Brand J

Let’s make one thing clear: I don’t dislike Edmunds. I’ve never called him trash or terrible and would invite you to prove me a liar. He does some good things on the field, of course, but also leaves a lot to be desired. It’s evident both of us have biases when assessing his play, though yours are farther from reality. Are you seriously comparing our MLB and what he brings to the field to Hall of Fame CB Deion Sanders? Have you gone so far to convince yourself his impact is comparable? Your previous post was filled with excuses for why Edmunds registered 0 sacks, 0 FFs, 0 FRs, and 1 INT, despite being largely healthy and playing 100% of the snaps, but now you’ve outdone yourself. Quick, what’s Edmunds most notable play in his 4 year career? What stands out to you more than any other, the play that has so far defined his career? Does he have ONE? In what big game did he make his presence felt? Someone like you and your bias might tell me the Chiefs because he took away Mahomes first read forcing him to pick on the other defenders. What do you say to PFF’s poor coverage ratings? Are they biased as well and doing a poor job assessing his responsibilities? To illustrate just how much you grab at straws, you even argued that I said Edmunds rushes the passer a lot. Go back and re-read. I said he does rush the passer, but sucks at it. He gets stood up by RBs. But someone like you would tell me he’s doing his 1/11, opening the play so others could do their job. I said my biggest takeaway from Beane’s season ending presser was that he praised Edmunds for his role in the defense, as far as getting players lined up and shouldering that responsibility. That was what I felt was his most glowing remarks. I didn’t comment on all his other snippets that included “would we like to see him get better at…” because he didn’t say anything I found revealing. Call it confirmation bias. I’m willing to own up to mine, I live in a space closer to reality, but wouldn’t expect someone who compares Edmunds to Deion freaking Sanders to realize the extent of his biases. Good lord is right.

I don’t know if that second half was more about the Bengal defense, or Mahomes losing whatever magic he had for the 9 quarters prior. He looked like a completely different player and wasn’t throwing to receivers that were actually open. It’s like he was afraid and gun-shy all of a sudden. Go back and look at the play towards the end of the game where he was running around like a blindfolded squirrel. There were receivers open in the endzone, small window, but nothing he hasn’t attempted before. I do think their failure to score before halftime was some sort of psychological turning point. And then that first INT to the big lineman cemented his downfall.

Wisest decision I’ve made 😂 No use in conversing with someone who doesn’t understand basic statistics and insists in using 2024 in his “argument” as though all contracts have already been set for that period. Yeesh. At least you finally admitted to what I’ve been saying all along: the deals are larger. Thank you for playing and good day, sir.

To that point, when facing top offenses I’d rather the defense get beat taking more chances with calculated blitzes, than sitting back rushing four down after down. Players like Hill are going to get theirs anyway even when playing conservative. We’ve seen time after time that a good QB can work through a disguised secondary before the 4 man rush gets home. Frazier’s defense only works against a top offense if we’ve got a monster DL - quick, fast, and strong - unfortunately we don’t have that.

Sigh. The measurement to which I got the numbers is consistent in both cases - it doesn’t discriminate to where the QB is in that contract and points to the fact their deals are larger now than they were then, comparatively. You can ignore the data all you want, but it doesn’t change the fact. You can also assume contracts will be the same 3 years from now, but that’s an argument based on assumption, that’s all it is. And that’s all you’ve been doing. I gave you concrete numbers to show the increase, you’ve given nothing, no stats or otherwise that speaks to the contrary. As My Cousin Vinny so eloquently put it, “I’m done with this guy.”

Yeah, I’m just looking for a fix for what I perceive as a growing issue. Literally. But as I said in my earlier posts, it’s not a problem until it becomes one. If owners are content to hand out bloated contracts to that position specifically, that’s their prerogative, it’s their money. Naturally as QBs make more, other positions receive less. I don’t know the RB numbers versus now and the past, but I can bet they’re not making nearly what they used to, relative to the cap. But again, if everyone’s cool with it, players included, then it’s not a problem.

Again, my argument is based on the PAST and the trajectory of QB salaries, whereas yours is projective. I’m going to make it plain as day seeing as how you’re still struggling. I’ll compare 2022 to 2015 using the same criteria. The average cap hits of the top 5 QBs in 2022 are $43,865,331 with a salary cap of $208,200,000. This represents 21% of the cap. The average cap hits of the top 5 QBs in 2015 were $20,087,583 with a salary cap of $143,280,00. This represented 14% of the cap. Sure, this data could be an anomaly, maybe I just lucked into picking the year with the highest variance, but I’m pretty sure if I were to go year by year my argument would still hold weight - QB salaries are climbing and consuming more and more of the salary cap. Those are the hard numbers for you from then and now.

The inefficiency in recognizing tiers is part of the problem, yes. The other is that a higher salary cap means players are naturally going to get paid more. We already have a league that utilizes max player contracts, so it’d be easy to look over there and see if the fears are justified. Is it working? Are there players lesser than Lebron making just as much as him on max value deals? I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but would be shocked to learn that’s the case.

I’m going to have to dismiss your argument if you insist on referring to future years where salaries and the cap aren’t in existence. You couldn’t tell me in 2018 what it would look like, definitively, in 2022, so it’s not a fair argument. Also, apologies in assuming you had access to the earlier Spotrac content. I thought you were purposely being cagey so as to not support my argument 😂

Yes, I’m not arguing future numbers, because we don’t have those. All we can objectively evaluate is the trajectory of contracts from then to now. It’s a simple question to an issue you said doesn’t exist - are QB contracts consuming a much greater percentage of the salary cap year to year?

We’ll have to agree to disagree here, Gunner, because lesser players arguing for max contracts is no different than Carr arguing in the present to be paid like Mahomes. A ceiling on player positions doesn’t mean a lesser player’s value or worth would then be equal to their superstar peers across the board.

I said they’d argue for more than what Mahomes got, partly because the cap is higher. You said there were QB contracts right now at 24% of the cap. There weren’t many, of course, but it exists. If what I fear is not happening, are you suggesting QB contracts have not risen percentage wise - relative to the cap - since 2013, the earliest year on that Spotrac sample you sent?

Those players could argue for max value contracts, but do you believe those teams would pay it? You guys are looking at it from - max value means negotiations would cease to exist and they’ll all just push for that number. I don’t agree. I do agree the market does not adequately recognize QB tiers, but at the end of the day, an agent has to negotiate the best value for his client. Setting limits on how much a position can occupy the cap won’t stop those negotiations.

As to the first in bold, how do you figure when there are contracts right now that exceed 20%?! QB contracts are getting richer, when Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert’s time comes, they’re going to argue for more than what Mahomes got. Why? Part of the reason will be because the cap is higher. Putting the arbitrary 20% number once again at the forefront, their contracts could surpass the percentage. If QBs are worthy of being paid the max percentage, then pay them, there’s only a handful of those guys in the league anyway. “Every” contract wont be pushed to the max, that’s just silly. For those that are, teams can be assured the bloating contracts can never occupy more than “20%” of the cap. Since you’re struggling to understand the concept, I’ll compare it this way… the NBA has a salary cap along with max value contracts and rules within those contracts. See here. MLB has no salary caps and player contracts in that league continue to balloon. Like the NBA, the NFL has a salary cap. You seem reluctant to compare the trajectory of contracts to earlier times, but the argument I was making is that QB contracts are consuming more of the salary cap year by year, percentage wise. That’s fact. Setting percentage limits would not only help ensure the contracts remain reasonable, but would also assuage current renegotiating arguments when players see there are others making more than them.

You seem hyper focused on this 20% number. I told you, it’s just something I threw out, that’s not where the importance lies - it lies in making sure the contracts of one position don’t continue to balloon to the detriment of the league and it’s other players. Every QB’s agent will want more than what the previous one signed for and will argue for it. That’s how things get out of hand because the team has no choice but to pay - if it doesn’t, another franchise will. Let max contracts come to the NFL in the coming years, I’ll be sure to tag you.

You probably would’ve said the same when the rookie contracts weren’t out of hand 😂 You don’t speak for the owners and again, I can’t access the content without paying for the premium. The fact you didn’t reference the earlier years tells me the percentage has in fact gone up. Percentage allocation gives players max value contracts, it does make sense and is used in other leagues.

I can’t access prior years, think I have to register. Pick 2013, 2014, and 2015, what percentage of the cap did the top QB salaries tie up? Now do the same for the last 3 years. Has that percentage increased as I suspect it has? Again, it’s not a problem until it becomes a problem and I equate it to the cap that had to be put on rookie contracts because they ballooned out of control. Once upon a time those contracts weren’t a problem either… As to the bold, league owners can and will step in to institute corrective measures as they see fit, if the situation dictates.

That’s the great thing about an ever increasing cap - it also increases the amount a max player can earn, even if there was a fixed percentage. It doesn’t have to be 20%, that was just me throwing out a number, but it’s true with everything - it’s not a problem until it becomes a problem. If I had the time, I’d go back and dig into what QBs used to make in relation to the salary cap and I can bet you the percentage to which their contracts have occupied the cap has grown significantly in the last few years and there’s nothing in place to limit what that number can reach. Again, there’s no harm in setting proportional limits. If you think there is, or that QB salaries won’t continue to climb - percentage wise - in relation to the salary cap, then we can agree to disagree. The evidence is already there.

I’d say Trey Smith was the steal of the draft. A late 1st, early 2nd round talent that dropped to the 6th because of health concerns. Knowing we needed interior help, I’m still kinda upset Beane didn’t gamble on him in the 5th or 6th round, instead we picked players who are no longer with the team.

But at least it’d put a ceiling on it and teams wouldn’t have to worry about that 24% of the cap ballooning to 30% because an agent did his job well. It’s reminds me of the cap they had to put on rookie salaries because those were getting outrageous. There’s no harm in a max deal per position that represents a percentage of the cap. If anything it benefits the other players/positions who might have made less money otherwise. That would be Keyshawn Johnson and he said it as recently as The Perfect Game.

Impact plays/splash plays, call it what you want, it’s semantics and points to the same issue - Tremaine doesn’t make many of them. “Ignoring all the impact plays that don’t happen” is quite possibly the most baseless argument I’ve ever heard one use to defend a player. It’s an argument built on supposition and assumption. We might as well say, “Mario Addison makes impact plays when he rushes and forces the QB off his spot - even if he misses the sack - because it prevented the QB from seeing a player running free in the secondary.” That’s your argument. I don’t judge Tremaine or the rest of the defense by what they do against teams like the Jets, Texans, and Panthers. How does he and everyone else fare when they face a competent offense? “Tremaine doesn’t get sacks because he’s not asked to rush the passer” (actually he does rush the passer, but sucks at it), “Tremaine doesn’t get interceptions because QBs don’t like throwing at him” (truth is he lacks ball skills, awareness, and has suspect hands). What else? Oh, “Tremaine doesn’t force fumbles because Bills defenders aren’t coached to go after the ball” (it’s preached ad nauseam to go after the football, I’ve heard defenders say this time and time again and even brought in Peanut Tillman to teach the technique). The sad thing is you can’t even recognize the amount of excuses you’re making for the player because you’re convinced he’s something more than he is. If you watch the Beane presser, you’ll also see he describes Tremaine as “getting better” playing with strength, getting off of blocks, and developing the alpha male mentality leaders need. You’ll also see it’s quite obvious from Beane’s body language and the way he speaks about Tremaine, he’s not completely sold on the player and like all of us, wants to see his game raise a level before talks of a contract extension. I half think you’re just trolling with your excuses. This was in an article before the Patriots matchup with the Bills on MNF: But didn’t you just say QBs are scared to throw in his direction?

That’s true… for now.

I still believe… convinced actually… that if the Bills were up by less than 3 points, they would’ve played those 13 seconds differently and with more urgency.

I was just thinking this same thing. It is inherently unfair for a QB to make so much money. Yes, it’s the most important position in sports, but they are still 1 of 53. I’d like to see percentages incorporated if there aren’t any - QB max percentage is 20% of the cap. DEs are 15%, CBs are 13%, etc. Spread the money a little further and more equitable.

Is Lamar’s agent still his mother? Or has he found a proper business partner?