How in the name of God does Phil Hansen...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well that's what virtually everyone's been saying through this thread.

 

The Wall of Fame is a collection of Ralph's favorite employees.

 

You're right…it's not a meritocracy…it's only pretending to be.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

go up on the Wall before Cornelius Bennett. Phil Hansen was a nice player, but he played in 0 Pro Bowls. Bennett? Try 5 Pro Bowls, 3 FIRST TEAM NFL ALL-PROS, 1990's All-Decade team, 1988 AFC Defensive player of the year. All of this w/ the Bills. I hate to say it, but you could bring up the race card on this one and I'd be hard-pressed to argue w/ it. Not to mention, Bennett played before Hansen. It's kind of crazy. And yes I know, Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist as well.

 

Maybe next year we put up Jeff Wright and Glenn Parker.

[Dragonborn10]

If the best they can do is Hansen, then they should just skip a year.

 

i'll take your word for it that he balked, but once he was in there, he was a terror. and he definitely spent a hell of a lot more time in coverage than some of the other elite libs of the day.

 

anyone remember his first game? it was like watching TNT on the field. talk about first step. he was in the backfield in a nanosecond. you knew right then that polian made the right deal.

I was there! Elway called time-out when they lined Biscuit up on the same side as Bruce! It was the loudest ovation for a time-out in the history of the NFL!!! Good times...

[Bob in STL]

Indeed!

 

 

How about #42 who still leads the team in picks!

 

I would have put #42 Butch Byrd ahead of #24 Booker Edgerson. I put them both ahead of Robert James who only played a few season of football. All were great players no doubt.

[metzelaars_lives]

i'll take your word for it that he balked, but once he was in there, he was a terror. and he definitely spent a hell of a lot more time in coverage than some of the other elite libs of the day.

 

anyone remember his first game? it was like watching TNT on the field. talk about first step. he was in the backfield in a nanosecond. you knew right then that polian made the right deal.

 

I was at his first game. IIRC, it was 1987 at home vs. Denver and the Bills won 21-14 by virtue of 2 TD's, a FG and 2 safeties, one of which was by Bennett? Yeah it was insane.

[metzelaars_lives]

My opinion:

 

1) Some of our message board members are obviously too young to remember Phil Hansen. He wasn't just a "nice player." He was a consistent pass rusher and one of the most dependable players in the team's history. Bennett may have been the flashier guy, but he absolutely wasn't as consistent as Hansen was. Hansen represented the Bills better than Bennett did, in my personal opinion.

 

2) Bennett and the Bills parted on bad terms in '98 (before the season); the Bills put a franchise tag on John Fina, and Bennett (too stupid to realize being franchised is actually not an advantage) said it was a "slap in the face" that they considered John Fina to be their "franchise player," and not Bennett. He did not go out as a "friend" of the team.

 

3) No one says the Wall of Fame has to go in order of how good a player is. It isn't a descending order of greatness. They aren't going to make a list of the best players, #1-20, and then just go down the list numerically. It's subjective. Just like the Hall of Fame.

 

4) The reason Polian hasn't been put on the WOF is because he has been a GM WITH ANOTHER TEAM. They aren't going to put someone on the WOF that is currently with another franchise. Now that he's passed it to his son, and once he distances himself from Indy, maybe he'll do so. Saban will never go up there -- NEVER. And while he was a great coach, let's not forget that he quit on the team twice. You have to factor that in.

 

I love Phil Hansen, and although Bennett was a great player for the team, Hansen was one of the best players on those Bills teams, and one of the best all-time Bills players. If you don't remember him, you either were too young to know who he was, or you weren't paying attention. My personal opinion.

 

Wow I must really be getting old if people are calling out other people on here for not remembering Phil Hansen. I in fact called Phil Hansen a "nice player." Clearly Phil Hansen holds a lot of sentimental value for you, but the bottom line is that if he was as good you're making him out to be then he would have went to at least one Pro Bowl. Plain and Simple. Now I feel bad for degrading Hansen, who I happen to like a lot.

 

Now I will concede that I go back to '85. That was my first year I started going to games. I've seen Steve Freeman play, Jerry Butler and the two-headed monster of Mathison and Ferragamo. I also started collecting football cards that year, so I got a Ferguson from the '84 season, but never saw him play. So you know where I'm comin from. At any rate, question for the elder statesmen on here: why in the world is Gilchrist not on the WOF? I actually thought this would be his year considering he just died and everything.

[Buftex]

Wow I must really be getting old if people are calling out other people on here for not remembering Phil Hansen. I in fact called Phil Hansen a "nice player." Clearly Phil Hansen holds a lot of sentimental value for you, but the bottom line is that if he was as good you're making him out to be then he would have went to at least one Pro Bowl. Plain and Simple. Now I feel bad for degrading Hansen, who I happen to like a lot.

 

Now I will concede that I go back to '85. That was my first year I started going to games. I've seen Steve Freeman play, Jerry Butler and the two-headed monster of Mathison and Ferragamo. I also started collecting football cards that year, so I got a Ferguson from the '84 season, but never saw him play. So you know where I'm comin from. At any rate, question for the elder statesmen on here: why in the world is Gilchrist not on the WOF? I actually thought this would be his year considering he just died and everything.

 

 

My Bills years start in 1972, being born in 1965, I missed out on those old AFL teams. However, I can tell you, Cookie Gilchrist left the Bills on very bad terms, and had a grudge agaist Ralph, and the Bills, for decades, until he passed away.

From all that I have read of Gilchrist, as great as he was, he sort of set himself apart from his teammates, in an era where that really had no place. IIRC, he took himself out of a game during the 1964 season, becasue he didn't like Saban's play calling. Saban suspended him the next day...Jack Kemp had to convince Saban to let Cookie back. They won the championship that year, and Cookie was a huge part of that...it didn't help though. Saban shipped Cookie off to Denver in the off-season.

 

At a time when black athletes were not as predominant as they are today, Cookie really stood out, and was never afraid to speak up. When the AFL had their All-Star game in New Orleans, black players were openly being discriminated against, by the locals. Cookie, it is said, grew infuriated when he tried to hail a cab...when two or three passed him, a cabbie finally told him, "you have to find a colored cab". There were other stories, of black players having guns pulled on them by doormen at clubs, etc etc...

 

Pissed, as rumor has it, Cookie gathered other black AFL All-stars togehter, and organized a sit-out on the game. To their credit, numerous white AFL all-stars said that they, too, would refuse to play the game, if their black teammates were not afforded the same treatment as them. The AFL, in a panic, moved the game, at the last minute, to Houston.

 

The Bills had tried to reach out to Cookie in recent years, but his venom toward Wilson and the Bills hadn't subsided. He said he would be more than willing to appear at Bills alumni events, only if he got paid.

 

Different times...I have heard/read football writers from the 60's say that Cookie Gichrist may have been every bit as good as Jim Brown (generally considered the greatest football player in the modern era), but his off the field controversies overshadowed his amazing on field performance.

 

if it were up to me, Cookie and Lou Saban (who also left the team on bad terms, resigning in the middle of a season) would go up on the WOF before anyone. But, it is Mr Wilson's perrogative...

 

I was at his first game. IIRC, it was 1987 at home vs. Denver and the Bills won 21-14 by virtue of 2 TD's, a FG and 2 safeties, one of which was by Bennett? Yeah it was insane.

 

 

I was there too! 1987 and 1988 were great seasons...back in my season ticket days. Of course, moved away after the 1989 seson...my impeccable sense of poor timing!

Edited May 6, 2011 by Buftex

[dwight in philly]

My Bills years start in 1972, being born in 1965, I missed out on those old AFL teams. However, I can tell you, Cookie Gilchrist left the Bills on very bad terms, and had a grudge agaist Ralph, and the Bills, for decades, until he passed away.

From all that I have read of Gilchrist, as great as he was, he sort of set himself apart from his teammates, in an era where that really had no place. IIRC, he took himself out of a game during the 1964 season, becasue he didn't like Saban's play calling. Saban suspended him the next day...Jack Kemp had to convince Saban to let Cookie back. They won the championship that year, and Cookie was a huge part of that...it didn't help though. Saban shipped Cookie off to Denver in the off-season.

 

At a time when black athletes were not as predominant as they are today, Cookie really stood out, and was never afraid to speak up. When the AFL had their All-Star game in New Orleans, black players were openly being discriminated against, by the locals. Cookie, it is said, grew infuriated when he tried to hail a cab...when two or three passed him, a cabbie finally told him, "you have to find a colored cab". There were other stories, of black players having guns pulled on them by doormen at clubs, etc etc...

 

Pissed, as rumor has it, Cookie gathered other black AFL All-stars togehter, and organized a sit-out on the game. To their credit, numerous white AFL all-stars said that they, too, would refuse to play the game, if their black teammates were not afforded the same treatment as them. The AFL, in a panic, moved the game, at the last minute, to Houston.

 

The Bills had tried to reach out to Cookie in recent years, but his venom toward Wilson and the Bills hadn't subsided. He said he would be more than willing to appear at Bills alumni events, only if he got paid.

 

Different times...I have heard/read football writers from the 60's say that Cookie Gichrist may have been every bit as good as Jim Brown (generally considered the greatest football player in the modern era), but his off the field controversies overshadowed his amazing on field performance.

 

if it were up to me, Cookie and Lou Saban (who also left the team on bad terms, resigning in the middle of a season) would go up on the WOF before anyone. But, it is Mr Wilson's perrogative...

lou saban not on the wall only lends credence that the wall is not necessarily a collection of "all-time great buffalo bills", but a reflection who ralph feels is worthy. that is why i am in agreement with the poster who said, "why have a wall of fame committee" ?

Edited May 6, 2011 by dwight in philly

[billsfreak]

I think alot of people are taking this too seriously, the order they go up isn't all that important, and everyone who has followed the Bills knows that Ralph holds grudges against alot of people, and it is my guess that the personality and professionalism of a player is just as important to him as what they did on the field. I mean, as great as Steve Tasker was, and he deserves to be on the Wall of Fame, he did go up before Bruce Smith did, so the order they go in, doesn't mean alot to old Ralphy. If it is up to Ralphy, expect some weird selections for the time he has left, as I would guess he has to put names in a hat, since his memory is long since disappeared.

[CardinalScotts]

This thread is rediculous...

I agree we are not retiring his number or calling him the best bill ever....just a damn good player who played his heart out every week. 11 years same team - only 3 losing seasons not an all time NFL great but one of our last 30years ? Yes.

[Helpmenow]

How about Reggie Mckenzie. Vocal leader and of course part of the electric co.

[dwight in philly]

How about Reggie Mckenzie. Vocal leader and of course part of the electric co.

he certainly was, but again, what is the criteria for consideration, much less selection? i can suggest guys from the early 60's. i feel it is just ralph , in his own mind, reconizing loyalty first and foremost.

[Bufcomments]

Anyways, not meaning any disrespect to the players already on The Wall…but without Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist, it becomes something a lot less than a place to honor the most important people in franchise history.

 

Thank goodness it's a committee or else who knows who Ralph would have put up there if acting alone…Harvey Johnson? Stew Barber?

 

Tom Modrak?

I like Hanson while he was here and played a big role in helping the Bills get to the last 3 super Bowls.

 

But your right. Cookie should be on the Wall. Lou should be based on the fact he was Coach during our only 2 Championships.

 

Wonder if Ralph will do right by Cookie and Lou before he goes upstairs.

[Lurker]

If the best they can do is Hansen, then they should just skip a year.

or "manage your ignored users"...

[dollars 2 donuts]

Yeah, besides the above wasn't there also a charge (dropped later) against Bennett of sexual assault on a minor involving a phrase that I hate hearing even though I am a man...vaginal tearing.

 

I believe it was in that book "Pros and Cons" dealing with convicts in the NFL.

Edited May 6, 2011 by dollars 2 donuts

[Lurker]

if he was as good you're making him out to be then he would have went to at least one Pro Bowl.

The Pro Bowl is a popularity and an "I've heard of him!" contest (as a highly average former Bills LOT has proven in recent years).

 

With Bruce on the otherside making it virtually every year, that worked against Hansen's PB chances as well. It's easy to assume Phil was just a "nice player" who benefited from the talent around him. That assumption is simply wrong, IMO...

 

Yeah, besides the above wasn't there also a charge (dropped later) against Bennett of sexual assault on a minor involving a phrase that I hate hearing even though I am a man...vaginal tearing.

 

I believe it was in that book "Pros and Cons" dealing with convicts in the NFL.

It wasn't a minor...and you've got the wrong hole.

[Greybeard]

Saban should have been up years ago.

 

I believe Saban goes on the first year Ralph doesn't own the team.

[Adam]

Carwell Gardner goes up just for getting Bryan Cox ejected in Buffalo. A priceless memory taunting him as he was forced to leave the field.

But a bad memory- the fans embarrassed themselves by throwing stuff at him, while he was in the tunnel

[Pilsner]

My Bills years start in 1972, being born in 1965, I missed out on those old AFL teams. However, I can tell you, Cookie Gilchrist left the Bills on very bad terms, and had a grudge agaist Ralph, and the Bills, for decades, until he passed away.

From all that I have read of Gilchrist, as great as he was, he sort of set himself apart from his teammates, in an era where that really had no place. IIRC, he took himself out of a game during the 1964 season, becasue he didn't like Saban's play calling. Saban suspended him the next day...Jack Kemp had to convince Saban to let Cookie back. They won the championship that year, and Cookie was a huge part of that...it didn't help though. Saban shipped Cookie off to Denver in the off-season.

 

At a time when black athletes were not as predominant as they are today, Cookie really stood out, and was never afraid to speak up. When the AFL had their All-Star game in New Orleans, black players were openly being discriminated against, by the locals. Cookie, it is said, grew infuriated when he tried to hail a cab...when two or three passed him, a cabbie finally told him, "you have to find a colored cab". There were other stories, of black players having guns pulled on them by doormen at clubs, etc etc...

 

Pissed, as rumor has it, Cookie gathered other black AFL All-stars togehter, and organized a sit-out on the game. To their credit, numerous white AFL all-stars said that they, too, would refuse to play the game, if their black teammates were not afforded the same treatment as them. The AFL, in a panic, moved the game, at the last minute, to Houston.

 

The Bills had tried to reach out to Cookie in recent years, but his venom toward Wilson and the Bills hadn't subsided. He said he would be more than willing to appear at Bills alumni events, only if he got paid.

 

Different times...I have heard/read football writers from the 60's say that Cookie Gichrist may have been every bit as good as Jim Brown (generally considered the greatest football player in the modern era), but his off the field controversies overshadowed his amazing on field performance.

 

if it were up to me, Cookie and Lou Saban (who also left the team on bad terms, resigning in the middle of a season) would go up on the WOF before anyone. But, it is Mr Wilson's perrogative...

 

 

Thanks Buftex for the past info regarding Cookie. I'm still learning about pre 86-87 Bills. Your reflections about him and Saban are helping to fill in the gaps. It does seem like the wall is made up of Ralph's favorite players. I could be wrong but, if this is so, does the wall matter much? The wall should be a place of respect and reverence to those who exhibited the glory in our team. But if it's only made up of great players (who did not besmirch Ralph) then what really is the wall's significance? I want the Wall to be full of the players who have brought out the best in the Bills. If some of the players who should be on the wall (who aren't) have sullied Ralph's ego, then he can go suck it. But since he is the owner he has the prerogative to do as he wishes. If Ralph has only unbiased notions as to who should be on the wall then that is fine too.

 

I like Phil Hansen. I always have had respect for him. He deserves to be on the wall. But others should have gone on the wall before him.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Pilsner

[Greybeard]

 

 

2) Bennett and the Bills parted on bad terms in '98 (before the season); the Bills put a franchise tag on John Fina, and Bennett (too stupid to realize being franchised is actually not an advantage) said it was a "slap in the face" that they considered John Fina to be their "franchise player," and not Bennett. He did not go out as a "friend" of the team.

 

 

My memory of this is a bit different. The Bills were going to franchise Bennett but he told the Bills 'don't worry I'm staying". Then, as soon as he had his freedom, signed with Atlanta.