CincyBillsFan

Next year, fireworks happens.

To give you an idea at how important play makers are the Watkins one handed grab likely prevented an INT.

Instead of worrying about why the Bills didn't draft Mahomes what about Kelsey? Did we have a shot at him? I remember him here in Cincinnati when he played for UC and he was a stud in college.

It's interesting to see that Mahomes can make bad throws like everybody else. Every time I watch KC play I come away thinking that Kelce is the NFL's best TE and Hill is the leagues best WR. Just amazing talent. I also appreciate the play calls and play design by Andy Reid. He does some cool stuff with misdirection.

KC's offensive line is outstanding.

Mahomes throws a nice ball and his skill guys create real separation.

If this actually happens it proves to me the NFL has gone officially bat feces crazy. I'm not a big Rosen fan and think the Bills got the right Josh but Arizona was a dumpster fire and to discard Rosen after this season seems insanely premature. To do it to draft either Haskins or Murray seems to me to be doubling down on crazy. Now if this were two years from now and the Clemson QB was coming out it might and I emphasize MIGHT be a smart move. Right now Arizona needs to trade away their #1 pick for as many draft picks as someone is willing to give them. Paraphrasing what was said in Animal House: "they need the dudes".

As an aside I hope the Bills hit the ground running in free agency so we have something real to talk about. I mean we haven't even got to the divisional playoff games yet and we're going stir crazy arguing about imaginary scenarios where KC trades Mahomes to us or what if we had drafted Mahomes in 2017! At this rate by February we'll be debating about what would have happened had the Bills taken Tom Brady in the 5th round and hired Belichick after he was fired by Cleveland!

I don't see folks claiming that if you switched Allen & Mahomes they would have the same production. The biggest problem with this line of thinking is that Mahomes is in his 2nd season and Allen is a rookie. Since Mahomes only started 1 game last season we'll never know what his rookie numbers would have looked like. As for Allen we have to wait until next year to see what his 2nd season numbers look like. My guess is that had Mahomes been thrown out there in week 2 as a ROOKIE for this years Buffalo Bills team he would have struggled at times. I suspect that he would have had a higher % completion average then Allen because of his greater experience in college but might have had less big plays both through the air and with his legs. I think the season would have ended with the Bills fan base being super excited about next year and how much Mahomes would improve with a year under his belt and after the Bills upgraded their offense.

No what I said in an earlier post was that Mahomes would not have put up MVP numbers with the 2018 Bills and I'm pretty confident of that. Considering the hypothetical situation where the Bills draft Mahomes in 2017 and have him sit out most of the season behind Taylor (like he did in KC) I suspect that in 2018 with a year under his belt he would have graded out as a very good QB but in no way would he have generated the production in Buffalo that he did in KC. I just don't see how stating Mahomes dosen't put up MVP numbers in Buffalo this year is the same thing as saying he isn't a great QB. The truth is that had the Bills drafted him we would all be very confident that Mahomes was the guy, much like a lot of us are with Allen. However, I just don't see him throwing 50 TD passes and over 4,000 yards behind this O-line and to these skill players. And as far as trading away Allen, Jones & Edmonds for Mahomes, get back to me at the end of next year so we can compare apples to apples with both Allen & Edmunds finishing up their SECOND year in the NFL. We might laugh at the idea of such a trade. As an aside I just don't get this obsession with the Bills not drafting Mahomes. A lot of teams with QB needs passed on him. Obviously had they known back in 2017 what we know today about Mahomes a lot more teams then Buffalo would be trying to pick him up.

Not even Mahomes could elevate Clay to anywhere near Kelsey's performance.

That is not what folks are arguing. We're engaging in a classic alt-history exercise which is fun to do because you get to ask "what if"? And in this case the "what if" question is how would Mahomes have fared coming to Buffalo instead of KC. Seems to me that claiming that Mahomes would not have the production in Buffalo that he enjoyed in KC is just common sense and isn't a comment on the effectiveness of our current coach or GM. KC had a solid O-line and was blessed with some of the best skill position players in the NFL. To say that Mahomes would not have put up the same numbers in Buffalo isn't to cast doubt on the guys amazing talent or to trash the Bills organization; it just acknowledges the vast differences between the two teams offensive personnel.

This 100%! I mean had the Bills drafted Mahomes in 2017 and not started him until the last game of that season there is a high probability that he would NOT be in the running for MVP this year and that his numbers in Buffalo would not be close to what they are in KC. In fact there would be a vocal minority here at 2BD arguing that he was a bust while the rest of us would be arguing that we needed to give him more time because he showed promise!

Josh Allen is smiling!

I could be wrong here but wern't "quick, precise passes" pretty much all that McKenzie caught?

I'll reserve my judgement about how much the Bills are investing in their young QB until after free agency and the draft. There are plenty of examples in the NFL of defensive gurus presiding over the development of HOF QB's with the most obvious being Bellichick & Brady.

I'm sure that this kid is on the Bills radar already. He has been productive playing on the best college football team over the last 4 years. IMO he has a number of attributes that the Bills should find appealing not least of which is that he was a walk on who earned his scholarship by producing in practice & on the field. Is he the next Welker? Who knows but the odds are against it as Welker was a borderline HOF guy IMO. But if he can give you a couple of Welker like seasons then he would be a great pickup in the middle rounds.

If we could get Renfrow in the 3rd or 4th round I would grab him in a heart beat. Are people aware that this kid holds the record for most receptions in the college football playoffs? Now this is mostly becasue the playoffs are only 5 years old and Clemson is a regular participant but it's still a startling stat if you think about all the talent that's been on the field the last few years. And Renfrow also caught the last second National Championship game winning TD pass against Bama a couple of years ago. He is clutch and as a walk on he has that hunger you want to see in a rookie. There is no reason the Bills can't go after a big time WR and still draft Renfrow in the middle rounds. There is no substitute for excellent hands and route running ability. I mean if this guy could be like Wes Welker we will have hit a home run. Do people remember how much Welker and later Danny Amadillow killed the Bills over the years?

To be clear I agree with you guys about McVay. The baggage I referred to was more about McVay not having been a head coach before. My main point was to point out how predictably the NFL copies what they consider the newest hot thing. And as others have noted McVay may lay an egg in the playoffs so who knows if over the long haul he really will be that good of a coach? My guess is that McVay will turn out to be a unique talent who is a good coach and most importantly he will not be easily "copied". As an aside, I have to say some of the picks for head coach today are real head scratchers beyond their superficial resemblance to McVay.

As others have noted this looks like an attempt by Arizona to mimic the Rams Sean McVay hiring. You know the one where you bring in the hot new offensive mind with very little NFL experience baggage and unleash him on the league. What could possibly go wrong? My gut says though that Sean McVay's don't grow on trees and once an organization tries to COPY the success (luck) of another it usually doesn't work out. I guess only time will tell. However on the face of it Rosen should be happy with this hire.

He probably choose the Arizona sports media over the New York City media folks.

I've read scientific research papers with less stats and graphs then this stuff! I continue to be skeptical of the use of analytics to assess individual performance in a TEAM sport given the enormous number of variables that effect outcomes on every single play. IMO these folks are applying highly objective statistical techniques to track subjective performance. But with that being said it's interesting that when a different set of analytics are applied Allen's performance goes from being bad to top 10 in the league! That makes sense if you consider that ALL of these analyses are not very predictive of future outcome because they can't fully (mathematically) describe a players past performance. I'll continue to use my eye test, developed over 40+ years of watching way to much football, to determine where Allen is today. As for where he'll be tomorrow we'll just have to wait a few years and look at his top line passing/rushing numbers and his won/lost record to see where he came out. And while I'm confident those numbers will impress I don't believe there is any equation or set of data analysis today that will predict what they'll be. Then again maybe I'm just an old fart with bad eyes!

Living down here in Cincinnati I root for the Bengal's when they're not playing the Bills. But Bills are #1 and the Bengals a distant #2. I guess given the last 20 years that makes me a masochist!

Not at all. Sure in the broadest possible terms you are right that BOTH QB's have to improve a lot in their passing game. But Allen seems to have much superior arm talent compared to Jackson. And UNLIKE Jackson Allen doesn't have near the experience in slinging the ball all over the place. Allen's learning curve is steeper then Jackson's because of the circumstances of his time at Wyoming/Jr College compared to Jackson's experiences at LV. That Allen is clearly ahead of Jackson with respect to his passing game and that I would expect Allen to have an even bigger improvement in the off season leaves me confident in saying that Allen's upside is a lot higher then Jackson's.

This is a great example of where stats can be so misleading! Anyone watching the game could see that Jackson struggled through the first three & a half quarters in a way that few QB's have EVER struggled in the history of the NFL. Now to his credit Jackson took advantage of SD going to sleep and avoided a couple of INT's on that 2nd TD drive to end up posting okay numbers. But on that last drive with the game on the line and SD having woke back up you saw how the WHOLE game would have gone had SD had a crappy FG kicker.