2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Green Bay pretty damn good with all their injuries and a consensus franchise QB. New England...not so much but you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game and it pains me like you wouldn't believe to say that. What's your point? The point I got from it was that cold weather, warm weather or no weather you just have to be good to win. Cold weather teams win championships without much of a running game...it just happened a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Just because Spiller didn't have a good rookie season doesn't mean he wasn't highly touted coming out of college. He was one of the most electrifying collegiate players throughout his career at clemson. Spiller was a BPA pick whether or not you like it. Great play in college doesn't always translate into being worthy of an early draft slot. If you don't believe me, ask Greg McElroy (who I wish we took in round 7 but I digress). You keep calling him the bpa, but he played poorly. Will he always be the bpa, even if he is out of the league in 2 years? And btw, if Newton would have fell to us, I would have been happy. I don't always insist on "fat guys." The problem is, the Bills, led by Levy/Jauron, neglected the lines to the point where any sane fan could see what was wrong. Obviously, Nix did too. And, there is more work to do, but we have a chance at a solid defense this year. Amazing how different it looks now that Levy/Jauron are out of town, no? Sorry if I hit on a sore spot. The point I got from it was that cold weather, warm weather or no weather you just have to be good to win. Cold weather teams win championships without much of a running game...it just happened a few months ago. OK, but look at your signature! Running and stopping your opponent from doing so will always matter, especially in the elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) You keep calling him the bpa, but he played poorly. Will he always be the bpa, even if he is out of the league in 2 years? I don't understand what you are getting at. Obviously you can go back and change the order of who the best players were in every draft from every year. Different publications do it all the time. It doesn't take away from the players grade or projection at the time of the draft or that it's short sighted to analyze a draft after only one season. This seems like a foolish argument because there is no way to know the correct answer but it's not like Spiller was a choice from left field who wasn't expected to go that high. Edited May 12, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Great play in college doesn't always translate into being worthy of an early draft slot. If you don't believe me, ask Greg McElroy (who I wish we took in round 7 but I digress). You keep calling him the bpa, but he played poorly. Will he always be the bpa, even if he is out of the league in 2 years? And btw, if Newton would have fell to us, I would have been happy. I don't always insist on "fat guys." The problem is, the Bills, led by Levy/Jauron, neglected the lines to the point where any sane fan could see what was wrong. Obviously, Nix did too. And, there is more work to do, but we have a chance at a solid defense this year. Amazing how different it looks now that Levy/Jauron are out of town, no? Sorry if I hit on a sore spot. OK, but look at your signature! Running and stopping your opponent from doing so will always matter, especially in the elements. Greg McElroy was one of the best offensive college players in recent history, too? I can't BELIEVE he lasted until the 7th round. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Greg McElroy was one of the best offensive college players in recent history, too? I can't BELIEVE he lasted until the 7th round. GO BILLS!!! Yeah, comparing Spiller's college career to a game manager like McElroy is like comparing Adrienne Lima to Rosie O'donnell. The great thing about drafting a college kid is they sign for more than one year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Great play in college doesn't always translate into being worthy of an early draft slot. If you don't believe me, ask Greg McElroy (who I wish we took in round 7 but I digress). You keep calling him the bpa, but he played poorly. Will he always be the bpa, even if he is out of the league in 2 years? And btw, if Newton would have fell to us, I would have been happy. I don't always insist on "fat guys." The problem is, the Bills, led by Levy/Jauron, neglected the lines to the point where any sane fan could see what was wrong. Obviously, Nix did too. And, there is more work to do, but we have a chance at a solid defense this year. Amazing how different it looks now that Levy/Jauron are out of town, no? Sorry if I hit on a sore spot. OK, but look at your signature! Running and stopping your opponent from doing so will always matter, especially in the elements. Spiller was the BPA at the time. He was basically universally rated high. You can't re-rank rookies coming out of college after they have played in the pros. How a player ranks coming out of college reflects his potential to be successful in the NFL. If a player doesn't pan out, it doesn't mean that they weren't thought of as the BPA at the time they were drafted. So yes, Spiller was a BPA pick. You're clinging to this ridiculous conspiracy theory that Ralph made the pick because it was a skill position. What happens next year when Nix picks a skill player in round 1. Will your argument all of a sudden change back into "Ralph made the pick"? Again, i will bet anything that Nix and Gailey had the exact same input and pick power when they picked Spiller than when they picked Dareus. They took the best player rated on their board, which is how successful teams draft (with the exception of QBs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest three3 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 dwayne wright and linda bogdan would co-sign this powerful thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 How's Green Bay's running game? Or New England's? Well it gets you blitzed to death by the jets and one and done in the playoffs and without James Starks Greenbay doesn't make the superbowl. Still have to run in this league to win even though they are doing all they can to turn it into the Arena league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 If a player doesn't pan out, it doesn't mean that they weren't thought of as the BPA at the time they were drafted. So yes, Spiller was a BPA pick. These 2 sentences contradict each other. How can you not see this? Spiller was obviously not the best player available because someone thought he was, or because you want him to be. He had a lousy season last year and was not the best at anything. And, he played at perhaps the only position at which we had some depth. Picking him was stupid, check the w/l record and see. Was Jamarcus Russell the best player available when he was drafted? Of course not; he was a flop!!! General Managers are paid a lot of money. The good ones like Newsome draft good players. This is what makes them good. If all one had to do was listen to Mel Kiper, etc., everybody would draft players based only on where others ranked them. Is thia what you want the Bills to do? Ask Al Davis how he feels about the 35 or 40 million he spent on Russell. Will he tell you it's fine, Russell was the best player available, and ranked high? Was Whitner the bpa? How about McKelvin, Losman or Maybin? Were they "ranked" high enough for you to call their picks worthy and sane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 These 2 sentences contradict each other. How can you not see this? Spiller was obviously not the best player available because someone thought he was, or because you want him to be. He had a lousy season last year and was not the best at anything. And, he played at perhaps the only position at which we had some depth. Picking him was stupid, check the w/l record and see. Was Jamarcus Russell the best player available when he was drafted? Of course not; he was a flop!!! General Managers are paid a lot of money. The good ones like Newsome draft good players. This is what makes them good. If all one had to do was listen to Mel Kiper, etc., everybody would draft players based only on where others ranked them. Is thia what you want the Bills to do? Ask Al Davis how he feels about the 35 or 40 million he spent on Russell. Will he tell you it's fine, Russell was the best player available, and ranked high? Was Whitner the bpa? How about McKelvin, Losman or Maybin? Were they "ranked" high enough for you to call their picks worthy and sane? So what the Bills need to do is simply wait and see how a player's career is going to turn out before drafting them. I wonder why they hadn't thought of this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 And on the flip side, if Darius doesn't perform well in the NFL for whatever reason, it does not mean he was a bad choice, or wasn't BPA. Then again, absent a reason, like injury, the scouts should have a pretty good idea how college players will perform in the NFL, on their team. That is exactly what scouting is. For Spiller, he's had a single year. Give him a chance. It's way too early to say he was a bad pick. He could still be one of the all time great Bills. (...or be out of the league in 3 years. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Just because Spiller didn't have a good rookie season doesn't mean he wasn't highly touted coming out of college. He was one of the most electrifying collegiate players throughout his career at clemson. Spiller was a BPA pick whether or not you like it. But continue on your "only draft fat guys in round 1" tirade, because that's all this thread is really about. You're not really interested in hearing other opinions. Nix drafted Spiller. Nix drafted Dareus. He had the same input on both selections. To think otherwise is the height of foolishness and shows you have nothing more than an axe to grind. No he wasn't. Dez Bryant probably had a higher grade whether you liked it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 dwayne wright and linda bogdan would co-sign this powerful thread You want Goofy? Here’s a little story about Wilson, from sources who were in the draft room: In 2007, the Bills were on the clock in the fourth round and deciding which player to take, when the owner suddenly blurted out, “What about the running back from Fresno State? Is he available?” The team’s personnel men looked at one another; they had already used their first-round pick on a halfback, Cal’s Marshawn Lynch. One of them bit his tongue and informed Wilson that, yes, Dwayne Wright was still on the board. “We’re taking him,” Wilson said, and that was that. He’s currently third on the team’s depth chart, behind Lynch and fellow second-year back Fred Jackson. I'd never heard that story before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I would like to point out that while Byrd's INt's decreased by a lot last year the man did force 3 fumbles, showing that he still has a nose for the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 No he wasn't. Dez Bryant probably had a higher grade whether you liked it or not. I think Dez had a few issues that detracted from his grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think Dez had a few issues that detracted from his grade. There were some questions about his mama, which led to much lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) There were some questions about his mama, which led to much lol. Major questions about his upbringing along with questions about his maturity, work ethic, & consistency. Not to mention a 10 game NCAA suspension for lying to NCAA investigators. And it seems like some of those questions are being answered with his issues at the Dallas mall. These 2 sentences contradict each other. How can you not see this? Spiller was obviously not the best player available because someone thought he was, or because you want him to be. He had a lousy season last year and was not the best at anything. And, he played at perhaps the only position at which we had some depth. Picking him was stupid, check the w/l record and see. I don't give the Bills fault for drafting him if they felt he was the best available player. As of right now it has turned out he wasn't but we're only one season in. I guess we'll have to wait a few years to find out if they were right. Edited May 13, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 So what the Bills need to do is simply wait and see how a player's career is going to turn out before drafting them. I wonder why they hadn't thought of this before? No, and this is where we can meet in the middle imo. They need to draft GOOD PLAYERS! Should they mix in need to the equation? Absolutely!!! For all we know, there were hall of fame running backs, wrs, etc. drafted after Dareus. It is possible. But, if Dareus is a very good DT at #3, he will be the best player for US. He will have filled a huge need AND been a very good player. In other words, the Bills might actually have a strong defensive front this season. The fact that this is even possible is a huge leap imo. We didn't need to draft another situational this year. Can we at least agree on this? Need does enter in at some point. When the Bills are strong on both lines and are happy wrt the qb situation, this would be the time to grab some stud wr or rb early. maybe even a defensive back. But, we have proven that these guys are all but useless on a weak team, and hopefully we are changing this losing mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I don't give the Bills fault for drafting him if they felt he was the best available player. As of right now it has turned out he wasn't but we're only one season in. I guess we'll have to wait a few years to find out if they were right. That's not a very high standard. Certainly, someone felt strongly that Aaron Maybin was the best player the day they drafted him. Whether or not there is some zeitgeist that a particular player is "the best" or not isn't really the point. Who cares indeed. The evaluation must include whether the guy drafted actually becomes a good player or not. For the Bills, they have consistently and repeatedly failed to draft guys that were even average players, though they undoubtedly thought highly of them all. In short, the issue isn't the grade on draft day. The issue is in incorrectly determining what grade to give. Popularity doesn't determine greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trolls_r_us Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 all you people gushing about Nix and Chan need to remember one thing: THEY WORK FOR MR. WILSON, PERIOD. Nix is high up in the organization, he is NOT "the boss." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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