Roscoe Should he stay or go ?

[I hate the Bills !]

Roscoe Parrish our 2nd round pick in 2005 from Miami.

 

Here are his career numbers from NFL.COM

 

Receptions 133 for 1,486 yards and 7 TD's in 6 seasons or put another way he averages less than 250 and just over 1 TD a year receiving.

 

Punt Returns 130 times he returned the punt and he accounted for 1,576 yards and 3 TD's. He also Fumbled it 10 times during his career on punts only.

 

We all remember his dynamic punt returns and opening day Punt return for a TD of a few years ago, but we haven't seen that guy for a few seasons now.

 

I think more productive talent can be had for the same kind of money. His number say it all, he is below average to average at best.

[apuszczalowski]

Have you watched games or just run to nfl.com for stats?

 

He was having a great year this year until he got hurt with a coach that finally figured out how to use him.

[I hate the Bills !]

Have you watched games or just run to nfl.com for stats?

 

He was having a great year this year until he got hurt with a coach that finally figured out how to use him.

 

 

I've seen every game he has ever played and while he had a better year this year he only has 7 td's in 6 seasons, he has health, speed and height issues. I say move on ad get some fresh meat like an AJ Green from Georgia. The kid is big physical and catches eveything.

[DasNootz]

I've seen every game he has ever played and while he had a better year this year he only has 7 td's in 6 seasons, he has health, speed and height issues. I say move on ad get some fresh meat like an AJ Green from Georgia. The kid is big physical and catches eveything.

So you want to use our 1st round pick (probable top 5) on a WR?

[Nasty]

I've seen every game he has ever played and while he had a better year this year he only has 7 td's in 6 seasons, he has health, speed and height issues. I say move on ad get some fresh meat like an AJ Green from Georgia. The kid is big physical and catches eveything.

We are not going to waste a first round pick on a reciever like A.J. Green unless we trade out of the second pick and land two first rounders then he might be the second of the two but i think Roscoe is our man and we can have him cheap...

[Magox]

There is no doubt that he had his most productive year as of late in regards to his WR play, having said that, we are probably as deep as any other position at the WR spot, with Evans, Johnson, Nelson, Jones and Easley, it wouldn't make sense in my view to resign him, the other guys are good enough to play at an above average level, so I would be somewhat surprised if the Bills locked up Roscoe to a new contract.

[Bill from NYC]

Have you watched games or just run to nfl.com for stats?

 

He was having a great year this year until he got hurt with a coach that finally figured out how to use him.

 

I agree with you, but there is some merit to the OP. Imo, it depends upon just how much money Nix/Gailey/Ralph want to devote to gadget players. Spiller is making a ton of money and isn't going anywhere.

 

Look at it this way: There are individual offensive linemen that might be paid more than every blocker on our roster.....combined. I do not have the time nor desire to do the research, bit it is possible imo. Too much of the Bills salary structure is devoted to tiny little "speedsters," and the team is losing football games.

Also, Nelson is a promising rookie who might be able to deliver more than Parrish. It is possible.

 

 

In any event, I wouldn't be shocked if he stays or if he goes.

[mattsox]

Clear answer is we keep Roscoe. We need as many offensive weapons as we can get. Chan likes him. I'd be surprised if he walks.

[I hate the Bills !]

Clear answer is we keep Roscoe. We need as many offensive weapons as we can get. Chan likes him. I'd be surprised if he walks.

 

 

Thats the problem we have too many cheap players. Cheap means that the majority of teams don't want them and they are not very good. There are exceptions of course. If they Bills are to get better they need better quality players to play better, that costs money. The Bills and their fans need to get out of the cheap mentality and move on to quality. A kid like A J Green makes a hug impact in and gives us a dynamic, big physical receiver. Roscoe is a smurf, who cant take a beating and is slowing down. Move on folks!

[akm0404]

We do not have salary cap issues. We are way under.

 

We do not need to cut salary for any reason.

 

We also do not need to cut/trade our better players. That is hardly how a team recovers from a lack of talent.

[Doc]

He's under contract for another year. You obviously keep him and see what he can do, and then go from there.

[Peter]

Stay.

[DreReed83]

Chan's found a place for him in this offense and was actually have a productive year before he got injured. Keep him. Chan saved him.

 

major typo

Edited December 7, 2010 by DreReed83

[The Big Cat]

Scoe was on pace to double each and every one of his career bests in this competent, functional offense.

 

To look at any of his performances prior to this year in order to evaluate his value to this team is simply preposterous.

[cantankerous]

Of course he stays. He was outplaying Lee Evans before he broke his wrist making a great sideline catch.

[Dorkington]

I'd prefer we keep him, but knowing our luck, he'll not be with Buffalo next year, and have a break out season with someone else.

[....lybob]

I'd keep Evans or Parrish but not both- Nelson and Easley need some chance to develop.

[KD in CA]

Enough with the friggin' midgets and ridiculous excuses for their crappy production. This was yet another awful draft pick (passing on Vincent Jackson). Wouldn't it be nice to just draft some good football players that didn't need some special system to make them remotely serviceable?

 

People want to sign losers like Parish to big contracts and then wonder why the Bills always suck. Good grief!

[CardinalScotts]

Clear answer is we keep Roscoe. We need as many offensive weapons as we can get. Chan likes him. I'd be surprised if he walks.

 

throw the career numbers in the trash can they don't matter. What matters now are his head coach likes him and up until the injury he was have a tremendous year and getting better each game. He's not going anywhere. Get a tight end Chan can work magic with them too when he has a good one- not with the top five pick we have to get a pass rusher either at LB or DE

Edited December 7, 2010 by CardinalScotts

[Bill from NYC]

Enough with the friggin' midgets and ridiculous excuses for their crappy production. This was yet another awful draft pick (passing on Vincent Jackson). Wouldn't it be nice to just draft some good football players that didn't need some special system to make them remotely serviceable?

 

People want to sign losers like Parish to big contracts and then wonder why the Bills always suck. Good grief!

 

Thank you for this.

[Mr. WEO]

throw the career numbers in the trash can they don't matter. What matters now are his head coach likes him and up until the injury he was have a tremendous year and getting better each game. He's not going anywhere. Get a tight end Chan can work magic with them too when he has a good one- not with the top five pick we have to get a pass rusher either at LB or DE

Why can't Chan work any Chan Magic with his first round pick this year?

[KD in CA]

throw the career numbers in the trash can they don't matter. What matters now are his head coach likes him and up until the injury he was have a tremendous year and getting better each game. He's not going anywhere. Get a tight end Chan can work magic with them too when he has a good one- not with the top five pick we have to get a pass rusher either at LB or DE

 

33 catches for 400 yards and 2 scores in half a season is "tremendous"? How about "slightly above average"?

[DaBills51]

Enough with the friggin' midgets and ridiculous excuses for their crappy production. This was yet another awful draft pick (passing on Vincent Jackson). Wouldn't it be nice to just draft some good football players that didn't need some special system to make them remotely serviceable?

 

People want to sign losers like Parish to big contracts and then wonder why the Bills always suck. Good grief!

 

Thank you for this.

 

I really question whether many of you actually watch the games. What is the purpose of bringing past production into the discussion?? Different coach, different player...simple as that. Not only was Roscoe on pace to finish with 800 yards receiving on the year, but was also huge for the Bills in 3rd down situations.

 

Before he was injured Roscoe was tied for 5th in the NFL in 3rd down receptions, and the Bills had one of the highest 3rd down conversion percentages in the league. Also, if you were watching the games, you would have noticed that many of these 3rd down receptions were amazing plays by Roscoe.

 

Off the top of my head I can remember great diving catches against the Bears, Chiefs, and Ravens.

 

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/roscoe_gets_2_catch_of_week/3480921

 

But you guys are right....because Roscoe was poorly utilized in years past we should hold that against him.

 

Also, I would like to apologize for bringing relevant facts into the discussion....I forgot that because Roscoe was short that means that he sucks.

 

33 catches for 400 yards and 2 scores in half a season is "tremendous"? How about "slightly above average"?

 

Those numbers would probably have finished in the top 5 for slot receivers in the NFL. I bet if you were GM the Bills would have three 1,000 yard receivers.

[tennesseeboy]

lets get this straight. Our defensive line sucks and we're not very happy with our linebacking. Our offensive line is a frigging joke. We are 2-10 or whatever without roscoe parrish and we'll solve our problem by letting a guy who was somewhat productive to replace him with a first freakin round draft choice? (AJ Green) It would be a perfect complement to the Spiller pick.

 

NO NO NO...keep Roscoe...fix the lines.

[cmjoyce113]

I've seen every game he has ever played and while he had a better year this year he only has 7 td's in 6 seasons, he has health, speed and height issues. I say move on ad get some fresh meat like an AJ Green from Georgia. The kid is big physical and catches eveything.

 

 

If you call running a 4.44 forty speed issues, your right then he's slow. I don't know that I would call out Roscoe with some of the garbage we have on this team.

[Bill from NYC]

I really question whether many of you actually watch the games. What is the purpose of bringing past production into the discussion?? Different coach, different player...simple as that. Not only was Roscoe on pace to finish with 800 yards receiving on the year, but was also huge for the Bills in 3rd down situations.

 

Before he was injured Roscoe was tied for 5th in the NFL in 3rd down receptions, and the Bills had one of the highest 3rd down conversion percentages in the league. Also, if you were watching the games, you would have noticed that many of these 3rd down receptions were amazing plays by Roscoe.

 

Off the top of my head I can remember great diving catches against the Bears, Chiefs, and Ravens.

 

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/roscoe_gets_2_catch_of_week/3480921

 

But you guys are right....because Roscoe was poorly utilized in years past we should hold that against him.

 

Also, I would like to apologize for bringing relevant facts into the discussion....I forgot that because Roscoe was short that means that he sucks.

 

 

 

Those numbers would probably have finished in the top 5 for slot receivers in the NFL. I bet if you were GM the Bills would have three 1,000 yard receivers.

 

I don't get the need for hostility but so be it.

 

I question whether or not you see scores at the end of games. Have you noticed that we are consistently losing? Also, did you catch the fact that for the last 10 or 15 years, most of the Bills top resources have been allocated to shrimps, simps, and a couple of overpaid blimps?

 

Go ahead and pull out stats that say:

1) Roscoe was a great selection.

2) Bell doesn't give up sacks.

3) Whitner has a lot of tackles.

4) Spiller isn't the only rookie to start out slowly.

 

It might make you feel better but again, we are losing football games. And, one of the main reasons for this is because we are small, weak, and use our best draft selections to take players at positions and talent levels that were a dime a dozen.

 

Other than the above, you raise some great points.

[DaBills51]

I've seen every game he has ever played and while he had a better year this year he only has 7 td's in 6 seasons, he has health, speed and height issues. I say move on ad get some fresh meat like an AJ Green from Georgia. The kid is big physical and catches eveything.

 

I noticed from your posts regarding CJ Spiller and Fred Jackson that you really put a heavy emphasis on TDs. Is there any reason for this...and don't tell me that it's because TDs win games. The fact is, touchdowns come from having a productive offense overall...not one player. You bash Fred Jackson in another topic for his lack of TD's, when in reality, Fred is a pretty good goal line back when given the chance.

 

Notice what I included at the end there....."when given the chance".

 

Hey have any of guys seen that Jamal Charles fella this year....yea he has 1,100 yards rushing and averages 6.2 YPC....but have you seen how many TDs he has??

 

Three!!.....what a scrub.

 

Also, you tried to discredit another poster about Fred Jackson being a viable RB, by regurgitating his YPG average and discrediting his YPC average. Umm.....you do realize that there is a usually a direct relationship between YPG average and the amount of carries a running back has per game.

 

Example:

 

Maurice Jones Drew has rushed for 1,177 yards this year on 261 carries. Now to the most important stats (according to you) YPG and TDs....Jones Drew is averaging 98.1 YPG and has 4 TDs.

 

Fred Jackon has rushed for 663 yards this year on 152 carries. He is also averaging 55.2 YPG and has 5 TDs.

 

And now to the amazing world of math. If you noticed Jones Drew has 109 more carries then Fred Jackson. Believe it or not, that has an effect on his YPG average. Now by multiplying Fred Jackson's YPC average to the number of carries Jones Drew has....4.4 x 261 = 1148.4 yards.

 

Now to compute Jackson's YPG you take that 1148.4 and divide it by 12 which is equal to 95.7....or only 2.4 less than Jones Drew.

 

But...but...how can this be...I though that Fred Jackson is bad because he has a lower YPG average than Maurice Jones Drew.....right??

Edited December 7, 2010 by DaBills51

[DaBills51]

I don't get the need for hostility but so be it.

 

I question whether or not you see scores at the end of games. Have you noticed that we are consistently losing? Also, did you catch the fact that for the last 10 or 15 years, most of the Bills top resources have been allocated to shrimps, simps, and a couple of overpaid blimps?

 

Go ahead and pull out stats that say:

1) Roscoe was a great selection.

2) Bell doesn't give up sacks.

3) Whitner has a lot of tackles.

4) Spiller isn't the only rookie to start out slowly.

 

It might make you feel better but again, we are losing football games. And, one of the main reasons for this is because we are small, weak, and use our best draft selections to take players at positions and talent levels that were a dime a dozen.

 

Other than the above, you raise some great points.

 

I apologize if I am coming off as hostile....I am mainly just getting sick of posters like Philhansonfan who make ridiculous claims and back them up with zero logic.

 

I just don't believe that players should be characterized by simply height and weight. If a player can play they can play. Kyle Williams is undersized for the position he is playing...so should we let go him too?? No, because the guy can play football...and that is all that matters.

 

Using your logic is what led to the Bills drafting James Hardy in the first place. Everyone thought we needed a big tall receiver to help in the red zone....when the fact is, the undersized Desean Jackson (who was taken after Hardy) has outperformed almost all the WRs from that class.

 

And for the record, I hated the Spiller pick and still don't understand it. The only way I can make sense of it, is by believing that Nix and Gailey didn't know what they had in Fred Jackson. Similarly, to the manner in which they mismanaged the QB position this year. I agree with you that the Bills have wasted picks in the 1st round on skill players, but that has nothing to do with cutting Roscoe after the season. I really don't understand how you transformed my stance from defending the value of Roscoe, to defending every undersized player in this organization.

 

I'm too busy to argue the other points right now....I'll try to get back to it after work. But the reason why the Bills aren't a contender isn't because of their size and strength...it's because they don't have the talent. Size + strength does not equal talent. Also, regarding your little quip on if I see the scores on the end of the game. I never knew that Roscoe was the sole reason the Bills were losing....however, taking your advice I decided to look at the scores at the end of the game.

 

Results: Since Fitz took over the Bills were averaging 22.1 PPG when Roscoe was in the lineup. This would have put them at 15th in the NFL.....I know how pathetic.

[billsfreak]

Roscoe Parrish our 2nd round pick in 2005 from Miami.

 

Here are his career numbers from NFL.COM

 

Receptions 133 for 1,486 yards and 7 TD's in 6 seasons or put another way he averages less than 250 and just over 1 TD a year receiving.

 

Punt Returns 130 times he returned the punt and he accounted for 1,576 yards and 3 TD's. He also Fumbled it 10 times during his career on punts only.

 

We all remember his dynamic punt returns and opening day Punt return for a TD of a few years ago, but we haven't seen that guy for a few seasons now.

 

I think more productive talent can be had for the same kind of money. His number say it all, he is below average to average at best.

Why would he go? He was probably one of the biggest threats on offense before he got hurt, he is under contract for another year at a relatively cheap price. You look at his numbers, just remember that DJ refused to use him, even had him inactive for half of the games last year. This team needs alot of help, but you can't dump every player on the team and replace them at the same time. If better talent can be had for less, where is it going to come from? It is easier said than done.

[Grimace]

I don't get the need for hostility but so be it.

 

I question whether or not you see scores at the end of games. Have you noticed that we are consistently losing? Also, did you catch the fact that for the last 10 or 15 years, most of the Bills top resources have been allocated to shrimps, simps, and a couple of overpaid blimps?

 

Go ahead and pull out stats that say:

1) Roscoe was a great selection.

2) Bell doesn't give up sacks.

3) Whitner has a lot of tackles.

4) Spiller isn't the only rookie to start out slowly.

 

It might make you feel better but again, we are losing football games. And, one of the main reasons for this is because we are small, weak, and use our best draft selections to take players at positions and talent levels that were a dime a dozen.

 

Other than the above, you raise some great points.

 

 

Within this thread, I haven't seen anyone make the claim that Roscoe was a great selection.

 

Recent draft history hasn't yielded the results we'd all like to see from our first rounders, and not just in performance and physical attributes, but also in position (DBs and RBs galore). Building a solid team should done through smart drafting.

 

Building a solid team also has to occur through holding on to the talent that we already have, and upgrading where possible. If Roscoe can be more productive than the player behind him on the depth chart, and his signing doesn't prohibit the team from acquiring other productive players (hit the salary cap / no roster spots), then there is no reason to let him go because he was overvalued years ago.

 

The same goes for Whitner, Spiller, and Bell, whom you mention above. Ideally, I'd like to have a pro bowl LT, SS, DE, MLB, and WR. Until we win the lottery, our goal should be holding onto the players at the top of our depth chart and filling the bottom of it with players that could take the starting jobs from them.

 

Draft rookies or find better free agents, and no one will care what happens to past underachievers. Until then, there's no reason to cut the current players.

[Bill from NYC]

Within this thread, I haven't seen anyone make the claim that Roscoe was a great selection.

 

Recent draft history hasn't yielded the results we'd all like to see from our first rounders, and not just in performance and physical attributes, but also in position (DBs and RBs galore). Building a solid team should done through smart drafting.

 

Building a solid team also has to occur through holding on to the talent that we already have, and upgrading where possible. If Roscoe can be more productive than the player behind him on the depth chart, and his signing doesn't prohibit the team from acquiring other productive players (hit the salary cap / no roster spots), then there is no reason to let him go because he was overvalued years ago.

 

The same goes for Whitner, Spiller, and Bell, whom you mention above. Ideally, I'd like to have a pro bowl LT, SS, DE, MLB, and WR. Until we win the lottery, our goal should be holding onto the players at the top of our depth chart and filling the bottom of it with players that could take the starting jobs from them.

 

Draft rookies or find better free agents, and no one will care what happens to past underachievers. Until then, there's no reason to cut the current players.

 

First of all, that is a freaking great screen name for a Bills Fan!

 

Your point is also well taken about letting players go. Losing Milloy led to Whitner at #8, etc. And, Roscoe did look good before he went down.

 

I want to make clear that I am not calling for Parrish to be released (assuming he fully recovers from his injury). I stated that his release wouldn't surprise me. Mr. Wilson will only spend a certain amount of money overall and hopefully this regime, unlike Levy/Jauron, will be unwilling to tie up too much money on gadget players. I am not sure if we have one blocker on the team who makes as much money as Parrish, as sick as this possibility sounds.

 

If there had to be a choice, I would rather tear up the contract of Levitre (notice I didn't say Wood) than extend Parrish, but this is merely my opinion.

[qdawg in philly]

Thats the problem we have too many cheap players. Cheap means that the majority of teams don't want them and they are not very good. There are exceptions of course. If they Bills are to get better they need better quality players to play better, that costs money. The Bills and their fans need to get out of the cheap mentality and move on to quality. A kid like A J Green makes a hug impact in and gives us a dynamic, big physical receiver. Roscoe is a smurf, who cant take a beating and is slowing down. Move on folks!

And how the hell do u know that? Kid hasn't played an nfl down in his life! And if u feel that way bout Roscoe, then get Lee's ass out of here too!!!

 

Enough with the friggin' midgets and ridiculous excuses for their crappy production. This was yet another awful draft pick (passing on Vincent Jackson). Wouldn't it be nice to just draft some good football players that didn't need some special system to make them remotely serviceable?

 

People want to sign losers like Parish to big contracts and then wonder why the Bills always suck. Good grief!

I don't think a loser could ever lead the nfl in punt return average for more than 1 year! But he's a loser, huh??

[akm0404]

If there had to be a choice, I would rather tear up the contract of Levitre (notice I didn't say Wood) than extend Parrish, but this is merely my opinion.

 

There doesn't have to be a choice. The Bills are flush with cash and are way way way under what would have been the cap this year, if it weren't an uncapped season. We are fine cap-wise. The notion that we need to dump salary is absurd.

[qdawg in philly]

lets get this straight. Our defensive line sucks and we're not very happy with our linebacking. Our offensive line is a frigging joke. We are 2-10 or whatever without roscoe parrish and we'll solve our problem by letting a guy who was somewhat productive to replace him with a first freakin round draft choice? (AJ Green) It would be a perfect complement to the Spiller pick.

 

NO NO NO...keep Roscoe...fix the lines.

+1,000,000

[Magox]

There doesn't have to be a choice. The Bills are flush with cash and are way way way under what would have been the cap this year, if it weren't an uncapped season. We are fine cap-wise. The notion that we need to dump salary is absurd.

It's not a matter of cash, it's a matter of depth. With Stevie and Lee we have our #1 and #2 locked down for next season. David Nelson I believe has shown enough in his rookie year to earn the #3 spot for next year, right? Then you have Donald Jones and Marcus Easley. Now I know we haven't seen much of Easley, but he's big, fast and a great blocker, and if you remember the preseason camps, he was performing very well until he was injured. So that means that we very well have five receivers that can play good football for us at the WR spot, and including Roscoe that would make six.

 

It would make a lot of sense to see what we can get for him on the market. If we were able to squeeze out a fourth or fifth, then in my view it is a no brainer considering the talent and depth we have at the WR position.

[T master]

Roscoe led the league a couple of years in a row in punt returns , & has not been known how to be used by other coaches . Finally we have a coach that just this year would probably figured out just how to use Roscoe & he get's hurt & now you want to get rid of him .

 

I would at least give him one more year to see if Gailey has got a place for him in this system , which if this year is any kind of precursor to what Roscoe is able to give this team i think he could be very valuable not just in skill positions but as a depth player in our WR corp.

[thermal]

I've seen every game he has ever played and while he had a better year this year he only has 7 td's in 6 seasons, he has health, speed and height issues. I say move on ad get some fresh meat like an AJ Green from Georgia. The kid is big physical and catches eveything.

 

Thank God you arent the GM. Of anything.

[CardinalScotts]

33 catches for 400 yards and 2 scores in half a season is "tremendous"? How about "slightly above average"?

he was on pace for 66 receptions - Roscoe Parrish with 66 receptions. At the time of his injury his last three games he combined for 19 receptions YES he was getting better every week.

 

Why can't Chan work any Chan Magic with his first round pick this year?

 

it's called blitz pick up, he'll get there and he'll be dynamic

[Peter]

I have never understood the periodic bashing of Roscoe on this site. It took a little bit longer this year than it normally does, but I still do not understand. The guy played well. Roscoe was more productive than our "number one" receiver before Roscoe got hurt trying to make a very difficult catch. He did everything the team has asked him to do. Nevertheless, the Roscoe haters persist in bashing the guy.

 

There is no reason why Roscoe should not be on this team next year.

[NaPolian8693]

turn Spiller into a slot receiver