CincyBillsFan

Not even Mahomes could elevate Clay to anywhere near Kelsey's performance.

That is not what folks are arguing. We're engaging in a classic alt-history exercise which is fun to do because you get to ask "what if"? And in this case the "what if" question is how would Mahomes have fared coming to Buffalo instead of KC. Seems to me that claiming that Mahomes would not have the production in Buffalo that he enjoyed in KC is just common sense and isn't a comment on the effectiveness of our current coach or GM. KC had a solid O-line and was blessed with some of the best skill position players in the NFL. To say that Mahomes would not have put up the same numbers in Buffalo isn't to cast doubt on the guys amazing talent or to trash the Bills organization; it just acknowledges the vast differences between the two teams offensive personnel.

This 100%! I mean had the Bills drafted Mahomes in 2017 and not started him until the last game of that season there is a high probability that he would NOT be in the running for MVP this year and that his numbers in Buffalo would not be close to what they are in KC. In fact there would be a vocal minority here at 2BD arguing that he was a bust while the rest of us would be arguing that we needed to give him more time because he showed promise!

Josh Allen is smiling!

I could be wrong here but wern't "quick, precise passes" pretty much all that McKenzie caught?

I'll reserve my judgement about how much the Bills are investing in their young QB until after free agency and the draft. There are plenty of examples in the NFL of defensive gurus presiding over the development of HOF QB's with the most obvious being Bellichick & Brady.

I'm sure that this kid is on the Bills radar already. He has been productive playing on the best college football team over the last 4 years. IMO he has a number of attributes that the Bills should find appealing not least of which is that he was a walk on who earned his scholarship by producing in practice & on the field. Is he the next Welker? Who knows but the odds are against it as Welker was a borderline HOF guy IMO. But if he can give you a couple of Welker like seasons then he would be a great pickup in the middle rounds.

If we could get Renfrow in the 3rd or 4th round I would grab him in a heart beat. Are people aware that this kid holds the record for most receptions in the college football playoffs? Now this is mostly becasue the playoffs are only 5 years old and Clemson is a regular participant but it's still a startling stat if you think about all the talent that's been on the field the last few years. And Renfrow also caught the last second National Championship game winning TD pass against Bama a couple of years ago. He is clutch and as a walk on he has that hunger you want to see in a rookie. There is no reason the Bills can't go after a big time WR and still draft Renfrow in the middle rounds. There is no substitute for excellent hands and route running ability. I mean if this guy could be like Wes Welker we will have hit a home run. Do people remember how much Welker and later Danny Amadillow killed the Bills over the years?

To be clear I agree with you guys about McVay. The baggage I referred to was more about McVay not having been a head coach before. My main point was to point out how predictably the NFL copies what they consider the newest hot thing. And as others have noted McVay may lay an egg in the playoffs so who knows if over the long haul he really will be that good of a coach? My guess is that McVay will turn out to be a unique talent who is a good coach and most importantly he will not be easily "copied". As an aside, I have to say some of the picks for head coach today are real head scratchers beyond their superficial resemblance to McVay.

As others have noted this looks like an attempt by Arizona to mimic the Rams Sean McVay hiring. You know the one where you bring in the hot new offensive mind with very little NFL experience baggage and unleash him on the league. What could possibly go wrong? My gut says though that Sean McVay's don't grow on trees and once an organization tries to COPY the success (luck) of another it usually doesn't work out. I guess only time will tell. However on the face of it Rosen should be happy with this hire.

He probably choose the Arizona sports media over the New York City media folks.

I've read scientific research papers with less stats and graphs then this stuff! I continue to be skeptical of the use of analytics to assess individual performance in a TEAM sport given the enormous number of variables that effect outcomes on every single play. IMO these folks are applying highly objective statistical techniques to track subjective performance. But with that being said it's interesting that when a different set of analytics are applied Allen's performance goes from being bad to top 10 in the league! That makes sense if you consider that ALL of these analyses are not very predictive of future outcome because they can't fully (mathematically) describe a players past performance. I'll continue to use my eye test, developed over 40+ years of watching way to much football, to determine where Allen is today. As for where he'll be tomorrow we'll just have to wait a few years and look at his top line passing/rushing numbers and his won/lost record to see where he came out. And while I'm confident those numbers will impress I don't believe there is any equation or set of data analysis today that will predict what they'll be. Then again maybe I'm just an old fart with bad eyes!

Living down here in Cincinnati I root for the Bengal's when they're not playing the Bills. But Bills are #1 and the Bengals a distant #2. I guess given the last 20 years that makes me a masochist!

Not at all. Sure in the broadest possible terms you are right that BOTH QB's have to improve a lot in their passing game. But Allen seems to have much superior arm talent compared to Jackson. And UNLIKE Jackson Allen doesn't have near the experience in slinging the ball all over the place. Allen's learning curve is steeper then Jackson's because of the circumstances of his time at Wyoming/Jr College compared to Jackson's experiences at LV. That Allen is clearly ahead of Jackson with respect to his passing game and that I would expect Allen to have an even bigger improvement in the off season leaves me confident in saying that Allen's upside is a lot higher then Jackson's.

This is a great example of where stats can be so misleading! Anyone watching the game could see that Jackson struggled through the first three & a half quarters in a way that few QB's have EVER struggled in the history of the NFL. Now to his credit Jackson took advantage of SD going to sleep and avoided a couple of INT's on that 2nd TD drive to end up posting okay numbers. But on that last drive with the game on the line and SD having woke back up you saw how the WHOLE game would have gone had SD had a crappy FG kicker.

This is a very good point. I predict that 5 years from now Allen will still occasionally take off and run for 25 yards when the opportunity presents itself. His elite RB level vision (those cuts at speed are intuitive), acceleration and size will make him very dangerous when he scrambles out of a broken pocket. Consider Detroit & NE, the 2 teams that sold out to keep Allen from breaking any long running plays. Their schemes did work but Detroit still lost the game and Allen & his receivers came within inches of catching passes that would have added 2 - 3 more TD's to make the Bills/NE game a lot more interesting. As Allen improves his passing game AND the Bills elevate his current cast of skill players with another TE & WR, the scheme that NE & Detroit used will blow up in their face as given time in the pocket Allen will carve them up through the air. And I'm not talking short check down passes - I'm talking about 20 yard laser beams down the field. With Jackson, the SD scheme will work even better next year as defensive coordinators fine tune it. This spells trouble for the Ravens. Jackson will have to improve his passing game from the pocket a LOT more then Allen will need to in order to break what defenses are going to try to do to him.

For me: Best game: Miami. 1st, we squished the FISH. 2nd, Allen had a breakout game that gave us all hope for next year. 3rd everything in that game that involved the Kyle Williams send off. Favorite Moment: The 75 yard TD pass from Allen to Foster in the Jacksonville game. Coming back from injury we had no idea how Allen would play. The big question marks involved his pocket presence and accuracy. That play answered BOTH for me. How he got the ball out in a way that would hit Foster on the run 45 yards downfield still amazes me. IMO this was the most impressive TD pass of the year by any team.

Yep, by my count he had three fumbles today losing one. That will be a problem if not corrected.

First off kudos to Jackson for at least making the game exciting at the end. Sure there was a bit of luck involved but you have to give the kid credit for taking advantage when the Chargers took a nap. Second, I get why Harbaugh didn't bring Flaco in. he figured with the Chargers in prevent Flaco would carve them up and score a "meaningless" TD and start up a QB controversy.

Shame on that ref. You almost never see that called in the NFL.

Good old prevent defense. More coaches should lose their jobs over employing this tactic. Sure the pass back to the middle of the field should have been intercepted and then a 2nd INT was dropped on the same drive but that's football and the ball bounces in weird ways. Also lets be clear Anthony Lynn doesn't exactly come out of this game smelling like roses.

I disagree, particularly concerning the Cowboys versus Sea Hawks game. * BOTH offenses struggled to generate any points & yardage UNTIL their QB's started to run. Designed runs by the QB's were the key to both teams putting points on the board in the 3rd & 4th quarter. * Wilson's scrambles led directly to several of his biggest pass plays and to points on the board. * Again it seemed to me that the definition of QB "accuracy" in the NFL is not what the Allen critics claim it to be. I saw numerous throws by both Wilson & Dax that were not accurate by the classic definition where a ball has to be placed on the hands, chest high and in the center of the body. NFL accuracy means getting the ball to a place where the receiver can make a play on it.

Exactly right. It was weird watching the Bucs this year as they did not play offense like an Urban Meyer team. For example, as good as the 2 RB's were they were not the type of RB's you want when you're throwing the ball all over the field. I think in the right situation Haskins could be a very good to great NFL QB. The Giants would seem to be the best fit where he could sit and learn behind Eli and when he does take over have maybe the best RB in the NFL lining up behind him. The big question IMO is how well will Haskins adjust to NFL pass rushes. He has struggled to throw on the run and he doesn't have anywhere near Allen's athleticism. But when he has time he can make all the NFL throws, reads the field well and has plenty of touch.

I don't think he lost out as much as the Bills plan was to sit Allen through at least the 1st half of the season. In this they were following the example of KC with Mahomes. My guess is that the folks at One Bills Drive did not want to have a repeat of what happened to Goff under Fisher. Not only did Goff struggle big time but the decision to throw him to the wolves his rookie year cost Fisher his job. McDermitt isn't stupid and he wanted to be careful with his rookie QB in a way that Fisher wasn't with his. The problem is that events spiraled out of control. First, McCarron was not the guy they thought he was, then Allen struggled in the face of a relentless Bengal's pass rush and finally Peterman had played well in preseason. The Bengal's preseason game was a warning to McDermitt & company that with the Bill's O-line in tatters starting Allen against Buffalo's early season schedule would result in Goff part 2. The problem was that Peterman started the season out historically bad. I mean 9 straight possessions without a single 1st down! The Bills had NO choice but to throw Allen to the Wolves. All things considered he actually did okay against the Chargers and then against all odds Allen had a great 1st half (along with the D) against the Vikings in staking out a 27 - 0 lead. But remember how in the 2nd half they basically didn't let Allen throw a pass! It was clear they wanted to preserve this one good showing against the expected future struggles - like at GB the next week. The thing is that against many expectations and in spite of struggling at times Allen did not melt down but rather improved as the season went on. Particularly after he came back from injury. So now the Bills are ahead of the curve with Allen and McDermitt avoided a Goff like disaster. This is why we're optimistic about next year. Stability at BOTH QB and Coach is huge for any team that wants to make the playoffs.

I think we might be surprised at just how many teams with "established" QB's would make that trade in a heartbeat.