\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Juror will talk - for a price: http://www.tmz.com/2011/07/06/casey-anthony-juror-paid-interviews-lawyer-trial-murder-child-caylee-anthony-network-money-jury/ Porn star Casey: http://www.tmz.com/2011/07/06/casey-anthony-porn-movie-vivid-entertainment-xxx-movie-lawyer-offer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Ironically, the things she was found guilty of, lying to the police, repeatedly, only extended the time it took to find a body, and, in this case, her lying helped her. So, crime does pay, sometimes. Great lesson learned. Whether she killed that baby, or it was an accident, or somebody else killed the baby...I have no doubt that Casey Anthony knows what happened, and who is responsible. Another thing I find ironic, Casey's mother, perjured herself under oath. If that charge was pursued (and I know it won't be...why extend this farce and embarass the courts any more?), she could face up to 15 years in prison. It's funny(no, not really) but, I usually avoid these trials and keep my BS opinions to myself.. However, a cold & bad weather kept me in the house last weekend and I watched a lot of the trial coverage. It was the tapes of Casey talking to her family that makes me certain she murdered Caylee. If you've ever met a parent that recently and suddenly lost a child, their devastation is palpable. Casey's "surprise, surprise" comment told me she wasn't bothered by Caylee's death at all. The prosecution did terribly with what little they had and the jury acquitted Casey. I understand that... But, this family is filled with lying scumbags that need to be slapped around. If I was the prosecutor, any charge that I could make stick against Casey, Cindy or George, I'd make it my mission to get them the maximum possible... Although, I'm a vindictive p***k by nature and have zero legal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Juror will talk - for a price: http://www.tmz.com/2011/07/06/casey-anthony-juror-paid-interviews-lawyer-trial-murder-child-caylee-anthony-network-money-jury/ If I was one of those jurors, I might just agree to speak for free to screw that guy out of a payday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 (edited) It's funny(no, not really) but, I usually avoid these trials and keep my BS opinions to myself.. However, a cold & bad weather kept me in the house last weekend and I watched a lot of the trial coverage. It was the tapes of Casey talking to her family that makes me certain she murdered Caylee. If you've ever met a parent that recently and suddenly lost a child, their devastation is palpable. Casey's "surprise, surprise" comment told me she wasn't bothered by Caylee's death at all. The prosecution did terribly with what little they had and the jury acquitted Casey. I understand that... But, this family is filled with lying scumbags that need to be slapped around. If I was the prosecutor, any charge that I could make stick against Casey, Cindy or George, I'd make it my mission to get them the maximum possible... Although, I'm a vindictive p***k by nature and have zero legal experience. Too bad the DA didn't go along with the defense, when the defense was asking for a mistrial. hat is so bad about the jurys decision, Casey Anthony can not be charged again in this case. If, say, somebody decided to look into the father, George, and his connection to his homocide, I wonder, could Casey even be a witness? It just seems like the verdict (or maybe the DA's "overcharege" demadning the death penalty) insures that somebody in that house will get away with murder. That is so fugged up, when you know it absolutely had to be 1 of 2 people. That said, I don't fault the jury. As in the OJ Simpson case, those observing from outside the jury bench were privy to more information. The defense attorney did a masterful job of casting doubt on the states case...no doubt Jose Baez will be hosting his own show on one of the "news" networks in the next year...what is particularly galling, to me, is all the pundits, after the fact, disagreeing with the jury verdict, but then going on about how "great the American justice system is"...how is this great for anyone, other than Casey Anthony, Jose Baez and his team? It may not be on monumental importance, but, bigger picture, it just makes the level of cynicism about American justice a little deeper. And you just can't lose sight of the fact that an innocent child got treated like a piece of trash, by her own blood. Edited July 6, 2011 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Too bad the DA didn't go along with the defense, when the defense was asking for a mistrial. hat is so bad about the jurys decision, Casey Anthony can not be charged again in this case. If, say, somebody decided to look into the father, George, and his connection to his homocide, I wonder, could Casey even be a witness? It just seems like the verdict (or maybe the DA's "overcharege" demadning the death penalty) insures that somebody in that house will get away with murder. That is so fugged up, when you know it absolutely had to be 1 of 2 people. That said, I don't fault the jury. As in the OJ Simpson case, those observing from outside the jury bench were privy to more information. The defense attorney did a masterful job of casting doubt on the states case...no doubt Jose Baez will be hosting his own show on one of the "news" networks in the next year...what is particularly galling, to me, is all the pundits, after the fact, disagreeing with the jury verdict, but then going on about how "great the American justice system is"...how is this great for anyone, other than Casey Anthony, Jose Baez and his team? It may not be on monumental importance, but, bigger picture, it just makes the level of cynicism about American justice a little deeper. And you just can't lose sight of the fact that an innocent child got treated like a piece of trash, by her own blood. Think about it. Is this really the best legal system out there? People overseas I bet will tell ya different. I do fault the jury. One had a DWI, one didn't even finish HS. One said she had a hard time judging people. The Defense won this case at jury selection. They got some really dumbass people it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Think about it. Is this really the best legal system out there? People overseas I bet will tell ya different. I do fault the jury. One had a DWI, one didn't even finish HS. One said she had a hard time judging people. The Defense won this case at jury selection. They got some really dumbass people it seems. Funny you say that, because the perception from observers was that the jury was slanted toward the prosecutors. All were death penalty proponents, which was taken to mean they would be more likely to find her guilty. As for the quality of the jury, do you really think someone with a DWI, or who doesn't have a high school degree should be eliminated from consideration for jury duty? With those standards, you would have a great deal of difficulty finding a jury in almost any jury trial. I really can't fault the jury. We all have a pretty strong feeling that she is guilty, but, as cliche as it is, the burden of proof was with the state, and they simply couldn't prove the case, physically. They couldn't establish the cause of death, and really didn't have strong physical evidence...just very strong circumstantial evidence. Of note...hearing rumors that Casey Anthony will be coming to live with us here in Texas, with an aunt...we get to add Casey Anthony and Glen Beck to our population Edited July 7, 2011 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 That's a big part of it, but I think any time a mother kills her kid(s), it's a big story. Tehre's no way that several crimes in every city are of this ilk. A dead child whom the police believe parent(s) is/are responsible? Yeah, every city.. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Id rather live in a country that mistakenly lets 1 high-media-profile murderer go every 15 years, than live in a country where people can easily be falsely accused and wrongly imprisoned. There is going to be error one way or the other, it's the Human Factor. No one, and nothing, is perfect 100% of the time. I think America errs on the right side. Sad in this case, even tragic. But if you want to see your other options, check out what happens to people in China. I agree with this. Once mob rules and people can be judged on popular opinion rather than fact, were screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I agree with this. Once mob rules and people can be judged on popular opinion rather than fact, were screwed. I would agree with that, but, people are wrongly imprisoned pretty regularly, and people get away with things regualarly. So, I just think you have to take it on a case by case basis, and hope you get a lot more things right than you do wrong. It s a less than perfect system. I am thouroughly convinced this woman is guilty of more than just lying to police. She knows what happnened to her child. That said, the jury followed their instructions, and came up with the verdict that they did. At least two jurors, already, have said they don't feel like she is innocent, but they weren't even sure what the crime was (was it pre-meditated murder, or was it covering up a death, after an accident?), so they couldn't sentence her to death. And, I understand that. If the prosecuters weren't bent on going for the death penalty, we might have had a different outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 That's a big part of it, but I think any time a mother kills her kid(s), it's a big story. Tehre's no way that several crimes in every city are of this ilk. I can think of three in the past few years down here. Only difference I can see is that they weren't white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I can think of three in the past few years down here. Only difference I can see is that they weren't white. Not all mothers necessarily, but THREE cases of parents killing their children from THIS MONTH (which is only 7 days old)... Father charged in death of 2 yr old TWO Children found dead in car The Classic "Mom's Boyfriend" None of them are little white kids though, so no need to have "Porchlight Vigils", these kids dont count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not all mothers necessarily, but THREE cases of parents killing their children from THIS MONTH (which is only 7 days old)... Father charged in death of 2 yr old TWO Children found dead in car The Classic "Mom's Boyfriend" None of them are little white kids though, so no need to have "Porchlight Vigils", these kids dont count. Yeah a lot of things don't seem to count. Like with all the flash mobs going on. Didn't really hear about it until I read about it on this board. If they were white kids robbing black run stores or beating blacks it would be the lead story on every network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yeah a lot of things don't seem to count. Like with all the flash mobs going on. Didn't really hear about it until I read about it on this board. If they were white kids robbing black run stores or beating blacks it would be the lead story on every network. The media knows exactly which buttons to push to rile the dummies that follow them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 It's funny(no, not really) but, I usually avoid these trials and keep my BS opinions to myself.. However, a cold & bad weather kept me in the house last weekend and I watched a lot of the trial coverage. It was the tapes of Casey talking to her family that makes me certain she murdered Caylee. If you've ever met a parent that recently and suddenly lost a child, their devastation is palpable. Casey's "surprise, surprise" comment told me she wasn't bothered by Caylee's death at all. The prosecution did terribly with what little they had and the jury acquitted Casey. I understand that... But, this family is filled with lying scumbags that need to be slapped around. If I was the prosecutor, any charge that I could make stick against Casey, Cindy or George, I'd make it my mission to get them the maximum possible... Although, I'm a vindictive p***k by nature and have zero legal experience. You know when I had my NCAA tournament party that first Friday in the morning I was getting all setup. The wife was going to work a half day & then come home at 11 & take my daughter shopping. Well I am lugging the keg down in the basement, get it tapped & I poured 1 beer. Could not of been more then 3-4 minutes. Go upstairs to check on my daughter who was watching Dora the Explorer & could not find her. Never been so panicked in all my life. Went upstairs check the bedrooms could not find. I took some ice off the pool cover the night before & put it on the keg to keep it cold overnight & now I am thinking I must of forgot to shut the gate to the pool & she is probably floating on top of the pool cover. Run downstairs & check the pool, not there thank god. Now I am hysterical. Running around the neighborhood screaming her name. Can not find. Now I am thinking someone must of came into the house & took her. I had the front door open with just the screen door closed. Wife calls & she tries to calm me down. She was like if you can not find her in a few minutes you got to CALL THE POLICE. She says I will be home in five minutes. Just when I hung up the phone I hear some giggling under my bed. Sure enough it was my daughter. I wanted to yell at her but I could not. Just held her for about the next 20 minutes. My point is, this is how I know Casey & possibly the one or both of the parents did something to that little girl. Anybody that has been a parent & cares for the kids do not wait 30 days to notify the police. That whole scenerio that happened to me probably took no more the 10 MINUTES & I was ready to call the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Well, one of the reasons (not the only I am sure) these other cases don't make as much noise as the Anthony trial, is that the parents are arrested, and go down without a fight. Most confess to their crime, or plead insanity. So, there isn't a lot of nuance. This case started like most of these type cases, volunteers searching for a missing child. I suspect, in most cases, the defendent didn't go to the extrodinary measures that Casey Anthony did, to mislead the investigators. That is part of the reason this story took on such a huge profile, because it got extended for what seemed like years...primarily becuase the defendant was leading everyone on wild goose chases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not all mothers necessarily, but THREE cases of parents killing their children from THIS MONTH (which is only 7 days old)... Father charged in death of 2 yr old TWO Children found dead in car The Classic "Mom's Boyfriend" None of them are little white kids though, so no need to have "Porchlight Vigils", these kids dont count. There was a case here in the past week where a mother left her kid (2 years old or so, I don't recall exactly) in the car while she went to work. Kid died from the heat of course. The kicker was that the kid was in the car because she apparently drops the kid off at day care on her way to work...but she was running late that day, and forgot the kid was in the car... But the REAL kicker was: it was the second time she'd done that. The first time was in the early spring, so the kid wasn't hurt, and the cops just cited her for endangerment and left it at that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Well, one of the reasons (not the only I am sure) these other cases don't make as much noise as the Anthony trial, is that the parents are arrested, and go down without a fight. Most confess to their crime, or plead insanity. So, there isn't a lot of nuance. This case started like most of these type cases, volunteers searching for a missing child. I suspect, in most cases, the defendent didn't go to the extrodinary measures that Casey Anthony did, to mislead the investigators. That is part of the reason this story took on such a huge profile, because it got extended for what seemed like years...primarily becuase the defendant was leading everyone on wild goose chases. True. Most of the chatter Ive seen around this case comes from other parents who outraged/disgusted/etc by her behavior and the lack of cooperation. Understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I did not expect here to be found guilty. The standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and there just wasn't enough evidence as to how the child died, and the da's case painted her not only as rotten human being but was so over the top as to lead one to reasonably conclude she had some psychotic break after the child died, and there was no proof showing how she died or that the mother did it. That doesn't mean she didn't do it, just that there wasn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt that she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 That doesn't mean she didn't do it, just that there wasn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt that she did. Which happens all the time, no? They never were able to charge that Dutch kid in the Nataile Holloway case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I did not expect here to be found guilty. The standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and there just wasn't enough evidence as to how the child died, and the da's case painted her not only as rotten human being but was so over the top as to lead one to reasonably conclude she had some psychotic break after the child died, and there was no proof showing how she died or that the mother did it. That doesn't mean she didn't do it, just that there wasn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt that she did. It's a good thing for her that she wasn't tried in Italy, where they convict American girls of murder for having sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 It's a good thing for her that she wasn't tried in Italy, where they convict American girls of murder for having sex after helping to kill their roommate. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 link If anyone has followed the case I'd be interested in what you think of the verdict. It was obvious that the prosecution didn't have a case. The chloroform was circumstantial evidence, as nobody knows if it was used on Caylee. Also, nobody knows if the duct tape was used prior to death or after it. Furthermore, if she did do it, she is probably a sociopath, meaning an accomplice probably dumped the body, as she would have no reason to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movinon Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 There was a case here in the past week where a mother left her kid (2 years old or so, I don't recall exactly) in the car while she went to work. Kid died from the heat of course. The kicker was that the kid was in the car because she apparently drops the kid off at day care on her way to work...but she was running late that day, and forgot the kid was in the car... But the REAL kicker was: it was the second time she'd done that. The first time was in the early spring, so the kid wasn't hurt, and the cops just cited her for endangerment and left it at that... She has been indicted on felony murder and child neglect. http://www.wtop.com/?nid=120&sid=2448720 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) With all due respect to everyone out there in regards to the Casey Anthony trial. Putting someone to death without sufficient evidence is improper. Anyone that watched 100% of this trial would know that there was just to many unanswered questions and to much doubt to reach a guilty verdict. The death penalty in itself is unethical, because despite any admonitions from the Judge or State it is impossible to block out sentencing during deliberations when someones life is on the line. Myself personally, two wrongs don't make a right, its not what God would want and its not what Caylee Marie Anthony would want despite the sinister circumstances surrounding her death. The trial itself was well governed/ by the book with exceptional attorneys/arguments from both sides. Edited July 7, 2011 by Fig Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Which happens all the time, no? They never were able to charge that Dutch kid in the Nataile Holloway case. Actually charging them is quite easy...its the convicting them that's hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43666041/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/court-casey-anthony-be-released-july/?fb_ref=story_text&fb_source=home_multiline She will be released July 13th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43666041/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/court-casey-anthony-be-released-july/?fb_ref=story_text&fb_source=home_multiline She will be released July 13th. Over/under on the number of steps she makes it down the jailhouse stairs before some wackjob tries to shoot her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Over/under on the number of steps she makes it down the jailhouse stairs before some wackjob tries to shoot her? And they'll do it on camera, and in front of many witnesses. And then be sent to jail. And then the dummies will cry about "How come this person is in jail and Casey isnt?!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Ok, the trial is over and she is found "not guilty" what are they doing to find the real killer? Are they going to continue to investigate? it is too new to be a cold case? Someone has to pay for this, as a parent you know she did this. There may not be a mountain of evidence but this girl is guilty of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Ok, the trial is over and she is found "not guilty" what are they doing to find the real killer? Are they going to continue to investigate? it is too new to be a cold case? Someone has to pay for this, as a parent you know she did this. There may not be a mountain of evidence but this girl is guilty of something. They dont have enough evidence to convict anyone. "Real killer" or not. It's not like the OJ case where there was a ton of evidence and they just needed to find the person that fit. They simply have nothing to go on. So no, there will most likely be no further investigation. Your statement "Someone has to pay for this" intrigues me, but Im not sure how to comment on it without sounding like I think the death of a little girl is no big deal. Not sure there is any way that they can satiate the public's "outrage". We're just going to have to suck it up and move on. Edited July 7, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They dont have enough evidence to convict anyone. "Real killer" or not. It's not like the OJ case where there was a ton of evidence and they just needed to find the person that fit. They simply have nothing to go on. So no, there will most likely be no further investigation. Your statement "Someone has to pay for this" intrigues me, but Im not sure how to comment on it without sounding like I think the death of a little girl is no big deal. Not sure there is any way that they can satiate the public's "outrage". We're just going to have to suck it up and move on. Pretty Fkn sickening isn't it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Pretty Fkn sickening isn't it.... Yes and no. If you are looking at it from a purely "Justice for this little girl must be served" standpoint, then yes, definitely tragic and disgusting. But if you are looking at it from a Government/Rights perspective, then the system worked exactly how it is supposed to in order to protect the innocent. It's what makes commenting on all of this very precarious. One wrong word and people are labeled as defending a baby-killer, which no one is. Edited July 7, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Over/under on the number of steps she makes it down the jailhouse stairs before some wackjob tries to shoot her? For safety reasons Casey Anthony will be released into the community at an undisclosed location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They dont have enough evidence to convict anyone. "Real killer" or not. It's not like the OJ case where there was a ton of evidence and they just needed to find the person that fit. They simply have nothing to go on. So no, there will most likely be no further investigation. Your statement "Someone has to pay for this" intrigues me, but Im not sure how to comment on it without sounding like I think the death of a little girl is no big deal. Not sure there is any way that they can satiate the public's "outrage". We're just going to have to suck it up and move on. Satiating the public's outrage has nothing to do with justice. All that is about is vengeance- which is nothing but evil. Every bit as evil as the initial act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) They dont have enough evidence to convict anyone. "Real killer" or not. It's not like the OJ case where there was a ton of evidence and they just needed to find the person that fit. They simply have nothing to go on. So no, there will most likely be no further investigation. Your statement "Someone has to pay for this" intrigues me, but Im not sure how to comment on it without sounding like I think the death of a little girl is no big deal. Not sure there is any way that they can satiate the public's "outrage". We're just going to have to suck it up and move on. They do have enough evidence to prove, I think, that somebody who had access to the Anthony home committed this murder, or, went way out of their way to cover up an "accident". What little physical evidence they do have, all leads back to that house. Edited July 7, 2011 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 For safety reasons Casey Anthony will be released into the community at an undisclosed location. The image that just popped in my head is her being shoved out of windowless van on a street corner. Anyone else think the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They do have enough evidence to prove, I think, that somebody who had access to the Anthony home committed this murder, or, went way out of their way to cover up an "accident". What little physical evidence they do have, all leads back to that house. With all do respect Buftex, what physical evidence do you deem actually leads back to the Anthony house If you don't mind my asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 They do have enough evidence to prove, I think, that somebody who had access to the Anthony home committed this murder, or, went way out of their way to cover up an "accident". What little physical evidence they do have, all leads back to that house. There the tragedy will always stay, in the house. The greatest tragedy is that while the system worked this time and perhaps let a guilty person go free there has been too many times where the innocent have been incarcerated. To all: Does it matter more if one guilty person is found innocent or one innocent person is found guilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Satiating the public's outrage has nothing to do with justice. All that is about is vengeance- which is nothing but evil. Every bit as evil as the initial act. Agreed completely, 100%, but was trying to tread lightly and choose my words carefully with this touchy subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in Pasadena Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I just saw the local sheriff's presser and he was pleading with the public to not resort to violence because of this verdict. Did the Sheriff begin his remarks with "Oh please, Br'er Fox..." ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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