CincyBillsFan

It's not hurt feelings. I've read many expert criticisms of Allen that were balanced & objective. I actually enjoy reading those types of articles as they help me set realistic expectations for Allen going into his 2nd year. I believe that fair & accurate criticism of the Bills QB is welcomed by the vast majority of Bills fans. But so much of what passes for expert criticism of Allen seems deeply personal to me. Bottom line is that in all my years of following the NFL I can't remember a QB as seemingly disliked by the experts as Allen. Maybe Vick but then again he had a much bigger cheering section among the experts. I just don't get why a seemingly decent kid like Allen with an interesting rags to riches story and possessing outstanding physical tools would generate this much antipathy. Why is this guy even divisive? I just don't get it.

I think you're spot on here. For sure a lot of folks are evaluating Allen in response to the over the top negativism that greeted his selection in some quarters. And then when the majority of the "experts" started waving around their impressive charts & calculations claiming that Allen would be a bust it's only natural a lot of us are breathing a sigh of relief that it doesn't look like his floor will be anywhere near a bust.

First this guy clearly dislikes Allen as a QB. I'm still amazed that Allen can bring out so much venom from these folks. They seem to take the possibility that he might be good personal. My guess is that someone like Allen, not being recruited out of HS and not getting a shot after Jr College and making a mockery of their analytics, threatens their rice bowl. These guys make a living trying to convince us they know what they're talking about and if Allen succeeds it's the equivalent to them of a turd in their punch bowl. Second, guys like this use way to much SUBJECTIVE information so why don't we try this little mental exercise: if Buffalo offered to trade Allen even up for another teams current starting QB how many teams would not take the offer? I'm confident in saying it would be a lot less then 31. I'm guessing it might be as low as 10. Maybe lower. IMO that would be a better gauge of where Allen's performance this year has placed him among NFL QB's. As an aside, one reason Jackson has decent passing numbers is the impact of the Ravens outstanding run game. For Baltimore the play action actually means something. Opposing defenses MUST respect the run on a play action pass. This opens up all sorts of opportunities down the field.

The easy or maybe lazy answer to this question is a resounding NO. No QB will ever attain those types of numbers. But I'm in the group that thinks the times they are a changing in the NFL. Today QB's regularly put up passing numbers that we would have thought unreachable in 1980. It's clear the NFL is incorporating more & more of the college game and at some point they'll have to take the final plunge and go with true duel threat QB's to run these offenses at full throttle. That Allen has the physical tools to be an elite level dual threat QB is apparent. It may be that 4,000 yards/1,000 yards is unattainable but what about 3500 yards/800 yards? So since Buffalo was the franchise that gave the NFL it's first 2,000 yard rusher maybe we'll be the first franchise to give the NFL a QB with extreme numbers like these. Who knows but it sure would be awesome to see.

Interesting to see how this thread is progressing. One common theme is how much better Allen played after the injury versus before the injury. This is what appears to have turned around some of his biggest detractors. And IMO this is why we have every reason to be optimistic for next year. The degree to which Allen improved in EVERY phase of his game after the injury was startling to see. It shows an ability to learn on the fly and indicates that we'll see an even bigger jump after an entire off season of work. Allen's lack of high end QB training prior to arriving in the NFL suggests that he may improve to a greater extent then almost any QB in the modern era. Allen is truly a "blank" canvas who is going to benefit greatly over the next 6 months from NFL caliber coaching & the mentoring of Anderson/Barkley. Along with his impressive physical gifts Allen appears to be a quick study. He is simultaneously improving his understanding of the game while also perfecting his throwing mechanics & footwork.

Another losing season that left me excited for the next year was in 1979 when the Bills went 7 - 9 but you could see that Chuck Knox was building a winner and 1980 saw the Bills finish 11 - 5 with a trip to the playoffs.

The big thing that kept Allen from being noticed is that he didn't attend the QB camps during high school. Those camps teach young QB's a lot about what they need to do to improve their throwing mechanics & footwork and they give college programs a chance at evaluating a kid over several days of intense competition against other HS QB's. I have no doubt that even though he was a skinny senior a number of programs would have seen his his arm talent & athleticism and offered him a scholarship. As an aside these college programs are very sophisticated in measuring high school aged kids and estimating their final height & weight by their late teens/early twenties. They would have been aware that he was going to be a big guy and would have planned on red shirting him.

My point wasn't to compare their relative draft standings it was to call out that they both may have been motivated by similar feelings of being disrespected Thomas was very public about his desire to make EVERY team that skipped him in the 1st round pay for their lack of vision. Allen hasn't been so forthright but the story about sending all those tapes out only to hear back from 2 programs had to leave a scar. Allen also had to be aware of what was being said about him by a majority of the "experts" after he was picked by Buffalo.

This times 100! I suspect that if Allen becomes an elite QB in the NFL this will be the reason. His history, given his obvious talent, is unprecedented. You know who this reminds me of? A certain RB who was very annoyed that he wasn't a 1st round pick. I think deep down Allen has a lot of the same motivating factors that helped Thurman become one of the greatest RB's in NFL history.

Great post. That he doesn't throw his teammates under the bus, even for a moment in the heat of a game, is all you need to see about his character.

I agree and also think it's a good thing. Daboll passed his audition this season IMO. Now he gets to build his own staff and has a full off season to help get Allen & company to the next level. I also expect that Dabol will be a key figure in who the Bills go after in the draft & FA on the offensive side of the ball. I also like the decisive way in which the Bills are making changes.

I was all in on Allen after stumbling across a Wyoming game a couple of years earlier. The kid just seemed to have that IT factor and for sure his games were fun to watch if not just for the sheer mayhem & entertainment value. I also remember hearing about the kids story and how none of the elite or for that matter crappy college programs would give him a chance. I thought "man, sending out a thousand tapes and hearing back from only 2 programs, that had to hurt"! Then after Buffalo drafted him and a whole lot of "experts" came out and slammed the pick saying that he could never be an NFL QB given his accuracy issues I got worried and thought uh oh did the bills screw this up? But again I read some in depth stories on Allen's journey to the NFL and thought the "experts" were missing something very important. It was the factor that TroutDog posted above - Allen has had very little QB training in his lifetime. He didn't attend the prestigious QB camps during high school. I suspect his Jr College game plans consisted of having him either running by or over defenders and Wyoming wasn't exactly an Air Raid passing program. But when I saw how much just a few weeks with Jordan Palmer had improved his mechanics I thought this kid could learn to be accurate. He was a perfect example of a blank canvass/raw QB talent. Now I'll throw out the usual disclaimer that he needs to further develop and master the intricacies of the game. And he might never actually reach an elite or even an average level of QB play in the NFL. But I'm optimistic that he will in fact be an elite level QB in a way I haven't been since Kelly showed up to a hero's welcome back in 1986.

I agree. And I think it's fair to say that the difference between Mayfield & Allen is not nearly as big as most people would have predicted last April.

I actually think our offense doesn't need a complete rebuild. IMO we need: * 2 new starting O-linemen. The rest of this group could fill out the remaining 3 spots adequately. * 1 new starting WR. Given their level of experience (or lack thereof) Jones & Foster have shown me enough to convince me that they can be decent WR's next year. Add a go to guy and this unit might go from a liability to a strength. * 1 new starting TE. I would go with a guy that can block first but is a decent check down pass receiver. I believe that with a full off season Grooms can grow into being our #1 pass catching TE. A good blocking TE is needed for pass protection and helping the running game. * a 2nd RB to compliment Shady. I still think that McCoy has gas left in the tank and the Bills will need some veteran leadership on offense. Add a 2nd starting caliber RB and Ivory becomes a back-up giving the Bills decent depth at that position.

I watch a lot of college football to, GO BUCKS, and during 2016 & 2017 i watched several of Allen's Wyoming games on late night espn broadcasts. And the guy was just mesmerizing to watch. Some of the throws I saw him make were unbelievable and the way he moved around behind the LOS was always fun to watch. I actually made it a point to catch these late night Wyoming games because they were so much fun to watch. Allen just seemed different to me. Yea, it was often chaotic but after a day of up tempo, robotic short controlled passing offenses, it was fun to watch mayhem in action. I remember thinking "wouldn't it be cool if the Bills took Allen as a project in the 3rd or 4th round"? Then he started to move up the draft board as he wowed the pro scouts and next thing I know he's taken at #7 by the Bills! The first thing I do is come over to 2BD to see the reaction and the "wrong" Josh folks were out in force bashing the pick mercilessly. But I got what the Bills were doing here - it was a risk but I could see they were swinging for the home run aware of what this kids upside could be. All the while they knew that the bottom could drop out on this pick. And given the utter frustration over the last 20 years, this was the moment to swing for the fences and they did. And for sure the story isn't over. Allen could regress next year or he may never get better. But on the other hand there is every reason to believe that we're on the cusp of seeing something very special blossom at QB for Buffalo. At the very least the next couple of years will be fun to watch!

The funny thing is that in today's college football Allen may have been called for targeting on that play! But the key thing we saw was that Allen shrugged that throw off and went on to have a stellar 2nd half.

On the topic of how a QB gets hurt am I the only one who was screaming at the TV telling Allen not to throw any more blocks? I thought his attempts to impersonate O-linemen were by far his most dangerous plays. And for the record he wasn't very good at it.

This Season Mayfield Allen Darnold/Jackson Rosen Next Season Mayfield/Allen Darnold Jackson Rosen Allens QB rating was higher today then Rosen, Baker or Jackson and with 95 yards rushing and 2 rushing TD's I would think the QBR numbers (for what they're worth) will stay pretty much the same with Allen solidly in 2nd place.

I agree and will go one step further and say that on the first TD pass to Jones Allen made an outstanding throw. If Allen had made the so called "good" throw Jones would have taken a savage hit for at best a 4 yard gain. A hit that might have popped the ball into the air for an INT. The throw to the outside in which Jones made a nice adjustment to catch the pass was the reason he scored a TD on that play. When you watch the reply there were 3 Dolphins converging on the inside route. I believe that Allen placed that ball where ONLY Jones could catch it and there was a zero risk a Miami guy could bat it down or INT it.

I think you're on to something here. The NFL has copied the college games spread offensive attack but have left out a key ingredient - the QB who can both pass AND run. That combined with the new targeting rules means that it may now be possible for a QB to be productive on the ground, stay healthy and still be an effective passer. IMO Allen has this potential. It means that the QB of the future may not need to hit 70% of their passes to be elite. He may need to be able to run for 75 - 90 yards in a game while completing 55% of his passes. The new QB metrics that define how good a QB is might be passing TD's, rushing TD's, passing yards, rushing yards and yards per completion and fumbles lost/INT's thrown.

Wow, that Kelly game was the one I thought of to. Living in Cincinnati we had a big MNF party and it was crammed with Bengal's fans. Man that 1st quarter was nuts. Then Kelly & Lofton started to hook up and I got to live the old saying "he who laughs last, laughs best". I wonder how many of the naysayers about Allen understand just how big his 2nd half performance was in light of the pick 6 he threw right before the end of the 1st half? You're right that you can't coach mental toughness and this kid has it by the boat load.

I hope you're being sarcastic here because IMO they both showed us a lot to be optimistic about the future.

Also in games he started and finished he had a won/loss record of 5 - 5. Which is pretty decent. I'm to lazy to look up all the numbers from before & after his injury (I'll do it latter) but didn't he have 2 TDs/5 INTs before the injury and then throw 8 TD's/7 INT's after? That's a big improvement. I bet his sack rate also went way down after the injury.

And while marveling at Rosen's throw in which he got to take a nap in the pocket the same folks will obsess over every bad Allen throw. Like today where even though he had less bad throws then TD's, there are people who are sure that those poor throws mean he's a bust! Hey, ignore at all those TD's - that's a mirage what you need to be paying attention to is that pass that flew over the receivers head. Yea, that's the ticket! Look I get it's way to early to toss Rosen under the bus. Other QB's had struggled as much a he has only to have exceptional NFL careers. And for sure he's playing on a dumpster fire of an offense. But last April if you kept the QB's identity's hidden and laid out how their seasons went very few people would have picked the right QB to match the won/loss and offensive stats that each actually had.

The Bills took their first possession of the 2nd half 80 yards for a TD with Allen making a couple of great throws and a huge run. So what did you see to make you think he was rattled at the start of the 2nd half?