folz

Thanks Ryan...great idea to lay it all out. So, by position, they have met with: 10 QBs 6 LBs 4 OTs 4 RBs 4 CBs 3 WRs 3 TEs 3 OGs 1 OC 1 DT 1 Safety 0 DEs I know visits don't necessarily mean anything, sometimes teams draft the only guy they didn't meet with, etc., and there are many more of the 30-pre draft visits to be announced, but I just thought I would speculate about what this list means for the Bills draft wants per position: Obviously, we all know they are looking at/need QB, LB, and WR...interesting, though, that they have met with 10 QBs but not Darnold...at least not yet. Do they not expect to have a chance at him? Are they not interested? Or are they trying to hide their interest? Good to see that they are looking at RT to replace Mills and Guards to replace Vlad and/or to groom behind Ritchie... Seems that they are interested in drafting a CB...maybe either to beat out or eventually take over for Vontaze, as he is probably only here for two years and health could be a question...maybe someone who could play slot in the meantime. And I'm a little surprised, but I guess they are also looking for a RB, maybe to eventually take over for Shady, and either a more dynamic TE than Clay, or someone that lets us move on from Clay next year. Options for dumping big salaries next year? They obviously feel comfortable now, with the recent signings, on the D-line and at Center and Safety.

Thinking a moment from the Giants perspective...the above trade would give them 7 picks in the top 69. 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and 3 thirds. For a team that needs to restock their roster (and with a new GM) that would seem hard to pass up. And if they are in love with someone at pick 2: Barkley, Chubb, QB; I wonder if their fans are asking the same thing we are about moving up for a QB (in reverse). Is say staying put and taking Barkley worth giving up an extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks---or more (which you could have in the trade with the Bills)?

For me it was almost a 4-way tie between Flutie, Fitz, Bledsoe, and Taylor when I first looked at the list. Then I thought Bledsoe really trailed off after the first year, maybe he was just on the downside of his career. And I love me some Fitz, but I thought of his late-game interceptions. And I have always liked and rooted for Tyrod, but the not taking any chances (ala Rob Johnson and Trent Edwards) made me leery to pick him too. So I voted for Flutie. And then I decided to look up a few stats, just out of curiosity. Now, of course, Flutie had the best team around him and the smallest sample size, but... Record Pass Yds/Gm Rush Yds/Gm *TD/Gm Int/Gm Flutie 21-9 253 29.5 1.66 1 Bledsoe 23-25 211 2.7 1.23 .90 Fitz 20-33 220 15.5 1.54 1.2 Taylor 22-20 211 35.8 1.54 .36 *Includes rushing TDs because I think you have to weigh rushing yards and TDs in with a QB like Tyrod in the mix After looking at that, I feel better about selecting Flutie. Going by stats alone I would say the rank would be Flutie, Taylor, Fitz, Bledsoe.

This thread made me think about something I have been wondering for a little while. Last year it seemed like everyone (not Bills fans, but media and fans in general) were saying it wasn't a good QB class, teams should wait until next year, which is going to be a great QB class. And then we get to this year and now I have often heard people saying how great Trubisky and Mahomes and Watson are going to be and I don't know if there is a guy in this year's class as good. What happened? Yes, Watson and Trubisky got to play a bit, so maybe people are higher on them now than when they were drafted, although Trubisky did go #2 overall...and I know a lot of people do like the QBs this year...but it was this overall narrative that last year's class wasn't going to be good and this one would be, but now that it's here it's not as good as last year's class. And then we're told next year's QB class is not going to be good, which only makes me think that by draft day next year it will be the second coming of the '83 class to some people. Just makes me think that no one has any idea when it comes to projecting college QBs into the Pros.

Of course, not everyone who practices hard becomes an All-Pro as there are so many other factors (raw talent, size, strength, coaching, franchise, family, injuries, mental makeup, etc.) that go into it. That was, obviously, not what I was saying. But everyone does get better with practice, so why not see where a kid's ceiling is before dumping him. Do you really think San Diego was Peterman's best and even if he stays in the league for 10 years he will always look that bad on the field? Cause, I am looking around the league and seeing guys like McCown, Keenum, and Foles...who are obviously better at this stage in their careers than they were earlier. Now I'm not saying you wait on a guy for 5-10 years to develop, but let's give these kids at least 2-3 years to acclimate, learn, mature, get some experience and some, of course not all, will surprise you. What Patriots fan in Brady's rookie year thought some 6th rounder should take over for Bledsoe? How many fans were ready to kick Eric Moulds to the curb after his first two seasons. There are just so many examples of players who just needed a little time or the right situation. But, no, since a kid isn't an obvious franchise QB the first time he hits the field, then he's just a bum with no value, let's get rid of him. How are you going to react if the Bills do draft one of the top 4 QBs and his first 8 games are atrocious. Do you dump him and try to draft another one next year? or do give him at least another season to show he can improve and get it?

I am just surprised by how short-sighted people have become these days. It's one thing to have an opinion on if you think someone will become a good player or not (that's fine), but to label players as busts, trash, etc. after one game or even one season is ridiculous. Why is there the old adage of not evaluating a draft until 3 years has passed, or the myth of the 3rd year WRs ready to bust out, etc. It is because 98% of the guys that come into this league need some development, need to get used to the speed of the game, etc. There are only a small group of guys that come into the league each year that ball out right away, and usually it is partly because they were drafted into a great situation. Every job in this world takes time to learn. I don't care if you are a doctor or flipping burgers at McDs, first day on the job you aren't doing everything right, someone needs to show you the ropes, you need to gain experience doing it. This notion that players should come in and not make mistakes and light it up right away or they are a bust is truly baffling to me. In the old days, most fans recognized that it would take some time for rookies to come along and they were patient with them. Some of you guys would have sent Bruce Smith packing after one overweight, mediocre first season. I don't know if Peterman will ever develop into a starting QB, probably not as the odds are against him, but none of us knows for sure. Why would you dump a 2nd year player on a rookie contract if just a few months ago (as a staff) you thought there was something there you could develop? Let's at least give these kids a chance to develop before calling for their heads. Because, ya know, It's a funny thing about humans...when they practice something they usually get better at it.

This brings up a good point. It's so easy for us (myself included) to sit back watching the games and be frustrated with a player for shying away from a hit, or being skiddish in the pocket, or whatever. But most of us couldn't take the punishment that these guys do. I'm sure there are a lot of guys on here that played football at some level, but the NFL is a whole different world. These guys really are putting their bodies and minds on the line. I'm sure there are a number of guys who don't make it in the league simply because humans don't like to get hit. It can't be easy to see a Ray Lewis-type dude running full speed at you, intent on inflicting pain, and just stand there and take it. I can completely understand a guy becoming gun shy to where he plays himself out of the league. It takes a rare breed to do what those guys do.

This could also be a "leak" by the Jets to dissuade the Bills from trying to get up to #2.

Hmmm...Rookie (Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield), McCarron (if we get him over Pats), and Peterman. And then let them battle it out. Seems like a boom or bust strategy. Either none of them prove to be the guy (ouch) or one, two, or all three develop and look good---then you have your franchise guy and possible trade bait. I'm not against it, especially if McBeane feels good about the rook and McCarron...but there is definitely an element of risk to it. Kind of seems like the "keep throwing darts" strategy that some have posted about here on TBD. And at this point I'd rather they go down swinging than settling for a "bridge" QB. At some point, one of those bridges has to lead somewhere, or he's just your average to bad QB.

Serious question here. Am I just not remembering how free agency works? Or does it seem like it is awfully late in the process (on the eve of the tampering period) to still have no news about any of our own free agents? Have they tendered the ERFAs (O'Leary, Thomas, Yarbrough)? What is happening with Kyle? Are they resigning anyone? Does assigning tenders and resigning players always happen this late and I am just forgetting? (Did the creation of the tampering period bring this on?) And we will see a ton of activity on Monday and Tuesday of teams locking up some of their own guys? Or is this just the style of the new regime (to wait to gather as much intel as possible first)? Or are they really letting everyone go? None of the guys seem irreplaceable (except Kyle), but it is a lot of guys to replace. The team would then have to be very active in the 2nd and 3rd tier of FA and/or snag a lot of Undrafted Rookie FAs after the draft, just to fill out the roster.

Yes, lots of rookies come in and run well. But conversely, most rookies are terrible at pass protection.

Not to go off on a tangent, but I think 1983 was still a better QB draft class than 2004. imo Elway, Kelly, Marino > Eli, Rivers, Ben O'Brien, Eason > Schaub, JP Losman after that it drops off for both drafts, but there are still more recognizable names in '83 than '04: '83: Todd Blackledge, Jeff Christensen, Gary Kubiak, Tom Ramsey, Bruce Mathison '04: Luke McCown, Andy Hall, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, John Navarre But, it is an interesting comparison: 16 QBs were drafted in each of those drafts, 3 franchise QBs in each draft, 1 or 2 starting caliber QBs after that... 2004 has 4 Super Bowl wins to 1983's 2 Super Bowl wins. But 1983 has 11 Super Bowl appearances to 2004's 5 appearances.

Some of you just need to get over the whole Sammy thing. How does a thread about Vontae Davis become a Sammy thread? (I know, and now I'm going to add to the problem.) Is Sammy talented? Yes. But, is he a bust to this point in his career? Yes. He was a #4 overall pick that has produced 47 yards/game and 0.38 TDs/game thus far in his 4-year career (I didn't subtract games he was injured because a team drafting a guy that high expects him to be available). And yet he expects to be paid like a top flight WR? The Bills were smart to walk away with a year's service out of Gaines and a 2nd round pick. And now he's getting the Lee Evans decoy theory treatment too? Sheesh. The most important question though is...is he a member of the Bills currently? No. So time to move on and stop talking about him. He may eventually bust out, but how much did you want this team to pay to wait and see? Not to mention his self-professed attitude problems. At this point, I don't care how many draft picks he cost us or what the final balance sheet is. He's gone and that is all in the past now. Get over it and let's move on. Now back to our regularly scheduled program... Great pickup! Welcome to the Bills Vontae!

Yeah, this is not surprising considering we are on our 3rd head coach in just 4 seasons (each guy wanting his own players/changing schemes, etc.). It is pretty sad actually, that (not including interim HCs Fewell and Lynn), since 2000, we are on our 8th head coach in 18 seasons. That averages to 2.25 years per coach. And in that same time (since John Butler moved on in 2000), we have had 6 GMs (2 at least that weren't even qualified for the job). That's 3 years per GM on average. When you are changing your coach every two years and your GM every 3 years, on average, you can't hope to ever build anything. Let's hope McDermott/Beane stick around for a while!

I agree with the OP. The day after the Super Bowl, everyone was saying what a great, exciting game it was...except for me. I actually thought it was a boring game. Each team just marched up and down the field, scoring on nearly every possession. There was no defense until the sack/strip of Brady, which was probably one of the two most exciting plays of the game (along with the Foles receiving TD---the Philly special). I joked with a lot of people that the Bills/Jags playoff game was actually a more entertaining game for my taste. The running game battle, the strategy, playing field position, the battles on the lines, three yards and a cloud of dust and all of that. (despite the bad QB play on both sides). I actually stopped watching the NBA years ago because no one played defense anymore and because of the star treatment by the refs. Football seems to been heading down that same road. Yes, you can have a low scoring game that is boring because neither team is very good (like the 6-3 Bills/Browns game someone alluded to). But when you have two good defenses going at it, a low scoring game can be way more entertaining than a 41-33 point game. But, I believe this may be a generational thing. I think younger fans are just used to seeing more scoring in sports and partly because the leagues caters to the casual fans, trying to lure them in with more scoring.

Just playing along here ... What does matter for Ballard "the rivalry is on" and Irsay is getting back at the Pats. If Luck is ok, they don't need a QB. And since they have so many holes a trade back for extra picks seems just as wise as taking a stud at 3. So, why not let Buffalo get their QB, who can hopefully become a thorn in the Patriots side for years to come, while you restock your own team.

Mama Jones is no joke! And when will some people remember that the transition from college to the pros is very difficult. Only a small group of guys each year,who usually got drafted into advantageous situations, light it up in their first year. The league is full of 10-year vets and All Pros who had bad rookie seasons or took a couple of years to come on. Calling a player a bust after one season is very short-sighted. That type of thinking would actually destroy an organization. Have some patience with the kid. And Peterman too. And all the guys who will get drafted this year. And while I'm on my rant...people need to stop dogging Tyrod too. I have no problem with people pointing out his stats, shortcomings as a player, value to the team, etc. But, he has done nothing but work his butt off for this team since he got here and he's a good person, good leader, etc. You may think the team needs to move on, and that's fine, let's discuss it, but there's no reason to be nasty/mean to a guy who has been nothing but a class act, puts in the work, and tries to do his best. I don't know, maybe I'm just too old school, where I think being a fan means rooting for all of the guys on my team, both on the field and off.

We all know that in Shady's first year, he wasn't thrilled to be here...but it's hard to blame the guy for that. First, the guy is probably going to be a Hall-of-Famer and yet, basically his hometown team that he played his heart out for said we don't want you anymore and traded him to a team he knew nothing about who was in a small market and in the midst of a 17-year playoff drought. Tough not to be upset about that. Year two, he came in with a whole new attitude, well-prepared and embracing the team and the City. That was great to see. But the moment I keep going back to is his OT walk-off touchdown in the snow game against the Colts. We've all seen tons of guys do the Lambeau leap and/or interact with fans when they score a TD. But, right after Shady scored that TD, he was all alone and he kind of just stopped and waved to the fans with a big smile on his face. Almost like he wanted to go over and celebrate with them, but something was still holding him back. Then a few moments later, his teammates mauled him, pushing him to the wall and the fans, where everyone as a whole, players and fans, had that amazing celebration with snow flying like confetti. It always felt like Shady kept a little bit of distance between himself and the fans, maybe that's just his personality, maybe because its just tough to be that famous...but in that moment I felt like he was finally able to let his guard down and just be one with Buffalo. And truly embrace this fanbase. He will always love Philly I'm sure, but he is now 100% a Buffalo Bill! And we are lucky to get to watch another HOF RB play for our team. Love me some LeSean McCoy! Keep it crankin' Shady and we'll all get a playoff win next year!

Loved watching Aaron play...tons of passion and intensity. If not for the injuries, he would have been that Fred Jackson, Kyle Williams type of leader for this team for many years. As McDermott says, he had the right DNA. And what an amazing article...self-reflective, mature, and appreciative. No question a role model you would want to hold up for your kids and not because he played football, but because of the man he is. Thanks Aaron...you'll forever be a Bill #23.

Here's an article from BuffaloRumblings from a year ago speculating that McD might hire him as defensive coordinator. Apparently, McD and Butler were high school teammates. Butler was recently fired by the Texans. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/1/11/14236628/john-butler-sean-mcdermott-bills-texans-assistant-ties-to-mcdermott-could-be-defensive-coordinator

As an out-of-towner, I like the show...makes me feel more connected to what is going on in Buffalo. And I like hearing some of the national guys, who were weekly guests this year, talk about the Bills (Greg Cosell, Trey Wingo, etc.). I do like both Murph and Donald. When they were first going to bring in a co-host, I was rooting for Reuben Brown because I think he is really knowledgeable about the game, but Donald has been ok. I don't mind so much that the show is a homer show. Instead, my top two negatives would be that Donald almost always repeated what the last person said before he said what he was thinking. That was a bit irritating sometimes, but he got better at not doing that as time went on. And with Murph, to me its less about him being sensitive to some of the callers than it is him not really understanding what they are saying. Sometimes he starts responding a little tough on a caller and I'm thinking, that's not what he was saying. Or he goes off in a different direction from what the caller was talking about. But, I do like that Murph is from the area, has been around the team so long, and feels the way us fans do. He's lived through it too. Donald didn't really seem to know too much about Bills history, which is ok...but it might be good to get someone who feels more connected to the team in there.

I don't know much about the kid to have an opinion on the player, but... If the Bills truly felt he was a generational type player and with that possibly being the most important spot/role in McDermott's defense, then I would be ok with it. However, if they don't feel the drop off from him to the next LBs is that large (ala Lattimore to Tredavius), then no way would they do it. Lattimore may still turn out to be the superior player, but I'd rather have Tre and another 1st rounder instead. Same for this year.

Best case scenario, as a Bills fan, seems to be: Jax beats NE [Don't want NE even sniffing the Super Bowl because if they get in they'll win, one way or another: lights going out (yes, I know that was the Ravens/SF SB---but very Pats like), comeback, horrible calls by opposing team in crunch time, horrible calls by refs during crunch time, etc.---especially since the Giants won't be playing] Minn defeats Philly [Giving it up for our Midwestern brethren of the church of 0-4 (Superbowls that is)...and they've been waiting longer than us to get back.] Minn humiliates Jax in the Super Bowl (Minn ends their Superbowl drought giving Buffalo hope and Marrone looks like the mope that he is)

"I'm a (bleeping) All-Pro," Dareus said. "And y'all aren’t even going to let me play? You aren't even going to give me snaps?" Marcel still doesn't get it, which is why he isn't here. He was the #2 culprit of not buying in when Rex was here (behind Mario). And it sounds like he still wasn't buying in for McDermott. A lot of talented guys don't do well in the NFL because you can't rest on your talent, you have to earn everything. Which means work hard, be team oriented, don't hurt the team with your actions, and especially if you are the highest paid player/one of the most talented guys/vet, be a good example for the younger guys. If Marcel had the heart and work ethic of Kyle, the guy could have been a perennial All Pro. I like Marcel and indeed our run defense dropped a bit when he left and Jax run defense improved a bit, which shows that he is still a good player, and if he put the time in could be a great player, but the fact that he still doesn't understand why he was traded is exactly why he was traded.

Which is why I am happy that I'm not a Pats fan. I do actually want to like the team I root for...and call me crazy, but for all of their winning and Super Bowls, I can't see the Patriots and their fans having moments like we did during the snow game or on New Year's Eve. That's all about family and heart and sticking together through the tough times with integrity and honorability. That's the Bills, that's McDermott. I'm happy with the direction and leadership of this team right now and we wouldn't be here if Marrone and his unlikeable, egotistic ways stuck around. He's obviously a decent coach, but not someone I want to root for or represent the Bills.