Skoobydum Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Until we show that we can win, there seems to be no reason to spend the extra money. The Bills spent huge sums in the early 90's to field great teams but we were at or near the top of the league. No reason to do that now considering how many question marks we have and no idea of how good the guys in the system will be. Go Bills!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 misleading thread title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarkLessWagMore Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 At his age, I don't think any amount of money is going to get him "F"'d. Great thread though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 At his age, I don't think any amount of money is going to get him "F"'d. Great thread though. If he was a oil guy, then maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Until we show that we can win, there seems to be no reason to spend the extra money. The Bills spent huge sums in the early 90's to field great teams but we were at or near the top of the league. No reason to do that now considering how many question marks we have and no idea of how good the guys in the system will be. Go Bills!! Ralph Wilson doesn't need encouragement from anyone not to spend money. It comes natural to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 misleading thread title Yeah, was hoping for another "because we're building through the draft" thread. It's been too many days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Ralph Wilson doesn't need encouragement from anyone not to spend money. It comes natural to him. How far below the cap has the Bills' payroll been for the last few seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 what the hell is "F"? !@#$ed? As in laid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Until we show that we can win, there seems to be no reason to spend the extra money. The Bills spent huge sums in the early 90's to field great teams but we were at or near the top of the league. No reason to do that now considering how many question marks we have and no idea of how good the guys in the system will be. Go Bills!! So what you are saying is "Screw It" we aren't any good anyway so let's not try to get better? And no owner spends "all" the money either. No team can win without a good mix of good drafting, free agents, good coaching/gameplanning and at least a little bit of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 How far below the cap has the Bills' payroll been for the last few seasons? Ralph's problem has been that he's too cheap with the jobs that fall outside of the cap -- GM and HC -- and as a result it has cost him money because the incompetents he's hired on the cheap have blown huge sums of money on inferior players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Ralph's problem has been that he's too cheap with the jobs that fall outside of the cap -- GM and HC -- and as a result it has cost him money because the incompetents he's hired on the cheap have blown huge sums of money on inferior players. If reports are to be believed, RW wanted to pay someone to be GM/HC type in November/December. Then Shanahan and Cowher both declined the job, which says a lot about where the Bills are in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Ralph's problem has been that he's too cheap with the jobs that fall outside of the cap -- GM and HC -- and as a result it has cost him money because the incompetents he's hired on the cheap have blown huge sums of money on inferior players. bull **** I don't know how much Nix is making but Donahoe...our last actual GM...wasn't exactly cheap At head coach, it's true he doesn't spend a lot on guys who haven't proven themselves to be worth a lot...that's not a sign of being cheap, that's a sign of being smart with your money. After the strong start in 2008, he rewarded Jauron with a major raise. In 2008, under the terms of his old contract, he was about the 31st highest paid in the league. The raise he got made him the 10th-highest paid coach in the NFL with an average salary of $3.5M per year...and considering he's paying him over $8M for doing nothing after he fired him AND was willing to spend in the neighborhood of $10M per year for a coach like Shanahan, to say Ralph is cheap is ridiculously stupid and ignorant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 12, 2010 Author Share Posted July 12, 2010 bull ****I don't know how much Nix is making but Donahoe...our last actual GM...wasn't exactly cheap At head coach, it's true he doesn't spend a lot on guys who haven't proven themselves to be worth a lot...that's not a sign of being cheap, that's a sign of being smart with your money. After the strong start in 2008, he rewarded Jauron with a major raise. In 2008, under the terms of his old contract, he was about the 31st highest paid in the league. The raise he got made him the 10th-highest paid coach in the NFL with an average salary of $3.5M per year...and considering he's paying him over $8M for doing nothing after he fired him AND was willing to spend in the neighborhood of $10M per year for a coach like Shanahan, to say Ralph is cheap is ridiculously stupid and ignorant I was just trying to say that there is a time to spend and a time to save and even when we spend we have gotten nothing in return to really show for it but a ~.500 record. I wouldn't spend any extra until I see a direction that leads to a positive result versus more of the same, it's just my point. As per the F in the title, it was FA but it cut it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 Ralph's problem has been that he's too cheap with the jobs that fall outside of the cap -- GM and HC -- and as a result it has cost him money because the incompetents he's hired on the cheap have blown huge sums of money on inferior players. Top GM's, HC's, and many players don't want to be in a market/city like Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted July 12, 2010 Share Posted July 12, 2010 It's Hard to spend money in the NFL /ok maybe too much of that today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Top GM's, HC's, and many players don't want to be in a market/city like Buffalo. They would rather play in such big, sunny, booming, metropolitan cities like Green Bay, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Money isn't the problem with Buffalo. I have never though Ralph wilson is cheap. Greggo, Mike Mularky, etc... were all considered to be good head coach candidates. Getting a coordinator to become your head coach isn't exactly a new theory. The #1 problem with Buffalo is drafting and the people who make decisions for it. That's it problem solved. It's no secret that the bills have drafted poorly for the last decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 They would rather play in such big, sunny, booming, metropolitan cities like Green Bay, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh... Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas56 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Top GM's, HC's, and many players don't want to be in a market/city like Buffalo. James could not convince Bosh to play in Cleveland, so James, Bosh and Wade went to Miami. Think about this a minute: Young, rich ballers hanging in Cleveland - or in our case, Buffalo - or South Beach. Which would you choose? Is it any wonder we have a hard time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 It is what it is, but $$$ signs cure a lot. The Bills have spent a lot of those dollars in the wrong places though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Until we show that we can win, there seems to be no reason to spend the extra money. The Bills spent huge sums in the early 90's to field great teams but we were at or near the top of the league. No reason to do that now considering how many question marks we have and no idea of how good the guys in the system will be. Go Bills!! Really? Well it seems to me that Ralph Wilson, at what, 93 years old?....should be pulling out all the stops so to speak to win one SB before he dies. Just my humble opinion, but with all the money he has acculmulated in his lifetime, I'm just surprised he is still so hung up on Buffalo being the forever "small market" and his infamous "cash to the cap" philosophy. Here's an example of what I"m talking about here. Let's say Ralph decided to throw caution to the wind, and spend back up to the limit of the cap, and pay the big signing bonuses prorated over the life of the contract to fit into the cap every year. Beginning this season after bringing in Nix who brought in Gailey. How different would we be thinking about this coming season, if Nix/Brandon/Overdorff/Litman and anyone else involved in the "inner circle", would have gone out on March 1st and brought in these 4 players, using OUTSIDE Ralph Wilson money for the bonuses, but still prorating them out enought to squeeze into this years' salary cap? 1) Brandon Marshall (may have needed to trade for him like Miami did.) 2) Alan Faneca 3) Julius Peppers 4) Joey Porter I have no idea how the Bills would or even could have gotten them all under the cap, but look around the NFL and you see other teams with 4 players of equal stature all playing together and being paid at the same time. Imagine Peppers at DE with Porter lining up opposite of him at OLB. Faneca stabalizing the young kids on the OL, and Marshall lining up opposite Evans. All of a sudden with just 4 veteran free agents added into the mix, the Bills are relavant again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Really? Well it seems to me that Ralph Wilson, at what, 93 years old?....should be pulling out all the stops so to speak to win one SB before he dies. Just my humble opinion, but with all the money he has acculmulated in his lifetime, I'm just surprised he is still so hung up on Buffalo being the forever "small market" and his infamous "cash to the cap" philosophy. Here's an example of what I"m talking about here. Let's say Ralph decided to throw caution to the wind, and spend back up to the limit of the cap, and pay the big signing bonuses prorated over the life of the contract to fit into the cap every year. Beginning this season after bringing in Nix who brought in Gailey. How different would we be thinking about this coming season, if Nix/Brandon/Overdorff/Litman and anyone else involved in the "inner circle", would have gone out on March 1st and brought in these 4 players, using OUTSIDE Ralph Wilson money for the bonuses, but still prorating them out enought to squeeze into this years' salary cap? 1) Brandon Marshall (may have needed to trade for him like Miami did.) 2) Alan Faneca 3) Julius Peppers 4) Joey Porter I have no idea how the Bills would or even could have gotten them all under the cap, but look around the NFL and you see other teams with 4 players of equal stature all playing together and being paid at the same time. Imagine Peppers at DE with Porter lining up opposite of him at OLB. Faneca stabalizing the young kids on the OL, and Marshall lining up opposite Evans. All of a sudden with just 4 veteran free agents added into the mix, the Bills are relavant again. If "relevance" is what you want, just pluck TO out of the dumpster---he brought instant relevance to Buffalo last season and it only cost $6.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 If "relevance" is what you want, just pluck TO out of the dumpster---he brought instant relevance to Buffalo last season and it only cost $6.5 million. I think we made him The opposite of that last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 If "relevance" is what you want, just pluck TO out of the dumpster---he brought instant relevance to Buffalo last season and it only cost $6.5 million. No, I may have used the word relevant, but what I really meant was that those 4 veterans would have gone a long way towards helping the Bills win this season, instead of needing to wait 2 or even 3 years before they start winning, which is the obvious course Nix and the inner circle have settled on. And the process of winning as soon as this season, would have made the Bills relevant around the NFL again. Signing one diva WR last season adding nothing to the wins column like T.O's signing last year, is the type of relevance that does nothing for me. I didn't buy his Bills jersey, or buy tickets to a game just to see him play. I'm too old and have been a Bills fan for over 40 years to get caught up in that pathetic kind of hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 James could not convince Bosh to play in Cleveland, so James, Bosh and Wade went to Miami. Think about this a minute: Young, rich ballers hanging in Cleveland - or in our case, Buffalo - or South Beach. Which would you choose? Is it any wonder we have a hard time? Nope. Plus Florida, Texas, Washington, and Tennessee (except for dividend and interest income) have no state income tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Nope. Plus Florida, Texas, Washington, and Tennessee (except for dividend and interest income) have no state income tax. When you're getting huge salary / endorsement money and you don't owe 8-9% state tax, it's kinda a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Really? Well it seems to me that Ralph Wilson, at what, 93 years old?....should be pulling out all the stops so to speak to win one SB before he dies. Just my humble opinion, but with all the money he has acculmulated in his lifetime, I'm just surprised he is still so hung up on Buffalo being the forever "small market" and his infamous "cash to the cap" philosophy. Here's an example of what I"m talking about here. Let's say Ralph decided to throw caution to the wind, and spend back up to the limit of the cap, and pay the big signing bonuses prorated over the life of the contract to fit into the cap every year. Beginning this season after bringing in Nix who brought in Gailey. How different would we be thinking about this coming season, if Nix/Brandon/Overdorff/Litman and anyone else involved in the "inner circle", would have gone out on March 1st and brought in these 4 players, using OUTSIDE Ralph Wilson money for the bonuses, but still prorating them out enought to squeeze into this years' salary cap? 1) Brandon Marshall (may have needed to trade for him like Miami did.) 2) Alan Faneca 3) Julius Peppers 4) Joey Porter I have no idea how the Bills would or even could have gotten them all under the cap, but look around the NFL and you see other teams with 4 players of equal stature all playing together and being paid at the same time. Imagine Peppers at DE with Porter lining up opposite of him at OLB. Faneca stabalizing the young kids on the OL, and Marshall lining up opposite Evans. All of a sudden with just 4 veteran free agents added into the mix, the Bills are relavant again. Couple points to make here None of us know if they did or didn't pursue any of these players..they don't tell the media everything nor should they be expected to...though the Marshall idea is one I'm kinda glad we didn't get There is no salary cap in 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Is there a strong correlation between spending huge money on free agents and winning championships? Washington and Dallas come to mind. If you can put together a playoff team without blowing big money on free agents, why would you blow big money on free agents after you've established you could do the former? Seems, ah, just plain dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Is there a strong correlation between spending huge money on free agents and winning championships? Washington and Dallas come to mind. If you can put together a playoff team without blowing big money on free agents, why would you blow big money on free agents after you've established you could do the former? Seems, ah, just plain dumb. RW spent plenty retaining players when we actually won, which has been a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Is there a strong correlation between spending huge money on free agents and winning championships? Washington and Dallas come to mind. If you can put together a playoff team without blowing big money on free agents, why would you blow big money on free agents after you've established you could do the former? Seems, ah, just plain dumb. don't confuse people with facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 RW spent plenty retaining players when we actually won, which has been a long time. Ralph flushed big money down the toilet on contracts to guys like Derrick Dockery and Terrell Owens in very recent times. Neither of those guys made a substantial impact. As far as paying good players, the Bills problem is they can't identify good players, not paying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ralph flushed big money down the toilet on contracts to guys like Derrick Dockery and Terrell Owens in very recent times. Neither of those guys made a substantial impact. As far as paying good players, the Bills problem is they can't identify good players, not paying them. and that's on Donahoe early in the decade and Jauron since then...not Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Ralph flushed big money down the toilet on contracts to guys like Derrick Dockery and Terrell Owens in very recent times. Neither of those guys made a substantial impact. As far as paying good players, the Bills problem is they can't identify good players, not paying them. Well in all honesty, the whole payroll is a waste in a non-playoffs season so we have basically thrown away probably about a Billion dollars over the past decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 Couple points to make here None of us know if they did or didn't pursue any of these players..they don't tell the media everything nor should they be expected to...though the Marshall idea is one I'm kinda glad we didn't get There is no salary cap in 2010 Do you personally believe they made a move for any of those players? Come on! Look, if they did, there is no way they can keep it a secret. It would be in any player and agent's best interest to make such interest public knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 How much over the cap would the 90s team cost us? But Ralph is cheap and is jsut trying to fatten his pockets in economically rich Buffalo, NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobydum Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 How much over the cap would the 90s team cost us? But Ralph is cheap and is jsut trying to fatten his pockets in economically rich Buffalo, NY. $20 M over easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Do you personally believe they made a move for any of those players? Come on! Look, if they did, there is no way they can keep it a secret. It would be in any player and agent's best interest to make such interest public knowledge. Don't know if they did or not...I thought I recalled something on Porter...I doubt Marshall because of his problems and Faneca because we are set at G...Peppers is the questionable one In any event, it's laughable at best to think they have to tell us anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 don't confuse people with facts Here's a fact for you: The last time the Bills played in the post season was January of 2000. The Music City Miraculous Forward Lateral game, remember? Based on that very non-confusing fact, how can any suggestion of how to build the Bills, even if it reminds you of the Cowboys and Redskins, be worse then what they've done the past decade?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 ...because we are set at G... Excuse me? You say the Bills didn't need Faneca because they are set at guard? Well I sure hope you're right about that, because although I was impressed by the fact the two rookies played from the first snap last season, Wood is coming off an ugly broken leg injury and Levitre spent a lot of time getting knocked back on his butt and certainly did not do enough to convince me that he was irreplaceable coming into his sophomore year. Especially to make room for Alan Faneca for a couple of seasons. Plus, as a bonus, if the Bills did bring in Faneca, but still thought as highly of Levitre as you do, they could switch Wood to center this season where he belongs eventually anyway, and pit weak Hangartner on the bench as decent depth, where he belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 $20 M over easy. Yeah, and how did that work out for we Bills fans? Pretty damn good if you ask me, except for the results of the 4 consecutive SB's his Bills played in.....a feat that most likely will never be repeated again in the NFL. (If only Norwood had made that field goal, huh?) But then, after the fourth SB loss, John Butler struggled to re-stock the team while juggling with the new salary cap and age of free agency. Anybody think that Ralph made it easy for him? Anybody shocked that Butler quit or was fired almost identically the same way Polian quit or was fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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