cantankerous Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I agree with him. The extra point is ridiculous. What say you? http://profootballta...n-extra-points/ edit - Also, since the Bills don't score many touchdowns, and have Brad Smith...we should just go for 2 every time. (devil emoticon) Edited August 23, 2011 by cantankerous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Agree. Only need for two-point conversion. There is something lame about winning/losing a game on an extra-point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 We should just simulate every game on madden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If they were going to consider that, why not just make all touchdowns equal and eliminate any point after attempt? I guess you lose the late game drama of an attempted 2 point conversion to tie it up, but I could live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 If they moved it back to the 20 yard line as Belichick suggested, that would make it more interesting. Give the scoring team a choice between... A) Kicking a 1 point attempt from the 20 yard line (37-38 yard kick) or B) Going for the 2 point conversion from the 2 yard line. It would create more drama as it's likely more 2 point attempts would be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If they moved it back to the 20 yard line as Belichick suggested, that would make it more interesting. Give the scoring team a choice between... A) Kicking a 1 point attempt from the 20 yard line (37-38 yard kick) or B) Going for the 2 point conversion from the 2 yard line. It would create more drama as it's likely more 2 point attempts would be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Let's eliminate extra points, field goals, kick-offs and punts, and rename the game Fieldball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Although it's not really an option here, it's worth mentioning what they do in rugby. First, in rugby a touchdown (worth 5) isn't scored until you touch the ball down on the ground (leaving open the dramatic possibility of being pushed back or out of bounds). Second, the extra point (worth 2) is a sort-of unopposed drop-kick from the 22. But that's not the interesting bit. The interesting bit is that the spot of the kick on the 22 isn't from the center of the field (making it easy), but rather from where the ball was touched down in the endzone. That means you really prefer to score in the middle of the field, because if you score in the corner you are kicking from the 22 close to the sideline. In addition to being a much farther kick, the angle of the goal posts is so narrow that you practically need to curve the kick in. In all, it introduces much more excitement and drama. If you are down by 7 in the closing minutes, diving into the corner of the endzone may or may not be enough... Edited August 23, 2011 by finknottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I was happy with the way Football was being played...Prior to all the "illegal" hits, two hand touch the QB, and shortened kick offs. Edited August 23, 2011 by BillsInMaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaPolian8693 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If they moved it back to the 20 yard line as Belichick suggested, that would make it more interesting. Give the scoring team a choice between... A) Kicking a 1 point attempt from the 20 yard line (37-38 yard kick) or B) Going for the 2 point conversion from the 2 yard line. It would create more drama as it's likely more 2 point attempts would be made. This is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I would rather Eliminate Belicheck and his "Patsies", but I guess thats not part of the option here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I was happy with the way Football was being played...Prior to all the "illegal" hits, two hand touch the QB, and shortened kick offs. Yeah, that's how I have felt about Freddie the last few years as well If it ain't broke, !@#$ off I was happy with the way Football was being played...Prior to all the "illegal" hits, two hand touch the QB, and shortened kick offs. Yeah, that's how I have felt about Freddie the last few years as well If it ain't broke, !@#$ off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I say we eliminate sideline hoodies with the sleeves cut off. Look how great the elimination of the kickoff return turned out. They should just keep on changing this game. Change is awesome! Let's make field goals beyond 50 yards 3 points! That'd be so frikkin cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Two words, commercial time ($) It could certainly be more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 this seems to come up every preseason. the main problem, of course, is that if you move the line of scrimage back for the PAT, then you take away the ability for the offense to fake a kick and run a 2 point conversion play. beliceck, (as much as i hate to say it) is certainly right though. the 1 point kick is absolutely meaningless, and any misses can be attributed to a fluke/bad luck/etc., rather than a lack of skill by any position player. when the margin for error is +/- 1%, the need to have the play is completely meaningless. and the nfl certainly knows this and would have addressed it by now, if not for the fact of the 2 point conversions needing to be run from very close to the goal line, to make them worth the gamble. none of the proposed solutions have seemed clean and logical (to me) thus far, which i assume is why the kick is still in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) this seems to come up every preseason. the main problem, of course, is that if you move the line of scrimage back for the PAT, then you take away the ability for the offense to fake a kick and run a 2 point conversion play. beliceck, (as much as i hate to say it) is certainly right though. the 1 point kick is absolutely meaningless, and any misses can be attributed to a fluke/bad luck/etc., rather than a lack of skill by any position player. when the margin for error is +/- 1%, the need to have the play is completely meaningless. and the nfl certainly knows this and would have addressed it by now, if not for the fact of the 2 point conversions needing to be run from very close to the goal line, to make them worth the gamble. none of the proposed solutions have seemed clean and logical (to me) thus far, which i assume is why the kick is still in existence. I think that eliminating the kick and simply making the current 2-point conversion a single extra point is the obvious solution. It's called an extra point for more than the obvious reason that it counts for one point, btw. A TD is a full goal and a field goal is a half goal. However, since the TD is so much harder to get, the XP is a bonus incentive to score TDs (e.g., 1 TD plus an XP is worth more than 2 half-TDs (i.e., field goals)). Edited August 23, 2011 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 But if they got rid of the extra point, how would little kids ever learn their multiplication tables for the number 7 (the 2 point conversion has killed that a bit though). I flew through #7 thanks to football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikef272002 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 We should just simulate every game on madden Mr. Goodell, I didn't know you had an account on here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Wait, do I agree with Bill Bellajerksucks about something? :shudder: Especially with the new rules where every scoring play is reviewed, it would be nice to trim some of the boring time after a score (extra point) - maybe if the score is a gimme TV could go right to the commercial while they review the score? Edited August 23, 2011 by Captain Caveman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Although it's not really an option here, it's worth mentioning what they do in rugby. First, in rugby a touchdown (worth 5) isn't scored until you touch the ball down on the ground (leaving open the dramatic possibility of being pushed back or out of bounds). Second, the extra point (worth 2) is a sort-of unopposed drop-kick from the 22. But that's not the interesting bit. The interesting bit is that the spot of the kick on the 22 isn't from the center of the field (making it easy), but rather from where the ball was touched down in the endzone. That means you really prefer to score in the middle of the field, because if you score in the corner you are kicking from the 22 close to the sideline. In addition to being a much farther kick, the angle of the goal posts is so narrow that you practically need to curve the kick in. In all, it introduces much more excitement and drama. If you are down by 7 in the closing minutes, diving into the corner of the endzone may or may not be enough... Are you talking about that cheesy trendy 7 man rugby or the "real" 15 man game? in authentic 15-man rugby you don't drop kick the 2 point conversion. you place it on a tee. in 7s, it is a dropkick. but yeah,backing it straight out from the goal line for the e.p. is the way to resole this. it makes it a lot more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If they moved it back to the 20 yard line as Belichick suggested, that would make it more interesting. Give the scoring team a choice between... A) Kicking a 1 point attempt from the 20 yard line (37-38 yard kick) or B) Going for the 2 point conversion from the 2 yard line. It would create more drama as it's likely more 2 point attempts would be made. But very little opportunity to run a fake for the 2 points or to salvage a bad snap for the 2 points. There's nothing wrong with how it is now, really. I say we eliminate sideline hoodies with the sleeves cut off. Look how great the elimination of the kickoff return turned out. They should just keep on changing this game. Change is awesome! Let's make field goals beyond 50 yards 3 points! That'd be so frikkin cool. Er, they already are...did you mean something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthtobrint Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) But very little opportunity to run a fake for the 2 points or to salvage a bad snap for the 2 points. There's nothing wrong with how it is now, really. How often do either of those things ever happen? It's not worth the risk when there's over a 99% chance of converting on the point. So far the arguments against eliminating the extra point has been a.) I hate Belichick and don't want to listen to him or b.) that's the way it's always been so let's not change it. It is a non-play because it always succeeds. Either just make a touchdown seven points (which it basically is already) or force the team to run a play and actually earn the extra one or two points. Moving the extra point kick farther back is an option, too, but I don't think more of the game should rely on a kicker's foot than it already does. Edited August 24, 2011 by earthtobrint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 but I don't think more of the game should rely on a kicker's foot than it already does. i couldn't respectfully disagree with you more. not just because "its called FOOTball for a reason" or some other similar reason, but the kicking aspect of football is what makes it so much more of a chess match/thinking man's game. a great game, to me, is back and forth battling for field position, get out with a field goal if you're lucky, a touchdown is a game breaker, final score, 13-9. i hate that goodell, in the name of "player safety" is basically doing everything in his power to marginalize the field position battle. it's what the game is all about, being won and lost in the trenches. i don't want to see the league turn into a 49-42 affair every weekend like the nhl is going for. give me the single digit points in single digit weather baby! that's why it would be an encouraging step in the right direction to have extra points kicked 20 yards back, so they did become more meaningfull. maybe you could elect to kick from the 20 for 1 point, or from the 35 for 2 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthtobrint Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 i couldn't respectfully disagree with you more. not just because "its called FOOTball for a reason" or some other similar reason, but the kicking aspect of football is what makes it so much more of a chess match/thinking man's game. a great game, to me, is back and forth battling for field position, get out with a field goal if you're lucky, a touchdown is a game breaker, final score, 13-9. i hate that goodell, in the name of "player safety" is basically doing everything in his power to marginalize the field position battle. it's what the game is all about, being won and lost in the trenches. i don't want to see the league turn into a 49-42 affair every weekend like the nhl is going for. give me the single digit points in single digit weather baby! that's why it would be an encouraging step in the right direction to have extra points kicked 20 yards back, so they did become more meaningfull. maybe you could elect to kick from the 20 for 1 point, or from the 35 for 2 points? How does kicking make football a thinking man's game? If anything it's quite the opposite. Unlike designing and choosing a play, field goals and extra points remove all the other players and coaches from both teams and put the responsibility on one player (Yes I know there are blockers and defenders but very very rarely are field goals/extra points blocked. The players barely put much effort into it). You say games should be won and lost in the trenches, but advocate kicking? But anyways I'm not saying field goals should be removed. I'm not saying that at all. This thread is about the extra points. Also, I completely agree with you that field position battles are important and the kickoff adjustment this season is a joke. It creates another non-play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How often do either of those things ever happen? It's not worth the risk when there's over a 99% chance of converting on the point. So far the arguments against eliminating the extra point has been a.) I hate Belichick and don't want to listen to him or b.) that's the way it's always been so let's not change it. It is a non-play because it always succeeds. Either just make a touchdown seven points (which it basically is already) or force the team to run a play and actually earn the extra one or two points. Moving the extra point kick farther back is an option, too, but I don't think more of the game should rely on a kicker's foot than it already does. Fakes happen. I can't point to a game, but I'll bet Belichick himself has called one. Muffed snaps converted for 2 (or 1 in the old days) also happen. Saying "I like it the way it is," which I do, isn't the same as saying "that's the way it's always been so let's not change it." I like the color of my living room walls; I'm not changing the color because I like it, not because I fear change. And the play doesn't always succeed. That's why they have to try the point. Some really interesting games have occurred where a team has to go for a touchdown to win late rather than a field goal to tie, or to try for two to tie rather than kick for one, because of a missed point earlier. That's one of the reasons why I like it. Would you have the Bills automatically start the season with two losses and the Cheats with two wins because statistically, that's what's supposed to happen? As for the importance of kicking in the game, I'd like to see more emphasis on a kicker's skill, not less, but is moving the PAT back to the 20 really going to change much? Any NFL kicker should hit that with similar regularity. I wouldn't mind wider, college-style hashmarks, and have the point kicked from either the center (if the touchdown was scored in between the hashes) or the hash marks (if outside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Imagine if they had no kickoffs in 99'. We could wipe the Music City Miracle from our memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Fakes happen. I can't point to a game, but I'll bet Belichick himself has called one. Muffed snaps converted for 2 (or 1 in the old days) also happen. Saying "I like it the way it is," which I do, isn't the same as saying "that's the way it's always been so let's not change it." I like the color of my living room walls; I'm not changing the color because I like it, not because I fear change. And the play doesn't always succeed. That's why they have to try the point. Some really interesting games have occurred where a team has to go for a touchdown to win late rather than a field goal to tie, or to try for two to tie rather than kick for one, because of a missed point earlier. That's one of the reasons why I like it. Would you have the Bills automatically start the season with two losses and the Cheats with two wins because statistically, that's what's supposed to happen? As for the importance of kicking in the game, I'd like to see more emphasis on a kicker's skill, not less, but is moving the PAT back to the 20 really going to change much? Any NFL kicker should hit that with similar regularity. I wouldn't mind wider, college-style hashmarks, and have the point kicked from either the center (if the touchdown was scored in between the hashes) or the hash marks (if outside). Uh, no. Extra points are made about 99% of the time. 37 yard field goals are made maybe about 80% of the time. Big, big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If you are going to get rid of something meaningless, get rid of cheerleaders. No one goes along with their cheers (as they do in college ball). People just watch the little cuties flaunting their bodies. Wait, what am I saying? Nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I don't see the need for a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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