ngbills

Only mention the record because of the call out of facts. The opinion is he should be considered 7-4 but the fact is that he is 7-5. That is what the record books will show. Not looking to debate or argue anything, it is what it is. Lamar Jackson is a better passer than Josh Allen as of now. I do think the running part of his game will be less significant as teams game plan to limit it and he will rely more on his passing skills. It is much easier for a defense to scheme around limiting a running QB than a passing one. Still an important skillset but to be a QB you need to be able to throw the rock.

Lets keep it real and honest. I was referencing passing stats and said not sure where the 21 TD's comes from. I never said rushing TD's dont count. And talk about inaccurate facts: "And maybe if we didn’t have scrubs like Zay, McKenzie, Foster, etc rotating as our starters opposite Brown all year" - Zay and Foster barely played. McK was our gadget WR. It was Brown, Beasley, Knox, and Singletary in most sets. Sprinkle in McK, D Williams, Roberts, etc. He was not second to only Lamar. Just a quick search shows Brees had 26 TD's, Tannehill 26, Winston 25, Wilson 24, Watson 24, Dak at 23, Garappolo 23, Cousins 23, Fitzpatrick 23, and a few more with 21. His stats show he was 7-5 not 7-4. You can put a asterisk but that does not change the "fact". Rushing TD's do count. Without his rushing ability Allen is not even close to the same QB he is. It supplements the shortfalls in his passing game. But as the NFL has shown is not sustainable. A QB needs to be able to throw the ball. Allen as a throwing QB is not there yet.

He only had 20 TD's all year. Not sure were the 21 TD's comes from. And from week 5-17 he threw for over 250 yd's 2 times (300 zero times). He completed less than 60% of his passes 5 times. QB rating in 60's 4 times. The team was 7-5. He was not dominant. He was a game manager.

I think it is the intent. I am assuming but this has the looks of a "if your going to punish bad white people why not punish bad black people".

Does not mean they are not trying. He could be waiting things out to find the best landing spot. No reason for him to rush.

Another way to ask the question who would they trade that is tradeable... Murphy Kroft Yeldon Long

Last season Seattle was 12-6 in a season Clowney dealt with injuries. In games he played 75% of the snaps they were 6-1 including 3 wins vs playoff teams.

Sign Clowney to 1 year deal and cut Murphy. Easy instant upgrade.

How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?... Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.

Brees was never labeled as inaccurate the way Allen has been. It was a strength that he improved upon not a weakness that he has reversed. Ryan was 62% his Soph and Jr years and dipped to 59+% his Sr year. Overall was still 60%. Those are all higher than Allen has ever achieved at any level. Again, if we were seeing Allen hit 64% one year and 55% another then I would say it is more of a training and consistency issue. But he has only shown to be a lower completion level guy. Right now that is who he is and if you look at history there are not many examples of QB's that guy from being that guy to a different one. I watched Rodgers at Cal practice nearly everyday. He came from a small high school and then JC like Allen. But his accuracy and Allen's are not even close. Rodgers could go 100 straight passes hitting a guy on the numbers. He was that good. It is part of his make up. That is not Allen and he is not likely to become that. The hope is he gets better but I just dont buy the whole he really is not that different than all of these great QB's. He is and everyone knows it including Josh. I would be shocked if he is sitting around making excuses, adding in a few passes here and there that make his numbers look better. He knows it is an issue and will make or break his career.

Here is the difference in all of these comparisons around improvements, etc. Brees was a >60% completion guy in 3 years at Purdue. He came to the NFL and did the same and improved upon it. Look at Brady, M Ryan, Rivers, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, Watson, etc and you see the same. All better accuracy in college and similar trend in the NFL. Allen was a 56% completion guy in both years at Wyoming. He actually was sub 60% at his Junior College and even in High School as well. In the NFL he has been the same with a light uptick last year. Yet, we want to assume he will get more accurate and reference that others have done it. Allen would be the exception not the norm.

I dont read on here anyone being extremely negative. Unless saying at this point in his career he is in the bottom tier of QB's as a passer. With a good defense and his running ability you can have seasons like last year. But he has not shown that he can be a top tier QB yet. You can debate the stats dont mean anything, etc etc. But stats at this point mean more than opinions. If that is ridiculous to say then you are just not being objective.

That is the point with the "eye test". It adjusts to whether they are currently a Bill or no longer a Bill. On the old message board I got into a ton of debates with folks because I said EJ sucks. Of course, now people will not admit or simply forgot about saying the same things. EJ has not had enough time, his coaches suck, his support system, excuses #1-100. I think Allen is a much better prospect. But he is a work in progress still. He is as bad as his stats show. His play will limit the Bills if he cannot improve.

Super Bowl QB #2 and #10 in ANY/A Conf Champ Losers #1 and #11 Div Round Losers #4, #7, #8 and #12 All 8 of the final teams playing in the playoffs were in the top #12 in ANY/A. ALL OF THEM. Looks like a good correlation to winning. Only 4 exceptions and one lost in the wild card game and other 3 were Dak in Dallas, Stafford in Det, and Carr in OAK. Wild Card Losers 3, 16, 17 and 23. Allen and the Bills were the lowest ANY/A QB to make the playoffs. Only 3 teams outside of the top 12 made it. Call it a franchise QB or simply what you need from your QB to win.

Manuel Year 2 5.54 ANY/A 3.8 TD%

ANY/A EJ Manuel 5.07 Josh Allen 5.16 TD% EJ Manuel 3.7 Josh Allen 3.8

And why does Josh get the "extra" but that does not apply to everyone else? Play this game with everyone and it pushes everyone's numbers up.

Well until there is a new season and Josh plays better the talking points are still valid. They dont go away because people want them to go away. They dont go away because we have Diggs. Not because its year 3. You have to play the games first.

But Jim Kelly, but Eli Manning, but Starr, Unitas, Namath. But but but. Oh jeez, maybe your right. Our offense was not good enough. Our QB was not good enough. As a traditional passer he was downright bad at times. He is going into his 3rd year. He is struggling at the things "coaches/scouts" expected. That is ok. But if people want to be protective of him and debate based on emotion that is fine. End of the day it is what it is. He does not improve, this front office seems to be thoughtful enough to not want to invest $100-200M in the kid.

I am with you on this. People confuse seeing his weaknesses with hating him or this team. Do you you think his coaches dont see his weaknesses? I can 100% guarantee you that his coaches and if you take any of the 32 teams coaches they would see the same thing. His #1 problem is accuracy/consistency and #2 is decision making. He has compensated for that with his athleticism but that is not a long term recipe for success as a QB. Those that really want to dig into to this - go watch every pass for the top 10 QB's in the league. Then watch the same for Josh Allen. If you still see him being just as accurate and only impacted by drops or taking more chances, etc then you are just not being real. We all know he can make all the throws but its consistency making them. He still has handfuls of balls a game that are just not at the level he needs to be at. This is not high school or college.

How many pro bowl OL do we have? Do we have cap space? Sign Warford and see if we can get a pick for Feliciano, Spain or whoever is odd man out. It’s an upgrade.

Gotta at least kick the tires.

Taking my boredom up a notch. Looking ahead at week 17. Hopefully Bills have the division locked after stomping the Pats the Monday before and are resting the starters vs MIA. Around the league some good match ups with play off spots on the line: CLE vs PIT HOU vs TEN SF vs SEA CHI vs GB AZ vs LAR DEN vs OAK (not saying LAV)

Bills v Niners on Sunday night game

Bills open season home vs Jets 11/1 the Pats in town 1/3 MIA in town