We are playing a 3-4 Defense

[nd03]

I'm pretty sure we are putting in the 3-4 defense. Would this move Maybin to LB?

[nostyle126]

I'm pretty sure we are putting in the 3-4 defense. Would this move Maybin to LB?

WAY too early for this conversation. It was casually mentioned in a press conference. We haven't even signed a DC yet.

[WVUFootball29]

While it is not for certain yet what type of defense the Bills will run, Maybin would indeed move to LBer in a 3-4 situation.

[Virgil]

From what i'm reading, CG isn't opposed to it and will wait to see what they bring in from the draft to make the decision

[Steely Dan]

I'm pretty sure we are putting in the 3-4 defense. Would this move Maybin to LB?

 

In the 3-4 what current Bills players would you plug in at DL and LB?

[Boatdrinks]

From what i'm reading, CG isn't opposed to it and will wait to see what they bring in from the draft to make the decision

 

 

Waiting for the draft would be too late. You have to plan for this switch headed into FA and then you will have your "grocery list" for the draft. Probably loading up on LB's and a true nose tackle.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I just see we are weak in moving this way. No NT, only one DT/DE, need 2 new ILB and Poz goes to outside not sure Mitchell can play middle in 3 -4

[evilbuffalobob]

Hopefully we'll play something that will be know as 3443 hybrid on a consistent basis.

[nucci]

I'm pretty sure we are putting in the 3-4 defense. Would this move Maybin to LB?

Why are you pretty sure? What have you heard?

[nostyle126]

The difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 isn't that dramatic IMO. There are some subtle differences that require different talents (for example, a dominant NT required for a 3-4) but the schemes are similar enough that IMO a great defense should be able to run both in a single game.

 

I remember back in the mid-90s we had a slew of LB injuries so Wade Phillips turned us from a 3-4 to a 4-3 in one week's time. We played Miami that week and Marino was LOST against a defense they hadn't prepared for.

 

Why can't this be the case every week? IMO it can and should be part of any good defensive system. Throw in some forty six for even more diversity and watch opposing offenses panic.

[Bills Fan in MD]

Doubt it's been decided yet. Unfortunately, this isn't like Shanahan going to the Redskins, where you can be pretty sure that he has been watching film on that team for months. Gailey really is just getting up to speed, and since all of the assistants are long gone, he's going to have to do it himself to start.

[thewildrabbit]

Total speculation here, it will depend on who Gailey hires as his DC. The personnel already on this team would favor a 4-3, just hopefully not the Tamap 2.

 

From a poster after he read this article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...ough-for-bills/

 

# Big Stretch says: January 20, 2010 10:55 AM

 

Already talking about changing the Defense in Buffalo. Gailey must be trying to alienate the last 50 people who think his hiring was a good idea.

 

 

Read it, doubt the Bills will use a 3-4. Nix just says he likes it

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

I just see we are weak in moving this way. No NT, only one DT/DE, need 2 new ILB and Poz goes to outside not sure Mitchell can play middle in 3 -4

 

I'd prefer them to stay at a 4-3. Poz is not a fit outside in a 3-4 at all and in my opinion he and Mitchell would have to be the inside backers. Maybin would be ideal at OLB and between Stroud, Johnson, Williams, and McCargo I would hope they could fill the two DE positions. Only spots that would need players not on the roster would be one of the OLB spots and the NT. I'm not sure if its worth creating more needs however on a team with so many holes already.

[Orton's Arm]

Why are you pretty sure? What have you heard?

I can't speak for the OP, but while listening to the radio yesterday I heard Vic Carucci say that the Bills were switching to a 3-4. He said there are those high up in the organization--either Nix or Wilson--who have decided a 3-4 is the way to go. Which goes a long way to explaining Gailey's "openness" to the idea.

[rocwocka]

While it is not for certain yet what type of defense the Bills will run, Maybin would indeed move to LBer in a 3-4 situation.

 

I would think that if we move to a 3-4 this would be the front 7 line up (until we get all the pieces)

RDE Stroud

NT (draft pick) Mt. Cody (alabama)

LDE S. Johnson/Williams

ROLB Schobel

ILB Poz

ILB Mitchell

LOLB Maybin

 

we def need an off LT w our first pick, but this is a good draft for NTs too. who knows, maybe we can land a Wolfork, Hampton or Franklin (49ers) in free agency. another player on the radar fo LDE has to be Johnny Jolly. wishful thinking, but also correct thinking...

[Fewell733]

in the Chris Brown interview he reiterated that he would like to go to a 3-4 or at least a hybrid type defense

[Chandler#81]

I want to know what happened to..

 

 

the CREEP!

[nucci]

I can't speak for the OP, but while listening to the radio yesterday I heard Vic Carucci say that the Bills were switching to a 3-4. He said there are those high up in the organization--either Nix or Wilson--who have decided a 3-4 is the way to go. Which goes a long way to explaining Gailey's "openness" to the idea.

Ok, thanks.

[dgrid]

I would think that if we move to a 3-4 this would be the front 7 line up (until we get all the pieces)

RDE Stroud

NT (draft pick) Mt. Cody (alabama)

LDE S. Johnson/Williams

ROLB Schobel

ILB Poz

ILB Mitchell

LOLB Maybin

 

we def need an off LT w our first pick, but this is a good draft for NTs too. who knows, maybe we can land a Wolfork, Hampton or Franklin (49ers) in free agency. another player on the radar fo LDE has to be Johnny Jolly. wishful thinking, but also correct thinking...

 

Cody isn't an every-down player. if we go to 3-4, get NT free agent, use your draft pick on McClain for ILB.

[Chandler#81]

Cody isn't an every-down player. if we go to 3-4, get NT free agent, use your draft pick on McClain for ILB.

 

Shanny probably won't like Haynesworth. He may be available for the balance of his contract..

[VADC Bills]

Our biggest issue is a lack of talent as opposed to the scheme we are running. Going to a 3-4 will just be moving the problem around. Will Stroud or Williams be able to provide the push in the middle in a 3-4. Why do people assume you can move any of these guys to DE will make them better.

Our LB's as a unit are one of the league worst. Will going to a 3-4 keep Poz from being run over by rb's or running himself out of the play? Will going to a 3-4 make our LB's hit harder and create more turn overs. Will the 3-4 make Ellison, Poz and Mitchell bigger, stronger, and meaner. We need a serious talent upgrade on our defensive front 7 or we are still going to suck.

I like our secondary, not saying they couldn't use improving but this is the best unit on our team.

If we don't upgrade our talent the scheme we run won't make a difference.

[Fewell733]

i think the main focus needs to be getting a monster DT in the mix and some better DE's than Kelsay and Denney

 

realistically I think a hybrid is what we'll see next year.

[Bills(70)]

Go to the 3-4 Immediately.

 

Put Maybin on weakside OLB, Poz on the middle left, draft McClain 9th overall and put him on middle right, move Mitchell to strong side outside.

Trade up in the draft through player only trades and grab a pick 20 to 24, draft Cody as NT.

 

Trade up again in the 2nd round with players only to the 34 to 36 spot and grab Campbell from Maryland (OT) then grab Levefour (QB) with the 41st pick.

[nostyle126]

I have to say (and this seems like an appropriate place to bring this up), I think Stroud is really starting to show his age. He is no longer a dominant force inside. He is now a serviceable veteran DT and nothing more. He still makes some plays but generally speaking he is not what he used to be by any means.

[playman]

imho, we should keep the 4-3, although play in a more agressive manner. every team in our division runs some kind of 3-4. so in keeping a 4-3 wed force them to prepare differently.

[tennesseeboy]

I just see we are weak in moving this way. No NT, only one DT/DE, need 2 new ILB and Poz goes to outside not sure Mitchell can play middle in 3 -4

Very good point...A 3-4 would require a major overhaul and probably drafting a nose tackle with our number 1 and probably concentrating the draft on getting to this defense. Right now we have a huge problem on the offensive line that has be addressed this draft. I'd recommend staying with the 4-3 for this year.

[jtl3302]

In the 3-4 what current Bills players would you plug in at DL and LB?

LDE-Stroud

NT-Williams(adds 10lbs) baltimore has Gregg(6' 315)

RDE- Johnson

 

not sure at lb; some combination of Poz,Mitchell,Maybin someone on roster( Ellison,Palmer,Harris),FA and Draft pick

Think Schobel retires

[Deadstroke]

I'd prefer them to stay at a 4-3. Poz is not a fit outside in a 3-4 at all and in my opinion he and Mitchell would have to be the inside backers. Maybin would be ideal at OLB and between Stroud, Johnson, Williams, and McCargo I would hope they could fill the two DE positions. Only spots that would need players not on the roster would be one of the OLB spots and the NT. I'm not sure if its worth creating more needs however on a team with so many holes already.

 

 

A little confusing, Mesi, but at the end you're saying that we'd only need one OLB and the NT. Hey!! That ain't that much!!

 

There are players, like Wilfork (sp?) available in FA and the draft, fill the 2 spots with one from each source and IMO we've got the making of a heck of a 3-4....especially with Maybin in his NATURAL OLB 3-4 position.

[stuckincincy]

Very good point...A 3-4 would require a major overhaul and probably drafting a nose tackle with our number 1 and probably concentrating the draft on getting to this defense. Right now we have a huge problem on the offensive line that has be addressed this draft. I'd recommend staying with the 4-3 for this year.

 

Those spiffy nose tackles are hard to find, draft or on current rosters.

[Ever Since '86]

I'd prefer them to stay at a 4-3. Poz is not a fit outside in a 3-4 at all and in my opinion he and Mitchell would have to be the inside backers. Maybin would be ideal at OLB and between Stroud, Johnson, Williams, and McCargo I would hope they could fill the two DE positions. Only spots that would need players not on the roster would be one of the OLB spots and the NT. I'm not sure if its worth creating more needs however on a team with so many holes already.

 

 

Please, Poz's natural position is the OLB, It would only make him that much better to move him out a bit farther then he is. Poz is NOT a true MLB. He's just smart enough to do it.

[Orton's Arm]

Very good point...A 3-4 would require a major overhaul and probably drafting a nose tackle with our number 1 and probably concentrating the draft on getting to this defense. Right now we have a huge problem on the offensive line that has be addressed this draft. I'd recommend staying with the 4-3 for this year.

I'm guessing that Clausen and Bradford will be off the board by the time the Bills' pick comes around at #9. If that's the case, picking a QB at #9 would be a mistake, because it's not obvious that any remaining QB at that point would be significantly more likely to succeed than Brohm. So the Bills could take a LT at #9.

 

Then they could trade their 2nd and 3rd round picks to get back into the lower first round. That pick could be used on Cody--the kind of NT we'd need for a 3-4. With their second day picks, the Bills could take an offensive lineman and defensive front seven players.

 

I admit that if the Bills ignored the defense on the first day of the draft, they could use their second round pick on a RT. That would allow Butler to be moved back to guard, Wood to center, and Hangartnar to the bench (where he belongs). But the defensive front seven is going to need an infusion of talent, regardless of whatever scheme we employ. Schobel is contemplating retirement, Stroud isn't the same player he used to be, Kelsay and Denney are getting on in years, and there are holes in the LB corps.

 

Besides that, the Bills could help their offensive line by signing/re-signing Incognito, making him the starting RG, and moving Wood to center. The Bills don't need to use a second round pick to put Hangartnar on the bench!

[Orton's Arm]

Our biggest issue is a lack of talent as opposed to the scheme we are running. Going to a 3-4 will just be moving the problem around. Will Stroud or Williams be able to provide the push in the middle in a 3-4. Why do people assume you can move any of these guys to DE will make them better.

Our LB's as a unit are one of the league worst. Will going to a 3-4 keep Poz from being run over by rb's or running himself out of the play? Will going to a 3-4 make our LB's hit harder and create more turn overs. Will the 3-4 make Ellison, Poz and Mitchell bigger, stronger, and meaner. We need a serious talent upgrade on our defensive front 7 or we are still going to suck.

I like our secondary, not saying they couldn't use improving but this is the best unit on our team.

If we don't upgrade our talent the scheme we run won't make a difference.

The thing I like about the 3-4 is that it's intrinsically more unpredictable than the 4-3. In the latter defense, the offense pretty much knows that the four down linemen are going to be rushing. So the straightest path to being unpredictable is to send a fifth guy--a blitzer.

 

With a 3-4, the offense also knows that your down linemen will be rushing. But the defense can send a fourth guy--usually a LB--to rush as well. Because the offense doesn't necessarily know which LB will be rushing on any one play, this defense can create unpredictability while only sending in four rushers. (And without having to send some defensive lineman back into pass coverage!)

 

If you want a good-to-very good 3-4, you need dominant players at four positions: NT, RDE, rushing OLB, and your #1 CB. Maybin might become the good rushing OLB we need. The Bills' secondary is the absolute last area this team should be worrying about right now. So that would leave NT and RDE as the main holes to be filled if we switched to the 3-4. The Bills could fill the NT void by taking Cody late in the first. That would leave RDE as the main hole/need for a dominant player. For the 2010 season, the Bills would probably put a stopgap player of some sort there. But sooner or later, they'd need to use a first round pick to fill that hole. But they'd have to do that anyway, because Schobel isn't getting any younger, and a good pass rush from your front four is key to making the Tampa 2 work.

[nucci]

LDE-Stroud

NT-Williams(adds 10lbs) baltimore has Gregg(6' 315)

RDE- Johnson

 

not sure at lb; some combination of Poz,Mitchell,Maybin someone on roster( Ellison,Palmer,Harris),FA and Draft pick

Think Schobel retires

Stroud and Johnson are not ends and you can't just move a tackle to end. The ends in a 3-4 better be able to rush the passer.

[eball]

Go to the 3-4 Immediately.

 

Put Maybin on weakside OLB, Poz on the middle left, draft McClain 9th overall and put him on middle right, move Mitchell to strong side outside.

Trade up in the draft through player only trades and grab a pick 20 to 24, draft Cody as NT.

 

Trade up again in the 2nd round with players only to the 34 to 36 spot and grab Campbell from Maryland (OT) then grab Levefour (QB) with the 41st pick.

Yeah, but aside from general principles are there any specifics you would recommend?

[BobChalmers]

This strikes me as the exact wrong time to switch to a 3-4.

 

The trick to NFL defenses is that they are cyclical, and there are only so many good players for the various roles you have to fill for a given defense.

 

The 3-4 has been the popular choice lately, which is making NT's and bigger DE's harder and harder to find.

 

The thing to do now is go to whatever the new 3-4 teams are switching from - because there will be more players to run those schemes avaiable.

 

It's a bit more complicated than that, just because you have to factor in what the colleges are doing (and therefore what players are available in what numbers from the draft), but the bottom line is, you never want to be one of the last to switch to the latest fad. Switch early to the NEXT fad. Kind of like buying a house at the height of the boom - bad move.

 

I also really wish people would stop confusing 4-3 with Tampa-2. Not all 4-3's are Tampa-2's. Gregg Wlliams runs a 4-3 in New Orleans now, Redskins before, always has, and the Titans still run essentially the same D. Does it look a thing like the Bills or Colts to you? That D is more like the old Bears 46 which was large and ferocius. Lots of attacking.

 

We're probably a lot closer in players to go to an old-school 4-3 than to try to find a NT and bigger ends for a 3-4.

 

If we did go 3-4, Schobel and Maybin would both need to play OLB. You'd have probably Kelsay, Stroud, Williams on the line, and Kelsay would need to bulk up. Bruce Smith could do it at 265 or so, but he was a superhuman athlete. Now if we draft that big fast 290lb DE in the first round - his name escapes me - I suppose we'd be off to a good start for DL.

[BobChalmers]

The ends in a 3-4 better be able to rush the passer.

 

Sorry - that's just not true at all. Very few 3-4 DE's are good pass rushers. Bruce was an incredible exception as has been highlighted in articles about him when he made the HoF. He is the only 3-4 DE to make the top 20 career sack leaders.

 

3-4 DE's are more important as run stuffers, and get a lot of help from LB's in pass rush. They have to be big rather than fast.

[dgrid]

everyone wanting Cody- he's not an every-down player. doesnt have the stamina.

So what do you do when he's out?

[/dev/null]

WAY too early for this conversation.

 

It's never too early for this conversation. The last couple of seasons it didn't even require a new HC for people to ask for a 3-4 defense.

 

I mean everybody else is doing it right? If we don't we won't be cool. But no, mean old Mr Wilson won't let us

[Bills(70)]

Stroud and Johnson are not ends and you can't just move a tackle to end. The ends in a 3-4 better be able to rush the passer.

This makes no sense what so ever. As a matter of "fact", any comments that attempt to put the Bills into some "offense" first tailspin come draft time is absolute nonsense. You have to look at this upcoming season as a "rebuilding" season, in doing so, you move components around (players) like they were pieces on a chess board.

 

The perfect example of this is the 90 to 94 Bills, it took the team 3 years to build to the 90 squad and the following seasons individual positional components were added.

The first thing on this team that should be addressed draft day should be the LB position with McClain, there is no strong top 10 pick franchise QB's. I would take Lefevour with the 41st pick (the up and coming Frank Reich for the Bills?) and wait to see whats available next draft class or FA period. I would not bring in McNabb or Vick, waste of money IMO.

 

As for the OT position, look to FA this off season or trade up and grab one in the draft (Campbell, Maryland?)

There is no reason why the Bills couldn't have a core of Veteran players with young talent by the end of FA in 2011.

[Thoner7]

100% of Nix's scouting experience is scouting for the 3-4, I started a thread like this one when he was hired.

 

Poz is a 3-4 ILB, he played there in College and can do it. Maybin is a toss up as he simply can not rush the passer at any level - so I dont see how he is supposed to magically be a great 3-4 OLB. IMO Mitchel and Poz inside, with Maybin on the left side (where he will be asked to rush less frequently).

 

It basically is a wash. 3-4 we need a NT and one LB, 4-3 we need a DE and one LB. The only difference is Schobel could become more expendable in the 3-4 which equals another draft pick.