apuszczalowski Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Another problem has been with the turn-over at GM and head coach, every new regime wants its own new scheme and new players. This has really set us back. It's not easy going from a Wade Phillips 3-4, to a Gregg Williams 46, to a traditional 4-3, to a Tampa-Two 4-3, and to a traditional 3-4. How many draft picks and FA signings have we wasted solely based on the changes in scheme? Also, I would add that whoever was in charge for the last 10 years, they've drafted like they were a Super Bowl team, making luxury picks, and taking huge gambles on big "upside" guys... This is something you do if you're the Patriots. If you're the Bills, you pick really safe guys. You don't draft McGahee, Spiller, or Lynch in the first round, because you know RB's are a dime a dozen. You don't draft question mark guys like McCargo, Losman, and Maybin in the first round, because you can't afford to bust on a top pick. You stay away from Mike Williams, because you know that Texas college players have a tendency to bust. Exactly. Everytime the Bills don't draft who someone here wanted, or don't sign a big FA, or don't win as many games as a fan thought, its always fire the coach or GM. new coaches and GM's like to bring over new styles/schemes that they are more familiar with. The Bills would have been much further along in their rebuild if they had hired a coach who liked/or was willing to run a Tampa 2 defence. But everyone wanted them to go 3-4 which was probably the hardest change for the team to do because their defensive players were probably the furthest away from being the kind of players needed, and it would take a lot longer for them to draft and find the right players (and evaluate the guys they do have to see who may work in it). It doesn't matter if you draft skill players or guys of need with your picks though, what does matter is that you pick quality players and not guys just to fill a need, especially in the higher spots. The problem for the Bills is that they have either wasted their pick taking guys that are high risk of being a bust (Maybin, McCargo) because they fill a need, or they have taken guys that just don't have the right attitude to play here (McGahee) or off field issues (Lynch). Then theres the odd time where they pick a guy who just didn't work out (Whitner, Poz, Mike Williams, all guys who were rated as good players, but just didn't work out to reach the potential of what we expected of someone who is drafted where they were) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 They all sucked. Case closed. PTR Agreed. A decade of Futility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yah that's right it's all Marv he was here for 2 years but Jauron , Modrak or no one else had any thing to do with it . Mularkey leaving us high & dry no no body else but Marv is to blame GET REAL !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 And without him, there is no team So your choices are to accept this, move on to another team, or pray that Pegulia is or can become the Biggest Bills fan in the world and drills a few more oil wells to be able to pay top dollar to outbid any other bidders when Ralph passes so he can keep the team in Buffalo. Unless of course you have enough money stashed away in your mattress (or enough credit to get a billion dollar loan) to buy them and keep them in Buffalo? Yeah, all hail King Ralph - the man who has given us mediocrity (or worse) for 90% of his ownership. If the team moves when he dies, that's his fault as well. His short-sightedness is his most pervasive trait. Hail. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Now Mr. Wilson would make you believe Butler was responsible according to his public statements in the past where he threw him under the bus but we actually came close to winning in the Butler era, and not to mention the games were exciting to watch. ...now enter Tom Donahoe and a series of horrible personelle, fiscal and management decisions. Under his helm he was responsible for the most horrific drafts this decade (maybe ever in the history of the Buffalo Bills), hired perhaps the worst head coach in the NFL at that time , horrible FA acquisitions and overpaid to boot! (Teague, Villarrial etc). If this wasn't enough the Donahoe era was the most ridiculous gimmick trying football ever! This is the time period a lot of fans were lost. To this day Levy and Jauron are STILL cleaning up his mess. I wonder what Wilson really thinks about that move to hire him? The Donahoe era was waaaayyyyyyyyyy worse than the Butler era. All this said I think we have a competent GM and head coach now...finally. I've revised your post to the 2007 version. The more things change, the more they stay the same. So far, there is no evidence that Nix and Gailey are succeeding any better than Levy/Jauron or Donahoe/Williams, Mularkey. Until I see more than 7 wins out of this duo, I'll remain a skeptic. The 1st season we got 4 wins, this year .500 is still a pipe dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yeah, all hail King Ralph - the man who has given us mediocrity (or worse) for 90% of his ownership. If the team moves when he dies, that's his fault as well. His short-sightedness is his most pervasive trait. Hail. Hail. So why do you stay with the Bills if they have always been (or 90% of the time have been) only mediocre? What else can you do except consider yourself lucky that he has been a good enough owner to not take his team and run at the first chance to make more money and has guaranteed that the team stay in Buffalo until atleast the day he dies? Its not a right to have an NFL team in any location, its a privelege. Most fans don't seem to realise that. If you don't like it, go support a team that gives you the joy you crave. you will find out that life can be a little less miserable if you do that And why should he look past his death? So that the fans that have been wishing he would either die or sell cause they think things will be free spending with a new owner will be happy? He has guaranteed the Bills won't move anywhere until he is gone, has kept the tickets at or near the lowest in the league, and made games affordable for the average fan. I won't think any less of him or blam him just because he won't guarantee that the team will stay in Buffalo past his death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv Levy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Hey, I resent this post!! Edited August 16, 2011 by Marv Levy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Flowers Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Bills paid Evans 1 million dollar roster bonus and 100,000 workout bonus before trading him to Baltimore. Cheap Ralph very cheap- oh wait..... http://twitter.com/#!/adamschefter And you think they did that out of the goodness of their hearts rather than as part of the trade negotiations? He was getting the money from someone - sounds like Baltimore was smart enough to demand the Bills pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 They went 7-9 both seasons under Marv and allowed the fewest sacks in franchise history one season. If you want to blame someone, blame TD. Ralph gave him complete control (which made him hired Marv after TD's reign of terror) and he whiffed on 2 coaches. He also let go of Bledsoe too quick and picked Losman, who set the franchise back 5 years. Marv was far from a great GM but he wasn't close to the train wreck TD was (but he was a Football Guy!!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Absolutely no doubt that ultimately Ralph is to blame for everything... but the Bills officially jumped the shark the day Marv came back as GM. Will they ever recover from the Levy/Jauron debacle of a regime? All hope eventually lies with new ownership IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv Levy Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 When you think back on Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas or any other great football player, do you remember them in the prime of their careers? Or at the end of their careers after their skills had diminished? When Marv's name comes up, I prefer to remember him as the classy leader who led us to four AFC Championships and gave us countless great memories. I've been a Bills fan for 30+ years. The years when Levy was the HC were my favorite. I'm not going to criticize the guy for failed efforts to rebuild the glory of the Bills during his brief tenure as GM. Thank you Hondo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So a guy who headed 2 drafts is responsible for an entire decade? Nice logic. Drafts under him were fair, not great. But he guys they picked under him will be in the NFL for a long time including two guys who made the pro bowl in Lynch and Kyle Williams. Two drafts, two pro bowl players. Guys like Poz and Whitner will be playing in this league for a decade. So he took over for the WORST Bills team in a long time and made it a bit better. The problem with the Bills is constant turnover so every three years a new coaching regime takes over and likes different types of players so that automatically leads to high turnover of a roster. Do you like Fred Jackson, K Williams? Those were pretty good picks over a two year period. If you can get 2-3 quality starts from a draft that is a very good draft. Did they improve the two years he was here....yes they did. Plus taking over a team with JP Losman as your starting QB is a complete recipe for disaster. Was he responsible for the entire decade? No, but he was a big part of it. His drafts were disasters. Only 1 of the 7 players he drafted in rounds 1-3 are still on the team and that player, McCargo, is a bust who is iffy to even stay make the roster. Passing over Ngata for Whitner was a harbinger of the poor decision he made hiring Jauron from the Matt Millen managed Detroit Lions. Jauron had a big hand in the pathetic drafts of 2008 and 2009, so Marv's biggest decision, picking a head coach, had horrible consequences long after he left. Marv Levy wasn't responsible for the entire decade. It is right to respect him for what he did as a coach in getting this team to 4 consecutive Super Bowl appearances, but he was a disaster as a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Honestly whomever thinks this is going to be a quick turnaround can go punt As a poster above mentioned with all the changes in defensive schemes and even on offense, it has just been one rebuild after another with us jettisoning players left and right. Donahoe banned signs from the stadium and there was a lot of ill will from the fans towards the Bills because of his total authority. Like it or not Marv was brought in to restore the fans faith in the organization and to put a face back in charge that the fans would rally behind. Was he a great or good GM? No, but he did step aside after a couple years and the fans were less disgruntled. Who knows maybe he would have been a better GM if he didn't have the Donahoe leftovers of Guy and Modrak eveluating the talent. Marv being a coach, (Parcells is the same way)like certain types of players and looks to fill holes in his roster; as a GM that is what he looked for. McCargo is an example of this, we needed a DT and we reached to fill the position. I recall that Parcells wasn't big on drafting LT, he wanted someone else to fill a hole, but the GM at the time said too bad, this guy is going to be a player and that is what you are going to get. Things didn't get this way over night and they won't get much better quickly. Last season was really an evaluation of what we had talent wise; which wasn't much. This was evidenced by working with Trent all the way through camp and giving him 2 live games to prove himself. Nix and Gailey had no idea what they had or didn't have in the roster. Last year's draft didn't have much of Nix's influence at all as a bulk of the scouting was already done by Modrak et al. Hopefully, Nix was still able to decipher the crap and the players we took will develop. This past draft was all Nix and Gailey. Now more players will continue to be weeded out and younger players added. there is no need to go after free agaents right now, because this roster, overall, is still devoid of talent. Will (insert x players name here) be around in another 3 years when we are ready to compete? It is wasteful at this moment in time to go after impact players, we are not going anywhere. This should slowly change next year and the year after, when we hopefully have talent. Right now, yeah we are going to suck, we have to develop the young guys and see what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 When you think back on Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas or any other great football player, do you remember them in the prime of their careers? Or at the end of their careers after their skills had diminished? When Marv's name comes up, I prefer to remember him as the classy leader who led us to four AFC Championships and gave us countless great memories. I've been a Bills fan for 30+ years. The years when Levy was the HC were my favorite. I'm not going to criticize the guy for failed efforts to rebuild the glory of the Bills during his brief tenure as GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Now Mr. Wilson would make you believe Donahoe was responsible according to his public statements in the past where he threw him under the bus but we actually came close to winning in the Donahoe era, and not to mention the games were exciting to watch. ...now enter Marv Levy and a series of horrible personelle, fiscal and management decisions. Under his helm he was responsible for the most horrific drafts this decade (maybe ever in the history of the Buffalo Bills), hired perhaps the worst head coach in the NFL at that time , horrible FA acquisitions and overpaid to boot! (Walker, Dockery etc). If this wasn't enough the Levy ara was the most dry, boring, conservative football ever! This is the time period a lot of fans were lost. To this day Nix and Gailey are STILL cleaning up his mess. I wonder what Wilson really thinks about that move to hire him? The Levy era was waaaayyyyyyyyyy worse than the Donahoe era. All this said I think we have a competent GM and head coach now...finally. Totally true. I was praying he would select Mike Sherman who was a winning HC in Greenbay and new how to run the rock and have a great passing game. The only reason he was out at GB was because he couldn't get to the SB to which they took his GM responsibilities away and the next year went 8-8 and he was out the door just waiting for us to scoop him up. Also at that time Dom Capers was available and was hoping we would get him as a DC. He was never a great HC but his work as a DC with Pittsburg and now Greenbay is outstanding (maybe we would have drafted Clay Matthews instead of Maybinot). Man we would be SB contenders by now but here is hoping we have a offensive draft next year and can finally be perennial playoff contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 i think it lies with ralph. the late 80's early 90's, seem like an eternity ago, as do the knox years, and finally, the mid-60's AFL champion years. all were successful , enjoyable seasons. however, over the course of 50 years, it is just unacceptable! there is a common thread to all of the three afore-mentioned success periods:they were followed by ralph getting pissy with polian, knox, and saban. i dont think the man can stand success. letting polian walk ranks right up there with the trade of daryle lamonica, as all time bills blunders! the fault is ralph and his mgmt style, or lack thereof.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Totally true. I was praying he would select Mike Sherman who was a winning HC in Greenbay and new how to run the rock and have a great passing game. The only reason he was out at GB was because he couldn't get to the SB to which they took his GM responsibilities away and the next year went 8-8 and he was out the door just waiting for us to scoop him up. Also at that time Dom Capers was available and was hoping we would get him as a DC. He was never a great HC but his work as a DC with Pittsburg and now Greenbay is outstanding (maybe we would have drafted Clay Matthews instead of Maybinot). Man we would be SB contenders by now but here is hoping we have a offensive draft next year and can finally be perennial playoff contenders. An honest question and not a gotcha: Who ended up hiring Mike Sherman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So why do you stay with the Bills if they have always been (or 90% of the time have been) only mediocre? Loyalty. Not stupidity. What else can you do except consider yourself lucky that he has been a good enough owner to not take his team and run at the first chance to make more money and has guaranteed that the team stay in Buffalo until atleast the day he dies? Ralph has made plenty of money. Spare me the sob story for a multi-millionaire who's basically an absentee scrooge. Its not a right to have an NFL team in any location, its a privelege. Most fans don't seem to realise that. If you don't like it, go support a team that gives you the joy you crave. you will find out that life can be a little less miserable if you do that My life isn't miserable. The ability to see reality as it is doesn't make me miserable. And this "privelege" has been paid for, quite dearly, by the populace of WNY. And why should he look past his death? So that the fans that have been wishing he would either die or sell cause they think things will be free spending with a new owner will be happy? Because successful people tend to understand both legacy and consequence. Ralph has made a pile of money, mostly it seems, in spite of himself. No one said anything about a new owner being "free spending". That doesn't equal success, either. He has guaranteed the Bills won't move anywhere until he is gone, has kept the tickets at or near the lowest in the league, and made games affordable for the average fan. I won't think any less of him or blam him just because he won't guarantee that the team will stay in Buffalo past his death He hasn't "kept tickets at or near the lowest in the league" for any reason other than that is what the market for his ****ty football team will bear. If the BILLS were the Patriots, he would be charging a king's ransom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARCO186 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I can agree that Marv is to blame many things on with the Bills, but not 10 years worth. Marv had nothing to do with Williams or Tom, but I do blame him for the DJ time and now. The reasoning why is because when they brought in Dick, we switched to a 4-3. Since then we have been playing catch up. The drafts were just horrible and just now starting to get better. I think that most if not 99% of the people on this board can easily say it's not all Marv and just being named Marv gets a pass on this board. It was he who helped bring this team up from nothing and brought them to glory. I would really think twice about bashing Marv because of what he he did to the Bills. If he failed, he did so with his head up high so I can easily forgive him for not producing an outstanding team. The one I blame the most of is Ralph Wilson. All fingers need to start at the top, but he has kept the Bills in Buffalo so how much bashing can you do to someone who kept a team in Buffalo when he could have moved long ago? Very tough thread of bashing people because if they weren't around at all, the Bills wouldn't be around so I guess this is a typical thread of bash people for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Marv is the best thing that EVER happened to the Buffalo Bills Open your eyes people and B word about kelsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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