didn't do. If I was picking my starting RB on the basis of that game, I'd much rather have Jackson than any of the RBs on the Chiefs.

 

I agree that the Bills' front office should evaluate Jackson after the end of the season, and make a decision about whether he's a top-10 RB. If he continues to play at the same level he did against the Chiefs, that decision will be a very easy one! If they do decide he's a top-10 RB, it would be nice to see them give him some kind of raise and extension.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

You shouldn't pay RB's big money--even guys like AP and Chris Johnson. They're a dime a dozen, and then once they hit some random age, they fade out immediately.

 

Fred would be smart to do a deal that simply tacks on another year or two to the current deal, gives him a slight raise over the next two years, and gives him a nice signing bonus.

[Max997]

what are you like 14?

 

Think about it, he is a captain, well respected so it seems. Paying him would send a very positive message to the other Vets like Stevie for example that if your play outweighs your contract, the Bills will take care of you. Like they did for Kyle.

 

Kyle Williams is on his 3 contract in 3 yrs, correct me if I am wrong. So they do rip up contracts for players they like.

 

I hope they like Fred enough to at least give him a big bonus even if the base pay is still 2 million, they can redo it to include a bonus.

 

Just a thought.

 

you are missing the point...they already gave him a new contract with a nice bump

 

there is no reason to give him another one right now

 

im always amazed at how people worry about players getting a new deal especially when its not even their contract year

 

there isnt anything wrong with letting him play out this year or next with something to prove...he clearly has a chip on his shoulder and thats never a bad thing

Edited September 14, 2011 by Max997

[NewEra]

<br />You shouldn't pay RB's big money--even guys like AP and Chris Johnson.  They're a dime a dozen, and then once they hit some random age, they fade out immediately. <br /><br />Fred would be smart to do a deal that simply tacks on another year or two to the current deal, gives him a slight raise over the next two years, and gives him a nice signing bonus.<br />

Adrian Peterson is a dime a dozen player?  That's just a terrible post JR.  The guy is the most talented RB I've ever seen.  Ever.  His combination of size, speed, power, instincts and moves is among the best of all time.  I think that RB is an easy position to fill, and that many guys can have success if in the right offense.  But throwing AP in there as a dime a dozen player is crazy IMO. Edited September 14, 2011 by NewEra

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

http://youtu.be/1jUBbCgMWmE

[Max997]

Adrian Peterson is a dime a dozen player? That's just a terrible post JR. The guy is the most talented RB I've ever seen. Ever. His combination of size, speed, power, instincts and moves is among the best of all time. I think that RB is an easy position to fill, and that many guys can have success if in the right offense. But throwing AP in there as a dime a dozen player is crazy IMO.

 

although i agree AP isnt a dime a dozen player I understand where the other poster is coming from...the average career span for RB's is 5 years and it is always considered the easiest position to fill on a football team

 

I certainly dont consider him the most talented RB Ive ever seen though...that distinction for me goes to Bo Jackson who was just ridiculously talented

 

everyone will have their own opinion and thats mine, shame the guy got hurt and didnt want to play football full time

 

then of course there is Sanders who is just in a class by himself

Edited September 14, 2011 by Max997

[JESSEFEFFER]

His earning power was hurt by the unusually long time it took to establish his NFL career. The Bills are under no obligation to redo his contract after only one year into a 4 year deal. They were under not obligation to extend Kelsay like they did either. But...... as a captain and team leader and to back up their "we pay for production" mantra, it would make sense to put some nice bonus incentives into the deal. He has become more important to the team now than he was early in 2010. He knows he will never see a big contract but they should reward his outstanding team play and leadership in a meaningful way.