Philly writer complaining about Eagles O-line

[BuffaloBill]

i just dont understand how anyone could blame the Bills for what happened.

 

it was THE BILLS that took a chance on JP after he went undrafted.

it was THE BILLS that found a spot for him on the roster before he was ever switched to Oline.

it was THE BILLS who taught him how to play line.

it was THE BILLS who renegotiated his contract, years before it was due.

 

it was JP and EP who decided that none of that meant anything to them, and held the team hostage until they got what they (unfairly and undeservedly) wante

it was JP who showed up out of shape and not ready to play (which im sure helped cause that injury that everyone uses as an excuse).

it was JP who ADMITTED his head wasnt in the game because of "money/contract issues" (even though he was making over a million dollars a year already, and was only 2-3 years into a contract he signed)

 

 

regardless of how JP has played in Philly, how was this ever on the Bills "for letting the Peters situation go bad and trading him away"?

 

 

Simple - the Bills tried to go cheap on him for too long - they moved him from RT to LT and expected that paying him RT money was ok. It would be like you or I being approached by the boss one day - handed a big promotion - with no money - responsibility goes up etc. This was maybe OK for part of a season but the Bills should have redone his deal sooner.

 

With that said it appears they lucked out by not doing so,

Edited August 31, 2010 by BuffaloBill

[Doc]

Simple - the Bills tried to go cheap on him for too long - they moved him from RT to LT and expected that paying him RT money was ok. It would be like you or I being approached by the boss one day - handed a big promotion - with no money - responsibility goes up etc. This was maybe OK for part of a season but the Bills should have redone his deal sooner.

 

With that said it appears they lucked out by not doing so,

Peters got a $1M pay raise for starting at LT. While not a huge increase, it was an increase over playing RT.

[Yard Monkey]

Simple - the Bills tried to go cheap on him for too long - they moved him from RT to LT and expected that paying him RT money was ok. It would be like you or I being approached by the boss one day - handed a big promotion - with no money - responsibility goes up etc. This was maybe OK for part of a season but the Bills should have redone his deal sooner.

 

With that said it appears they lucked out by not doing so,

Not true. That's not what happened at all. The Bills renegotiated multiple times and they did not have to based on the length of the contracts PETERS signed. The Bills showed more than enough good faith in rewarding the advancements Peters made in his game. The one thing they waited for was to give him the mega-deal until he proved himself at being consistently good over a multi-year period of time, which as we can see he has never done. Very well managed by the Bills....

Edited August 31, 2010 by Yard Monkey

[DrDawkinstein]

Simple - the Bills tried to go cheap on him for too long - they moved him from RT to LT and expected that paying him RT money was ok. It would be like you or I being approached by the boss one day - handed a big promotion - with no money - responsibility goes up etc. This was maybe OK for part of a season but the Bills should have redone his deal sooner.

 

With that said it appears they lucked out by not doing so,

 

sorry, thats BS.

 

the contract JP signed was to play football for the Bills. it never said it was valid only for certain positions.

 

let's run with that real world analogy you mentioned though...

 

let's say i just graduated from college and couldn't find a job. then as luck would have it, i got a paid internship for a large company making $9/hour. they don't really have a place for me, but they see i'm smart and find me a job answering the helpdesk phone in the IT department.

 

i do that really well for a while, and they offer me a contracted position working in their IT department! yay! the new contract comes with a pretty big pay increase, taking me up to $36,000/year. and the contract is for 2 years.

 

a year goes by and one day they tell me i'm being moved from desktop support to network administration. i tell them i appreciate the opportunity, but network admins make more money and we'll need to renegotiate my contract. otherwise i'm not showing up for work, and when i do, i'm not going to do anything. the company says replies that they just gave me a new contract at an increased pay, and they're willing to discuss a raise when there is less time left on my current contract.

 

i then stay home for 2 weeks without calling in, and then come in and crash the network...

 

 

what happens next?

Edited August 31, 2010 by DrDankenstein

[Big Turk]

What's his excuse in Philly?

 

Andy Reid yelled at him, so he is sulking at his locker and calling his mommy on the phone so he can cry to her about "that mean man"

[notwoz]

I think Peters can still be the Eagles' ticket to the Super Bowl. With all the money he makes, he can buy tickets for the whole team!

[BuffaloBill]

sorry, thats BS.

 

the contract JP signed was to play football for the Bills. it never said it was valid only for certain positions.

 

 

what happens next?

 

 

I really hate beating a dead horse ... and the Peters saga is exactly that.

 

To follow along with your hypothetical - Peters did play LT for about 1.5 seasons and was named to the probowl (I know there is a huge debate about this also). The difference for Peters and you becoming a network admin is that Peters is one play away from losing his career due to injury. His opportunities to "cash in" therefore are limited. Playing 1.5 seasons at a high level certainly entitled him to ask for pay that aligned with the role.

 

 

I still believe the Bills tried to keep him on the cheap. That does not mean that his antics in response were appropriate. I believe the Bills might have given him a new contract absent the holdout.

 

Again, this topic has been debated far too much. Peters is long gone and many of the people involved are gone with him.

[PromoTheRobot]

I really hate beating a dead horse ... and the Peters saga is exactly that.

 

To follow along with your hypothetical - Peters did play LT for about 1.5 seasons and was named to the probowl (I know there is a huge debate about this also). The difference for Peters and you becoming a network admin is that Peters is one play away from losing his career due to injury. His opportunities to "cash in" therefore are limited. Playing 1.5 seasons at a high level certainly entitled him to ask for pay that aligned with the role.

 

 

I still believe the Bills tried to keep him on the cheap. That does not mean that his antics in response were appropriate. I believe the Bills might have given him a new contract absent the holdout.

 

Again, this topic has been debated far too much. Peters is long gone and many of the people involved are gone with him.

The Bills didn't cheap out, they wisely waited to see if Peters would prove himself worthy of a huge raise by playing at a consistently high level. The Eagles are now finding out Peters was not a good investment.

 

PTR

[DrDawkinstein]

I really hate beating a dead horse ... and the Peters saga is exactly that.

 

To follow along with your hypothetical - Peters did play LT for about 1.5 seasons and was named to the probowl (I know there is a huge debate about this also). The difference for Peters and you becoming a network admin is that Peters is one play away from losing his career due to injury. His opportunities to "cash in" therefore are limited. Playing 1.5 seasons at a high level certainly entitled him to ask for pay that aligned with the role.

 

 

I still believe the Bills tried to keep him on the cheap. That does not mean that his antics in response were appropriate. I believe the Bills might have given him a new contract absent the holdout.

 

Again, this topic has been debated far too much. Peters is long gone and many of the people involved are gone with him.

 

agreed on beating the dead horse, but for me it's not so much about the specific player as much as the principles behind what went down since we are BOUND to see it again and again from players. and i think that had a very large part in how the Bills handled the situation.

 

my point that ive already shown, is that the Bills did everything they could to help Jason Peters get to an elite level. then JP turned around and sandbagged them for it. anything and everything that went down was Jason Peters' fault. not the Front Office's.

 

as it plays out, both sides "won". JP got his money. The Bills avoided overpaying a less-than-elite player who was hellbent on leaving the team anyways.

 

the only real losers here are the Eagles. and im ok with that.

[Gabe Northern]

For the thousandth time:

 

1.) Kudos to the Bills for realizing Peters was not worth the money and/or would not react well to getting $25 million guaranteed.

 

2.) Where was Plan B? For months, we were INSULTED by the organization, which insisted a lazy, 375 lb RT could move to the left side and block 3-4 LBs.

 

You cannot look at (1) in isolation. If you do, you just spin your wheels, fail to improve the roster and miss the playoffs for 10 straight years.

 

Making the "right decision" on Peters requires replacing him with an NFL caliber LT talent, which they obviously failed to do.

[SoggyHog]

Maybe.

 

But you'd think someone in the media would come out and say "Gee...maybe the Bills did the right thing?"

 

PTR

 

 

Dear Commissioner:

 

I recently heard the city of Buffalo has a NFL team. Do you confirm or deny this?

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

The entire sports media

[PromoTheRobot]

For the thousandth time:

 

1.) Kudos to the Bills for realizing Peters was not worth the money and/or would not react well to getting $25 million guaranteed.

 

2.) Where was Plan B? For months, we were INSULTED by the organization, which insisted a lazy, 375 lb RT could move to the left side and block 3-4 LBs.

 

You cannot look at (1) in isolation. If you do, you just spin your wheels, fail to improve the roster and miss the playoffs for 10 straight years.

 

Making the "right decision" on Peters requires replacing him with an NFL caliber LT talent, which they obviously failed to do.

Where do you get elite LTs? Wal-Mart or Target? I didn't know there was a place to find one off the shelf. I suppose getting a couple of soon-to-be pro Bowl guards counts in your book.

 

PTR

[Bill from NYC]

Where do you get elite LTs?

PTR

 

Why don't you tell us? The sportscasters and sportswriters won't know because they are all idiots, right? Why don't you look at the best all time LTs and let us know how teams got them.

[BuffaloBill]

Where do you get elite LTs? Wal-Mart or Target? I didn't know there was a place to find one off the shelf. I suppose getting a couple of soon-to-be pro Bowl guards counts in your book.

 

PTR

 

 

Gabe's point is very much valid. If you are going to let Peters go then you should have a real plan to back up the position. The Bills had nothing - and maybe still do not. We can all hope Bell comes around but his play last year did nothing to warm a fan's heart. If he flops the Bills will look like idiots again for not drafting true LT prospect in the early rounds. It is even all the more insulting to watch Maybin get b ch slapped around the field while trying to make 3rd string. If he had not been such a high pick tell me he would not be cut. The Bills would have been far better off reaching for a LT.

[DrDawkinstein]

Why don't you tell us? The sportscasters and sportswriters won't know because they are all idiots, right? Why don't you look at the best all time LTs and let us know how teams got them.

 

interesting idea for an exercise!

 

according to this guy, the top 5 all time tackles are:

 

Anthony Munoz

Art Shell

Jackie Slater

Dan Dierdorf

Ron Yary

 

Munoz was picked 3rd OVERALL, in the 1st round

Shell was picked 80th overall, in the 3rd round

Jackie Slater was picked 86th, in the 3rd round

Dan Dierdorf was picked 43rd, in the 3rd round

Ron Yary was picked #1 OVERALL, in the 1st round

 

looks like that shows that unless you have a top top pick, it might be a crap shoot. and even then you have your Tony Mandarich's and Mike Williams's

 

now, this guy ranked the current top 10 active LTs. let's look at the top 5 (cause im getting sick of researching this).

1. Joe Thomas, 3rd Overall, 1st round.

2. Ryan Clady, 12th overall, 1st round.

3. Jake Long, #1 Overall, 1st round.

4. Jared Gaither, Round 5 of the Supplemental draft

5. Michael Roos, 41 overall, 2nd round.

 

also, lol at this guys take on Jason Peters at the bottom of the article.

 

 

 

So, what does this show as far as how to draft the best possible LT?

 

 

 

 

 

Gabe's point is very much valid. If you are going to let Peters go then you should have a real plan to back up the position. The Bills had nothing - and maybe still do not. We can all hope Bell comes around but his play last year did nothing to warm a fan's heart. If he flops the Bills will look like idiots again for not drafting true LT prospect in the early rounds. It is even all the more insulting to watch Maybin get b ch slapped around the field while trying to make 3rd string. If he had not been such a high pick tell me he would not be cut. The Bills would have been far better off reaching for a LT.

 

 

id say the Bills thought they had plans B, C, D and E covered with the remaining years on Peters contract. they did their best to keep him around but he was serious about holding out and leaving.

 

your first bolded statement assumes that drafting an LT in the early rounds assures more success. not true. its all a crap shoot, unless you have the #1 pick. and even then...

 

i wont disagree that we would have been better off "reaching" for Oher over Maybin. but after we drafted Maybin, didnt we also spend a 1st and 2nd round pick on the line?

Edited August 31, 2010 by DrDankenstein

[milehiLou]

his cheekbones are all high and bulging from smiling so much

[BuffaloBill]

id say the Bills thought they had plans B, C, D and E covered with the remaining years on Peters contract. they did their best to keep him around but he was serious about holding out and leaving.

 

your first bolded statement assumes that drafting an LT in the early rounds assures more success. not true. its all a crap shoot, unless you have the #1 pick. and even then...

 

i wont disagree that we would have been better off "reaching" for Oher over Maybin. but after we drafted Maybin, didnt we also spend a 1st and 2nd round pick on the line?

 

I was speaking of the point starting with the decision to trade him - the Bills had no real plan at that point other than to take a slow RT and move him to LT backed up by a totally unproven 7th round pick.

 

True drafting a LT early is not a lock but waiting until the later rounds is only riskier.

 

I know crying over maybin may be a bit of spilled milk but how much better would the Bills be with both Oher and Wood on the o-line? They could have had both. If Bell does not pan out this year - short of an injury that is out of their control - the Bills only look more like idiots for how this mess was managed. I suspect Bell will be servicable though not an elite LT. Wang is an unproven project.

 

If Bell steps up then maybe they look really smart. Time will tell.

[colin]

you know, i always thought peters would have made a much better DT. he's simply awesome on like 30 or 40% of plays, good on 20-30%, not so good on 15-25, and just takes off 15-25%. on the d line you'd be happy forgiving the bad for the big turnover and drive stopping stuff he'd do, but on the Oline just getting the job done regularly is more important than destroying a guy most of the time and him getting by you and causing a fumble some of the rest of the time.

 

i rewatched every single sack in his last season here a few times, and i know that it has been debated how many were on him, but frankly he stunk up the joint on at least 10 of them. i think he's had (not as much but) similar issues in philly, he just isn't a natural LT from a work habit and discipline point of view -- he was a converted TE after all.

[Doc]

For the thousandth time:1.) Kudos to the Bills for realizing Peters was not worth the money and/or would not react well to getting $25 million guaranteed. 2.) Where was Plan B? For months, we were INSULTED by the organization, which insisted a lazy, 375 lb RT could move to the left side and block 3-4 LBs.You cannot look at (1) in isolation. If you do, you just spin your wheels, fail to improve the roster and miss the playoffs for 10 straight years.Making the "right decision" on Peters requires replacing him with an NFL caliber LT talent, which they obviously failed to do.

Gabe's point is very much valid. If you are going to let Peters go then you should have a real plan to back up the position. The Bills had nothing - and maybe still do not. We can all hope Bell comes around but his play last year did nothing to warm a fan's heart. If he flops the Bills will look like idiots again for not drafting true LT prospect in the early rounds. It is even all the more insulting to watch Maybin get b ch slapped around the field while trying to make 3rd string. If he had not been such a high pick tell me he would not be cut. The Bills would have been far better off reaching for a LT.

So because the Bills didn't have a plan B (actually, the fat, lazy 375# RT was plan B...until they cut him days before the season started) they should have given Peters a $10M/year deal with $25M in guaranteed money, without him coming-in t get checked-out beforehand (he tore his groin at the end of 2008)? Or made him honor his contract, only to watch him holdout until the day before the season started (again) and give a half-assed effort (again)? No way. The Bills probably suspected a) he was damaged goods and/or b) his play would decline after getting the big money deal, found a sucker to take him, and rid themselves of him. So far they are proving they made the correct decision.

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm shocked...shocked and stunned...very stunned.

 

 

 

Any player who quits on a team over money is not worth a nickel.

 

PTR

 

This debate reminds me of the people who were crowing about Mike Williams being a decisively better pick than Bryant McKinnie. It was two years after the draft and most Bills fans were still defending the pick. McKinnie gave up a lot of sacks and he had held out as a rookie. Williams was a seemingly adequate player, albeit at a much easier and less valuable position.

 

Williams has since kicked around, been out of the league and back, then injured..........McKinnie went to the Pro Bowl last year. Great player? No. A very good draft pick who is going to put in 10-12 years of good football for the Vikings at a critical position? Yeah.

 

Fact is, the Bills likely screwed an entire season away because they didn't want to pay Peters. The Bills LT play was epically bad, which made having two great downfield receivers on the roster an incredible waste.

 

In return they got an offensive guard with a titanium rod in his leg and a TE who has done nothing and has already been suspended. I don't think the haul has been all that impressive to date. Even if Wood does turn into a very good player, he is still just a guard and we will still have to wait for him to develop.

 

Folks, chances are that Jason Peters will be back in the Pro Bowl this year, and probably many times thereafter. He's talented and at times dominant and still very young. Probably the most talented OT in the NFL from a physical standpoint which is why he gets the players respect come Pro Bowl voting.

 

He's a failure in the same way that good players are failures in a lot of places when they get paid: relatively. You get $11M/yr you are expected to be Tony Boselli in his prime.

 

The Bills completely mishandled the situation to start with, then turned around and showed their brilliance by replacing him with Langston Walker. Then they cut him. Yup. Very smart, Promo. You are right. Why aren't the experts hailing the Bills?

 

If the Bills are ever going to get turned around and STAY turned around they need to get used to keeping their best players, not trading them or letting them walk. There are going to be times when you think you have overpaid. That's the nature of the game. If you want to win, you often have to pay the talent. The Bills have saved a lot of money in recent years. They also lose a lot more than they win.