Not holding my breath, NGU

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly. I think I said it was part of the decision to move him. You don't automatically move a guy because he or his agent requests to be traded.

Understood, and agree. I actually just deleted my post because I realized that there could have been other factors all happening simultaneously.

 

For the record, I didn't like the trade, only because I think he is a valuable player, at a reasonable price. I surely understand it, both on the field as well as monetarily, and I surely understand Evans wanting to go to a contender at this point in his career. I do not believe Evans initiated or that was the main reason for the trade. Without question, however it transpired, there were salary and personnel and personal reasons for the trade.

[Alphadawg7]

Are they a better team with Evans?

 

Do the fans deserve the best team that the Bills can field?

 

If Evans was instrumental in providing one more win than they'll get do you think the fans deserve that win?

 

What is the overall philosophy of the Bills front office when it comes to fielding the best possible product for Bills fans to enjoy?

 

How many rebuilding efforts do you suppose we'll have to endure before it gets done right?

 

29th in payroll does not tell me that the organization is interested in winning over higher profits.

 

Even more sad is that Chris Johnson now makes more than DOUBLE of our starting WR, LT, QB, and RB combined.

[Nevergiveup]

Dont let today sway you...as far as I can remember I dont recall you ever getting any flack for posting inside information.

 

I didn;t think there was much to debate about what I said today. Boy was I wrong. I will check back in the future and try to be a little more careful. Just got caught up in the board. Some people would rather believe what they want to believe. Should have known better.

[26TrapDraw]

How many more games do you win with him this year?

NGU I myself have followed this board religiously for a few years. I know you have a strong connection to the organization and your anonymity is fine by me. I do however have a dead serious question. Why is it that you believe that the Bills are interested more in saving salary cap money than putting a better product on the field when all that the loyal fans of the bills in the western New York area and abroad have supported this team financially as well as emotionally for the past ten years with little to show for it. Understand I respect your position here but out of sheer frustration I feel i must ask this question to someone who actually might have a connection or an ear inside the organization. I appreciate any kind of light you can shed on this.

[ieatcrayonz]

First of all I never said it was or wasn't a salary dump. What is wrong with people? Even if it was, it would have nothing to do with Overdorf. I don't know how to be any more specific than that. Salary is always a consideration for any team, but that is not how the deal was initiated. He didn't want to be here. It is young team with no hope for the playoffs and he wouldn't be here when they were ready any way. A 4th rounder is not enough, but they were not going to get any more. Why does there aways have to be a big mystery. I really have nothing else to provide on this topic. You can think whatever you want.

 

 

You can be more specific by saying who initiated it. That's how. Or you can say "I'm not at liberty to say who initiated it." Saying you are being specific while talking in generalities is more like something a politician would do than what you have done in your past visits to the board.

 

In this post, after a whole day, you are saying that Evans initiated it after handicapping the Bills chances for himself. That is specific. It was awful nice of the Bills to grant him his wish to their own detriment and that of their fans. Did he hand pick the Ravens?

 

 

jw's article implied that Overdorf had something to do with the trade. He did not say it was initiated or demanded by Overdorf. Overdorf could have simply delivered the message from ??? to Nix/Gailey. This would be consistent with jw's article. Anyone with a 3rd grade reading ability should be able to figure that out. You clearly have that ability as do over 80% on the non-Canadian posters on this board. IMO that is why the shots across jw's bow seem so strange to many people here.

 

 

EDIT: The other thing that bugs me about a couple of your posts today......and it has nothing to do with you/jw.......you keep saying that Evans wouldn't be around by the time we are a playoff caliber team. Well geez is it an 8 year plan because I would think that Lee has about 5 productive years left in him or thereabouts. I think an expansion team in Topeka would have a shot at the playoffs in 5 years.

 

 

 

Someone will catch you up.

 

He has absolutely given credible information about Bills moves on multiple occasions and has been 100% or nearly 100% accurate.

Edited September 4, 2011 by ieatcrayonz

[Typical TBD Guy]

jeremy2020 speaks the truth, except for the part about Sullivan.

 

Nobody deserves that.

 

Approximately half of the posters on this message board are actually different log-in names of Jerry Sullivan's.

[Beerball]

Can't give you my name, but my job is post credible information for fans that want it.

It's your job? Under who's employ?

[wnyguy]

It's your job? Under who's employ?

 

 

SDS pays him, under the table.

[GG]

 

And no matter how you spell his name, he has no inside info. That is not an attack, it is just the way it is. He can still keep writing his stories and you can keep reading them. Everyone is hung up on the inside info term.

 

What is your definition of inside info?

 

If jw spoke with Evans, his agent & others involved in the trade (maybe getting the scoop from Baltimore's AP hack) wouldn't that qualify as inside?

 

Maybe there was something different about this trade for a reporter who's covered the team for a decade to include the Overdorf tidbit in the story?

 

Why was this story different than the others?

[notwoz]

 

 

He has absolutely given credible information about Bills moves on multiple occasions and has been 100% or nearly 100% accurate.

 

I'm not questioning his accuracy. I asked him what his job is. After all. we know what JW's job is. I also know how to spell his name. It's W-A-W-R-O-W. It's only six letters. It's not that difficult.

[shrader]

It's your job? Under who's employ?

 

And more importantly, how does one get this job where you get to post on a message board... oh wait, never mind. That's what I do at work already.

[jahnyc]

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, I think I understand the following from NGU and Mr. Wawrow:

 

1. The organization is dysfunctional and it starts at the top.

 

2. We are years away from making the playoffs and even our owner does not believe we are close (and this is the reason he is not spending more freely on free agents).

 

3. No one knows if there is a plan to sell the team to a local group if RW passes.

 

Not good.

[clancynut]

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, I think I understand the following from NGU and Mr. Wawrow:

 

1. The organization is dysfunctional and it starts at the top.

 

2. We are years away from making the playoffs and even our owner does not believe we are close (and this is the reason he is not spending more freely on free agents).

 

3. No one knows if there is a plan to sell the team to a local group if RW passes.

 

Not good.

 

 

Unfortunately this confirms what many Bills Fans have feared, but have suspected all along.

[DanInUticaTampa]

from this thread, it looks like NGU misunderstood an article by JW that he didn't read, but gathered the info from other posters?

 

I mean, I remember that article. I don't remember it saying that Overdorf was behind the trade. I remember it saying he "handled" the trade, but that is completly different. Why are people arguing semantics?

 

And NGU, I like you and all, but I when halftime wrote this:

 

I am curious where you think JW reported that Jim Overdorf was behind the trade. The article did not state this nor did JW state this in any post that I read. The original article states:

 

"Nix didn't handle trade talks, leaving that job with Jim Overdorf, the team's salary cap specialist and senior vice president of football administration."

 

Since then many board posters have concluded that this sentence means that Jim Overdorf made the decision to trade Lee Evans. Jerry Sullivan also made this interpretation. Perhaps you should be directing your disdain and misspelling of a writer's name at Jerry Sullivan, or the board posters who read the above sentence to say something that it does not? Usually when someone writes that Nix "left that job" with someone, it means that Nix made the decision and delegated the execution.

 

It makes me feel that you are attempting to provoke JW, not necessarily to leave the board, but to issue a clarification to the article that he already declined to clarify. I know you started by saying you are not trying to provoke, but if that is not your intent, you are not accomplishing your intent.

 

then you said:

 

If that is the case, there is nothing to argue about

 

There really is no "if" about it. The article never calls overdorf the triggerman, or the guy that made the call on the trade. And people on the boards reacted like it was part of the "ralph is cheap" conspiracy.

 

I like you a lot, and appreciate all the inside info. But if you misunderstood "overdorf handled the lee evans trade" to be "overdorf made the call to trade lee evans," then I think you made a mistake with misunderstanding something or not reading the full article.

 

Kelly has nagged you to be more specific about how the trade was handled. Really because, if overdorf did handle the trade, but didn't pull the trigger, then JW's article is correct and not untrue like you suggest. He doesn't even go on to call it "inside information" either. That overdorf comment was a very small part in a long article that talked about numerous things. It wasn't headline news he was putting up.

 

imo, this was a misunderstanding on your part that just lead to more misunderstandings on everyones part. It seems people are not even sure what they are arguing about, including you. And I might be misunderstanding the arument as well, since I just quickly read through it in the past 15 minutes.

[stony]

After perusing the pages for a minute, this is my take...

 

 

Ron Burgundy:"Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast."

Champ Kind:"It jumped up a notch."

Ron Burgundy:"It did, didn't it?"

Brick Tamland:"Yeah, I stabbed a man in the heart."

Ron Burgundy:"I saw that! Brick killed a guy! Did you throw a trident?"

Brick Tamland:"Yeah, there were horses, and a man on fire, and I killed a guy with a trident."

Ron Burgundy:"Brick, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You should find yourself a safe house or a relative close by. Lay low for a while because you're probably wanted for murder. I'm proud of you fellas. You kept your head on a swivel and that's what you gotta do when you find yourself in a vicious cockfight!"

[clancynut]

I'm not questioning his accuracy. I asked him what his job is. After all. we know what JW's job is. I also know how to spell his name. It's W-A-W-R-O-W. It's only six letters. It's not that difficult.

 

 

Based the past actions of the Bills owner, if NGU were to give out his or her job description, they would be looking for another one very quickly.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

And no matter how you spell his name, he has no inside info. That is not an attack, it is just the way it is. He can still keep writing his stories and you can keep reading them. Everyone is hung up on the inside info term. I know how I define it, but you can define it however you like.

 

Honestly this seems like semantics. Once information is given to a reporter, for the purposes it basically ceases to be inside info. Besides, I don't read and judge articles in the press based on whether they disclose inside information. I read them based upon whether they tell me something about the Bills that I did not know before I read the article. For example, there was an article in the Buffalo News today describing the Bills' contract values and cash payout amounts. I did not know that information before I read the article. It features on the record quotes by Russ Brandon presenting the team's position on its cash management and pay practices. This is not inside info, because it is on the record attributed information. That does not mean it is not useful or interesting information.

 

Similarly, the articles from John Wawrow have featured a phone interview with Ralph Wilson. This is an example of how you define inside information. Since Mr. Wilson was aware that he was speaking to the AP reporter and that his statements would be on the record, it was not "inside" information because it was intended for distribution. Also, you could state accurately that JW was only reporting what Mr. Wilson wanted to tell him, and if the owner chose not to tell him something, he would not know it. On the other hand it was an exclusive interview, and the average fan has no access to speak to Ralph Wilson. As such, it does not matter whether this is considered inside information - it is useful information (in my opinion) that the average fan would otherwise have no access to.

 

So - if by "inside" you mean "internal discussions not intended for distribution outside Bills' top brass" or "information prior to its official release date" then it would be accurate to say that this information only comes to the press if it is leaked by someone, and this does not happen often with the Bills. On the other hand an article which reports on the Bills, and contains information not widely presented in other media outlets, where that information is not obvious and not accessible to the average fan, is useful information for those following the team. This is why people perceive reporters such as JW to have inside information - they are reporting information which otherwise we would never know so it might as well be "inside" information, whether intentionally disclosed to them by the team or not.

 

I believe that neither side in this situation is going to want to concede anything and I hope that both NGU and JW continue to participate in the board through other discussions, even if they decide to mutually dislike each other. Like many other posters I would prefer to have contributions from both here on TBD.

[john]

I am not hear to rile anyone up. I stand by my record. If John Warrow has a history of posting accurate inside information, I would love to hear about it. Of course someone could have told him that Jim Overdorf was behind that trade. For him to believe and report it shows he knows less about the inner workings of that organization than most of the people on the board. Your relationships there are superficial at best and I am quite confident that no one is feeding you any legitimate inside information. If it was someone outside the team, like Lee's or his agent, you should know better. Amazing that you all of a sudden have a pipeline into the team that would disclose something like that. More importantly it is completely inaccurate. Go ahead and stand by your report if it makes you feel better, but to believe it is hopefully just ignorance and not worse.

 

He comes the journalistic integrity battle cry. Yes I am sure you are completely above reproach. And not revealing my identity does not make me wrong. I think I have been pretty accurate in the past.

 

I apologize to the board. I am not trying to drive away someone you might want to pariticpate. However if you think you are getting inside info from him or anyone of the other beat writers for this team, you are wrong.

 

not revealing your identity does not make you wrong. all it does is make you a coward. FWIW.

John Richtarik

[altruisticbillsfan]

What is an NGU?

[john]

Late to the party, and it may have been said but damn this thread is ten pages already...but I'm pretty sure that JW is the only guy in the whole country who still gets quotes from Ralph himself so saying that he has no inside sources and he never has is quite a bit off base.

well said Erik. NGU and people like him need other people's approval to pump up his ego and make him feel important. the best thing to do is to ignore him from now on. he isn't worth the time it took to read this post.