\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/101510dnmetbooted.285a300.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The hostess probably has a Poly-sci degree and lives in her parents basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The hostess probably has a Poly-sci degree and lives in her parents basement. She's a sports blogger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 It's easy to explain. The workers belong to a generation that have no idea what sacrifices these men made in WW2. Instead of denying them entrance they should have paid for their dinners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I probably wouldn't let a 93 year old guy wearing shorts and a t-shirt in my restaurant either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Those darned WWII vets with their baggy pants on the ground and veteran hats turned sideways. Always lookin like a fool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I probably wouldn't let a 93 year old guy wearing shorts and a t-shirt in my restaurant either. That's only because you think the team will still suck a year from now & you won't want Ralph there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp000085 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 She's a sports blogger? Dare I throw out a name to make the search feature that much more useful for lurking bloggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I think this explains everything in a nutshell: "My honest opinion is she was too young to be able to think on her feet," said Northrop. "She was doing her job, she was professionally dressed and she was not being obnoxious. She was trained well, but this was not an empowered young woman. I'm not sure it ever occurred to her to say, 'Let me go talk to my manager.' " I am continually annoyed by low-level employees denying service/saying no to a special request/etc. A hostess, bartender, waitress, store clerk, etc should be there to try to accommodate the customer. They should be empowered to say "Yes" but should rarely decline or say "No" without trying to help the customer, asking a manager, etc. IMO. Of course there are exceptions. Hell, I prefer they lie to me and PRETEND they are trying to help me out, rather than deny me outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I've been denied entrance into quite a few bars/restaurants because of a business casual dress code. Hell, it happened just last week. What's the big deal? Establishments set dress code standards to try and attract a certain clientele. These guys should do like I do... either take the loaner tie/shirt or take your money elsewhere. The fact that they're WWII vets has little to do with it. I guess that's not PC though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I think this explains everything in a nutshell: I am continually annoyed by low-level employees denying service/saying no to a special request/etc. A hostess, bartender, waitress, store clerk, etc should be there to try to accommodate the customer. They should be empowered to say "Yes" but should rarely decline or say "No" without trying to help the customer, asking a manager, etc. IMO. Of course there are exceptions. Hell, I prefer they lie to me and PRETEND they are trying to help me out, rather than deny me outright. I'll play devils advocate here. You run one of the nicer restaurants in town, and your bread and butter is high end corporate lunches and dinners. Everything about your restaurant is to make those people feel comfortable and come back. And that girl has probably been yelled at once or twice for letting in someone looking a bit grubby. So 5 guys walk in wearing shorts and baseball hats and she says "sorry guys, can't do it". She's making $10 / hour plus tips and the real issue is that she wasn't quick enough to make an exception or say "if you don't mind taking off your hats we'll be all set". If it was anyone other than war vets, nobody would care and would probably agree with her. Personally it is a little annoying when I go to a nice place for a nice dinner and then watch people dressed like slobs come and sit down. Just as big of an issue here is the fact that in today's world an event like this makes the news.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Personally it is a little annoying when I go to a nice place for a nice dinner and then watch people dressed like slobs come and sit down. I've got a subscription to Cruise Travel magazine, and for months, there have been letters written in about the way people are dressing now on ships, primarily in the dining rooms during dinner. Coming in with shorts, t-shirts, and hats. When I went on my cruise, I didn't go the full suit with tie, but I at least had some nice pants and a button up shirt on. And on the formal nights, we would order room service, since I didn't pack my tux (to save room in the suitcase). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I've got a subscription to Cruise Travel magazine, and for months, there have been letters written in about the way people are dressing now on ships, primarily in the dining rooms during dinner. Coming in with shorts, t-shirts, and hats. When I went on my cruise, I didn't go the full suit with tie, but I at least had some nice pants and a button up shirt on. And on the formal nights, we would order room service, since I didn't pack my tux (to save room in the suitcase). I'm not big into the fancy stuff - but if I do go to a nice place I want it to feel nice. Wife and I went to anniversary dinner in NYC a few months ago at a nice place that has a stated jacket policy. Great food, great atmosphere but I'd be lying if I said i wasn't slightly annoyed that a family came and sat down nearby with the kids in jeans and t-shirts texting the whole time. Not a giant deal, but really guy - you can't make your 11 year old put on a button down for an hour when you decide you want to eat at a nice place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 I won't eat in a place that tells me how to dress. Sometimes I'll dress up to go out to a nice restaurant, but I won't go to one that is going to look down its nose at me if I choose to come casual. As far as how they treated these veterans I guess a rule is a rule and it applies to everyone, but somehow I feel that these men deserved better than that. I would think there would be some kind of way to make an accommodation for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I'll play devils advocate here. You run one of the nicer restaurants in town, and your bread and butter is high end corporate lunches and dinners. Everything about your restaurant is to make those people feel comfortable and come back. And that girl has probably been yelled at once or twice for letting in someone looking a bit grubby. So 5 guys walk in wearing shorts and baseball hats and she says "sorry guys, can't do it". She's making $10 / hour plus tips and the real issue is that she wasn't quick enough to make an exception or say "if you don't mind taking off your hats we'll be all set". If it was anyone other than war vets, nobody would care and would probably agree with her. Personally it is a little annoying when I go to a nice place for a nice dinner and then watch people dressed like slobs come and sit down. Just as big of an issue here is the fact that in today's world an event like this makes the news.... I don't disagree this particular situation seems to be centered on the the specifics of the people being denied service. That is, they should have been given special dispensation due to their service. But even if that were not the case, I would expect the hostess or host to act as the liaison to management for any special circumstance or request. That way, someone with some authority and (hopefully) intelligence and experience can make the final call and deal appropriately with the customer. In some fine restaurants the maitre 'd really runs the front of the house, so he/she really has the final say. I'm not big into the fancy stuff - but if I do go to a nice place I want it to feel nice. Wife and I went to anniversary dinner in NYC a few months ago at a nice place that has a stated jacket policy. Great food, great atmosphere but I'd be lying if I said i wasn't slightly annoyed that a family came and sat down nearby with the kids in jeans and t-shirts texting the whole time. Not a giant deal, but really guy - you can't make your 11 year old put on a button down for an hour when you decide you want to eat at a nice place? What if the people sitting next to you were dressed in jeans but didn't have kids and weren't texting? What if it was a famous actor in jeans? Would that influence your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) A couple questions I'd be curious to gauge the reaction to... 1) what if they were Iraq war veterans? Mid 20s, shorts, tshirts hats etc... 2) what if it was just a group that happened to have a couple vets? Didn't serve together or anything but were in ww2 and there wives happened to be friends and it was 4-5 couples? Edited October 18, 2010 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 A couple questions I'd be curious to gauge the reaction to... 1) what if they were Iraq war veterans? Mid 20s, shorts, tshirts hats etc... 2) what if it was just a group that happened to have a couple vets? Didn't serve together or anything but were in ww2 and there wives happened to be friends and it was 4-5 couples? Based on the article and the restaurant's subsequent reaction, it seems as though they felt that for this particular group they might have been willing to make an exception to their rules. Who knows what they would have done for the people in your hypothetical situations? But all situations aren't the same and I have no problem with a business making exceptions based on the situation. I'm guessing that same restaurant would have made an exception had Tony Romo and Wade Phillips walked in without proper attire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 What if the people sitting next to you were dressed in jeans but didn't have kids and weren't texting? What if it was a famous actor in jeans? Would that influence your opinion? good questions. These days in NYC there are probably only about 10 (if that) restaurants that wouldn't let you in with jeans, otherwise it isn't a big deal. It's the sports t-shirts that made them look like crap. Adult or kids, looking like crap in a nice place is looking like crap in a nice place. If a famous actor was there wearing jeans and a nike t-shirt I would have said he looked like crap as well. I don't spend my days worrying about stuff like this (or going to nice restaurants), but was just making a point that I understand why places have a dress code, and that if they do I like to follow them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) Based on the article and the restaurant's subsequent reaction, it seems as though they felt that for this particular group they might have been willing to make an exception to their rules. Who knows what they would have done for the people in your hypothetical situations? But all situations aren't the same and I have no problem with a business making exceptions based on the situation. I'm guessing that same restaurant would have made an exception had Tony Romo and Wade Phillips walked in without proper attire. Clearly all situations are not created equal. The common argument I read when on the papers website was that as defenders of our freedom they earned the right. I was curious for the people that feel that way, if it extends to our younger vets, or in setting that aren't military based (ie not a reunion). I'm sure we could list all kinds of celebrity exceptions but I am hoping to pick the brains of some people about this specific dynamic. I don't think that this article would show up for someone who went to the gulf even if they had served admirably, risked their lives and walked into the restaurant in a professional (but casually dressed) manner. I dunno.... Not trying to make a political statement - just thinking out loud. Edited October 18, 2010 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The way the guys sounded... They are probably a little annoyed that this whole matter has seen the light of day. I mean come on... The came from an era where stuff like this (dress codes, dinner coats, etc... etc...) was a big deal and stuff what happened was more the norm. No skin off their back... We live in a lot different world now. Here was their reaction: "Dallas must be a classy town." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I probably wouldn't let a 93 year old guy wearing shorts and a t-shirt in my restaurant either. Exactly...I'm a vietnam combat veteran and I expect I would be turned away if I wore shorts and a t-shirt and baseball cap to a restaurant. Come on guys..thanks for your service, but you don't get a free pass from the rules of the road. Geez...the pendulum has swung widely. I came back from Nam and vets were treated like shyt. Nowadays the presumption is that they are exempt from every rule on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Exactly...I'm a vietnam combat veteran and I expect I would be turned away if I wore shorts and a t-shirt and baseball cap to a restaurant. Come on guys..thanks for your service, but you don't get a free pass from the rules of the road. Geez...the pendulum has swung widely. I came back from Nam and vets were treated like shyt. Nowadays the presumption is that they are exempt from every rule on earth. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Exactly...I'm a vietnam combat veteran and I expect I would be turned away if I wore shorts and a t-shirt and baseball cap to a restaurant. Come on guys..thanks for your service, but you don't get a free pass from the rules of the road. Geez...the pendulum has swung widely. I came back from Nam and vets were treated like shyt. Nowadays the presumption is that they are exempt from every rule on earth. From what I understood, the vets weren't upset at being turned away, their WIVES were upset. And again, as far as I can tell the issue wasn't simply that they were vets. They had what some might consider a "special circumstance". Now you can either agree the circumstance was special enough or not. But I don't think this was to be a general referendum on vets obeying dress codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Exactly...I'm a vietnam combat veteran and I expect I would be turned away if I wore shorts and a t-shirt and baseball cap to a restaurant. Come on guys..thanks for your service, but you don't get a free pass from the rules of the road. Geez...the pendulum has swung widely. I came back from Nam and vets were treated like shyt. Nowadays the presumption is that they are exempt from every rule on earth. I don't reade the issue as broadly as you do. It's a simple judgment call that the hostess and maybe the manager need to make - do the circumstances provide some relief with regards to the dress code? I would have said "yes." I don't think the issue is nearly as broad as do all vets get relief? I suppose you also have to know the restaraunt. At the end of the day - in spite of its lofty dress code - it's a tourist trap. There are far better places to eat in Dallas (IMO). The vets and the restaraunt both could have gained from the situation - comp them a meal in exchange for a picture or two and the ability to announcew to all other patrons about the gig. If they do this everybody in the place feels good and they get some free positive word-of-mouth advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 good questions. These days in NYC there are probably only about 10 (if that) restaurants that wouldn't let you in with jeans, otherwise it isn't a big deal. It's the sports t-shirts that made them look like crap. Adult or kids, looking like crap in a nice place is looking like crap in a nice place. If a famous actor was there wearing jeans and a nike t-shirt I would have said he looked like crap as well. I don't spend my days worrying about stuff like this (or going to nice restaurants), but was just making a point that I understand why places have a dress code, and that if they do I like to follow them... Fortunately, restaurants with dress codes do still exist in NYC. They are much fewer than only a few years ago, but they do still exist. I agree, the hostess should have spoken with a manager, who could have made an exception. But I do applaud restaurants that have strict dress codes...in NYC I can think of La Grenouille, Le Cirque (dining room), Daniel, Jean Georges, or Per Se still require a person to dress well to eat there. Even restaurants without a "stated" dress code...if you show up in shorts or jeans, screaming "tourist," you will be seated in the back, near the kitchen and bathrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Fortunately, restaurants with dress codes do still exist in NYC. They are much fewer than only a few years ago, but they do still exist. I agree, the hostess should have spoken with a manager, who could have made an exception. But I do applaud restaurants that have strict dress codes...in NYC I can think of La Grenouille, Le Cirque (dining room), Daniel, Jean Georges, or Per Se still require a person to dress well to eat there. Even restaurants without a "stated" dress code...if you show up in shorts or jeans, screaming "tourist," you will be seated in the back, near the kitchen and bathrooms. Don't most restaurants with dress codes offer loaner jackets and ties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Don't most restaurants with dress codes offer loaner jackets and ties? Yes. I've even been offered loaner shoes before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) Don't most restaurants with dress codes offer loaner jackets and ties? Yes but not pants. Edited October 19, 2010 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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