DC Tom Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Well actually there is a difference between missing the call in the 3rd and missing it in the 9th with 2 outs. If it's in the 3rd, you have to use the fallacy of the predetermined outcome to assume that things would've happened exactly the same way if the call had been made correctly. In the scenario yesterday, it was very binary. Either perfect game or no perfect game. So really, he shouldn't be fired for the bad call. He should be fired for bad timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 So really, he shouldn't be fired for the bad call. He should be fired for bad timing. Like I said, I've reversed my position on Joyce being punished at all. But missing that call in the 3rd inning does not mean the same thing, even if it is the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_franchise Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 If they start to use replay to rule on whether a runner is safe or out I'll be pretty much done with sports. The ruling on the diamond, the runner was out at first, two outs remaining, play ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 So really, he shouldn't be fired for the bad call. He should be fired for bad timing. He definitely shouldn't be fired but he is getting roasted (though he did man up and it's hard to kill the guy even though it was a brutal call). My main question is if it was a close play, why not just give it to the pitcher in that case? Why was he truly so hard to prevent history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Like I said, I've reversed my position on Joyce being punished at all. But missing that call in the 3rd inning does not mean the same thing, even if it is the same thing. Like making a three foot putt at a miniature golf place, versus making it to win the US Open. It's called "part of the game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Like making a three foot putt at a miniature golf place, versus making it to win the US Open. It's called "part of the game". No, like missing a 3-foot putt on the 18th hole and losing by a stroke, versus missing a 3-foot putt on the 6th hole and losing by a stroke. In one case, you can correctly say you would have forced a playoff with a make. In the other case, that cannot be assumed. I'm not disagreeing that it's part of the game...but the situation just isn't the same, and I don't think that's debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 No, like missing a 3-foot putt on the 18th hole and losing by a stroke, versus missing a 3-foot putt on the 6th hole and losing by a stroke. In one case, you can correctly say you would have forced a playoff with a make. In the other case, that cannot be assumed. I'm not disagreeing that it's part of the game...but the situation just isn't the same, and I don't think that's debatable. I don't disagree...I'm just saying that the situation shouldn't be a consideration in any sort of hypothetical punishment, as the mistake is the same either way. Unless someone wants to argue malicious intent on the part of the umpire, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Fair enough but the NFL is more popular than ever. Time isn't stopping the majority of people from watching games (though they absolutely need to stop the timeouts after KRs). And you really won't invest 5 more minutes if you watch a 9 inning game anyway? I'm sorry but screw the human element. I'd rather have a game that gets all the calls right. Leave ball and strikes alone but why not get homeruns and bang bang plays right? It makes no sense not to. Because I'm amazed at how often the umps get those bang bang calls right. They've already put in some rules to speed the game up (no pine tar in the batters box [that's why the put it on their helmets] for instance) so you want them to put in rules or a process anyway that will slow it back down? No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Also I think the ump had a bad angle, he was straight on. First base umpires go more by sound than sight. The ball hitting the glove sounds different than the foot hitting the bag. Because the throw of Cabrerra was not a bullet and it was caught in the top of the webbing it probably didn't make a great sound. **** happens. and Instant Replay is the toliet paper! As of 10 minutes ago, NPR said MLB is still considering over-ruling the call, calling the runner out and awarding -rightfully- the 3rd Perfect Game in the last month! Since the League has this stipulating power, I'm backing off my call for I-R to be installed in Baseball. I'm all about I-R and serves most every sport well, including tennis, racing and major sports. But baseball would drag out 5-6 hours a game if every play at a base were challenged/reviewed. As a Yankee fan, I'm glad A-Rod's homer in the WS was allowed, but not sure about every call. Certainly not balls & strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 and Instant Replay is the toliet paper! As of 10 minutes ago, NPR said MLB is still considering over-ruling the call, calling the runner out and awarding -rightfully- the 3rd Perfect Game in the last month! Since the League has this stipulating power, I'm backing off my call for I-R to be installed in Baseball. I'm all about I-R and serves most every sport well, including tennis, racing and major sports. But baseball would drag out 5-6 hours a game if every play at a base were challenged/reviewed. As a Yankee fan, I'm glad A-Rod's homer in the WS was allowed, but not sure about every call. Certainly not balls & strikes. Oh I assure you they would never use it for balls and strikes and they would have to limit the number of challenges by each team. But it would still suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Oh I assure you they would never use it for balls and strikes and they would have to limit the number of challenges by each team. But it would still suck. The annoying part is that some guy in a tv studio knows what the call should have been right away, but for some reason the league will still have the ump himself watch it 5-10 times, wasting time, before the right call is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 The annoying part is that some guy in a tv studio knows what the call should have been right away, but for some reason the league will still have the ump himself watch it 5-10 times, wasting time, before the right call is made. And as it stands right now it's the crew chief who reviews the play and he could be the furthest from the dugout to review it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR4444 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 By BEN WALKER, AP Baseball Writer Ben Walker, Ap Baseball Writer – 51 mins ago "Umpire Jim Joyce wiped away tears as he took the field, a day after his blown call cost Detroit pitcher Armando Galarraga a perfect game. Major League Baseball is still deciding whether to review the call. Joyce and Galarraga met at home plate Thursday afternoon as the pitcher presented the umpire with the Tigers' lineup card. Joyce shook hands with Galarraga and patted him on the shoulder. There were some cheers when Joyce appeared at Comerica Park. There was a smattering of boos when he was introduced. Joyce has admitted missing a call at first base Wednesday night on what would've been the final out. The veteran ump personally apologized to Galarraga after the game and hugged him. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 @Adam_Schefter Baseball commissioner Bud Selig said he will not change the umpire's call, it will not a perfect game, live with it. Baseball. 12 minutes ago Not sure if this is true...........Yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Guess so. No, on the no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Good. Nice move by Chevy and the Tigers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 The annoying part is that some guy in a tv studio knows what the call should have been right away, but for some reason the league will still have the ump himself watch it 5-10 times, wasting time, before the right call is made. All they need to do is have one ump in the booth watching replays. If he sees something off, he buzzes down to the plate ump. Plate ump checks the last call, determines right or wrong, and we move on. Whole thing takes less than 2 minutes and the call is right. Not seeing the problem with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 All they need to do is have one ump in the booth watching replays. If he sees something off, he buzzes down to the plate ump. Plate ump checks the last call, determines right or wrong, and we move on. Whole thing takes less than 2 minutes and the call is right. Not seeing the problem with this... No. Stupid idea. The instant human judgement on the field is what makes the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 All they need to do is have one ump in the booth watching replays. If he sees something off, he buzzes down to the plate ump. Plate ump checks the last call, determines right or wrong, and we move on. Whole thing takes less than 2 minutes and the call is right. Not seeing the problem with this... That would be fine, but they'll never go for it. Just look at football. It has to be the refs on the field for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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