Zerovoltz

Frank Gore

1. I like the player. The money is steep. I don’t care though because this was a major need. KC still in win now while Mahomes is cheep mode. 2. The salary cap isn’t really a limiting factor if your owner is willing to spend cash up front and you can just roll the cap hits backward as long as the cap keeps going up. KC isn’t done. I’d put odds on Trent Williams at 50/50 right now

No, they aren't....they have 5 or 6 guys who they will be converting roster bonus to signing bonus.

Unfortunatley, this was the plan in the Super Bowl.....KC made no adjustments, and just rolled out as if all was well... Obviously I love Mahomes....and I thought he could overcome it all....but he's human...I hope that the FO understand that you keep Mahomes upright and healthy first. That's it....job 1. Everything else is after that.

Allow me to clarify alot of this. 1st. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread....Mahomes big money hasn't kicked in at all yet. ...for reference..Ryan Tannehill will make more than Mahomes...FOR TWO MORE YEARS. Furthermore, you'll see it in the next few days...KC will just convert a bunch of guys "roster" bonus over to "signing" bonus and kick that money down the road....open plenty of space....this is not a CAP hell situation for the Chiefs. Todays moves weren't about losing their top 2 offenseive tackles...KC lost both of them during the season....and it manifested itself at the worst possible time (Super Bowl) Cutting Fisher, who almost certainly won't play this year....on the last year of his deal....is just smart conservation of cap space....Schwartz, only played a little to start the year and he was Horrible...you could tell his back was BAD. He's been outstanding when healthy....again, too much of a risk for KC to hold onto for a guy with what appears to be serious back injury.... I'm not telling anyone this is good...but the moves today were just reallocating money back to the roster/cap, that was going to players who we ALREADY don't have now. Mahomes did start out in a good situation....but his line has gotten worse each year and game he's played. Mitch Morse leaving was the beginning of the the line regressing. Mahomes hides some O line problems.....especially the bad interior line because at least the Tackles were good....he couldn't overcome 5 really bad JAG level guys all starting in the SB.... KC's line has been horrible and unable to generate push for 3 years going now...limits the red zone stuff and goal line stuff....adn 1 yard to go stuff KC can do.....IF they put together a a new line that can get some push....it MIGHT...(I said MIGHT) be a plus. This needs context. Austin Reiter is the worst starting C in the NFL. He has been the last two years. He gets NO push, and he doen'st allow sacks because his job is to help one of the guards double someone. He's horrible. They can NOT possibly bring in a worse replacement......EXHIBIT A: Go back and watch KC Bills week 6. KC started Daniel Kilgore at C that game.....I was SURE KC would keep roling with Kilgore...he was awesome that game...and he was also awesome in the other game he started this year for KC....should have started the whole year. Reiter SUCKS. Moving on from him does NOT make things easier for the otehr team..this is GOOD FOR KC. I want to agree with this.....when Josh Allen got to the Bills...you guys had one of the worst lines I've ever seen.....congrats to Beane and McD for getting that thing turned over into somehting good in a short time. Too early to say yet....I would venture to guess that KC is going to rebuild the line, but that line chemistry is one of the most underrated aspects of football. No matter who KC rolls out there, it's going to take time to get the chemistry rolling. That alone will probably hold the O back some. but if they can put a decent group on the field that can A) get some chemistry and B) get a little push in short yardage, then KC's O should round into high level form as the season goes on. I have other thoughts on that, but this isn't the place for it. Let me hit the starting C leaving again....that was the plan no matter what. Reiter Sucks (and you can find posts I've put on this board saying so for a long time) KC also did draft Lucas Niang from TCU in round 3 last year. He had 1st round grades, but injury red flags....he opted out of this past season for Covid...but reports are he's all healed up....so if Niang is legit..that's one replacement. In this odd COVID FA year...there may well be some decent bargain linemen available in FA...and this is a deep draft at OT.....KC SHOULD be able to get this built back up in short order......it's the key to their offseason for sure.

CORRECT. He hits the market, and QB needy teams wtih CAP space will write a check Dallas can't cash. DAK is in a good spot....he is going to get paid either by 1. Tag again...2nd tag is huge money like 38 mil. 2. Dallas signs him...or 3..he hits market, where he will be offered without any doubt at all..a contract that would pay him more than Mahomes...it isn't based on wich of the 2 is the better player....it's the MARKET. CORRECT. See above.....you just need to be really good and in the market....because both those conditions rarely apply to QB's at the same time...so when it happens...it happens big. No...they won't.....a third tag would come in around 60 million or more....all on one years cap....they couldn't afford it..../..... it would destroy their cap and roster.

I think Mahomes didn't play one of his better games....he, along with the offense as a whole....kept trying to go downfield....when the underneath was there for the taking..runs were there to be had. I've said before....that line you saw in the Super Bowl...was bad...it was the worst line KC has fielded since Mahomes has been QB...but I'd tell you that because KC has won with Mahoems, playing with bad lines before....they clearly thought this wasn't different than those times....but it was...and they didn't adjust....at all..not even at halftime. They were SURE they could keep running our deep route offense, because even with line problems...Mahomes just runs around and finds someone anyhow.....that works if he had half way stay moving WHILE STILL looking downfield....there is a big difference when the rush is inisde and out and you can't do it. Mahomes also, when the line is playing bad.....start to assume every play it will be bad and not step up into the pocket....agian, things that they've gotten away with this whole time.... ......the team, coaches...Mahomes himself....didn't want to admit they were the team that had to adapt to someone else....we've been teh team that you had to adapt to. Arrogance. This game doens't change who Mahomes is or what he can do, or what he will continue to do. His overall body of work speaks plenty for his abilities...he needs niether propped up, nor knocked down for Sunday. KC needs to understand that Mahomes is mortal...football.....beleive it or not....is still a team game....I think they will understand that lesson going forward and Mahomes is going to still be the same Mahomes, whoever you think that is.

Yes Transplamt, I concede to you whatever point you want to make. The part that matters is the part where they have enough to win it all. Having now experienced losing the super bowl, the debate about who the better QB is between Mahomes and Allen doesn’t matter. The Lombardis do. I will trade you all the league MVP trophies you want, all the yardage you want, all the 50 td passing seasons you want and all the strongest arm contests you want...if it meant my team won the super bowl. im not trying to skip out on the debate or deprive you guys of some claim of having “the best” QB. I’m just saying that I’m done with that argument and the only part that matters is whether or not the QB in question has what it takes to build a team around that can win. we could go point by point, and again if you made the case Allen was the better QB, then what....Mahomes 2nd best then? Great. I concede. You win. All that matters is I know I have a guy that I can win a Lombardi with. You have access to all the same charts, stats, graphs, film and information I do. If you’ve seen enough of that and you want to say Allen is better, he has farmer background, etc. seriously, I concede. You have Allen, best QB in the NFL. I hope KC can make the right moves and put together a squad that can win again with the elite QB we have.

(in honor of Rodney King) .....Can't we all just get along? Let's examine the Allen, Mahomes (and whatever otehr QB you might want to insert here) It's hard to win a championship in the NFL. The teams that do it...seem to do so, with a really good QB....and at least a few other really high end players on O or D or both. Let's just say the God of football came down from on high, and unequivically declared Josh Allen the winner. .......Then what? If you don't know the answer the "then what" let me tell you the answer. If you don't win the super bowl....it doens't matter that much. We all like to admire our teams players and we like to enjoy these "who is better" debates..... I'm telling you now...especially since Mahomes just lost to Brady and the debate is OVER. ....I don't care if Mahoems is 2nd, 3rd, 4th., 10th best...you CAN HAVE IT. Having won the SB, and now lost one in my lifetime.....inject me with more lombardis....I don't need another MVP award, or baby goat debate....or 50 TD's passing again....I don't care. Football is/was WAY WAY MORE FUN when your team wins...and is peak fun, when you when a super bowl. Give me more of THAT. All I need to know about Mahomes is that he is capable of leading a team to championships. He IS. I'm good. Allen is capable of it too. I'm looking forward to the offseason to see what my team does...and hopefully improves as you guys are yours....you know, like I do....you have a team that CAN do it becaue you know you ahve the QB who CAN. That's it....the debate isn't Allen VS Mahomes...it's .....Does you team have a championship caliber QB that can get it done or not? That's it.

I was a huge fan of the podcast....one of the few pods you could listen to and get REAL insight that Terez and Charles Robinson gathered from their contacts around the leauge....I HATE when someone uses the term "insider" and it's just some dude who knows as much as I do already.....that was NOT the case with Terez and Charles on this podcast...always learned something every eopisode and very entertaining and insightful. I usualy don't get sad for stuff like this...but this sucks...another kick in the nads in a week full of getting kicked in the nads.

He is percieved as having little to do with the offense. (not entirely true, but he doesn't call plays on gameday) He does have a very checkered past. on the one hand Pederson and Nagy got jobs having been the OC for Ried and also not calling plays. Niether has the checkered past. Rumors around the leauge say the guy just doesn't interview well. I think he'd do well on a team with a QB ready to go....so if he had gotten the Chargers or Texans job (with Watson staying) he'd do well enough...he'd put a good staff around him I am sure. This SB didn't help his cause.

Even though the core will be back in 2021, there are going to be alot of new faces on the team. Some guys who won't be back. Watkins, Robinson, Bell, Breeland, ....and probably Mitchell Schwartz....I think his back is worse than everyone thinks...and he'll reitre. Fisher is going to miss at least part of the season...he's not cheap for a guy that isn't going to play much of the year.... Clearly, whatever KC does all offseaon...pritority 1,2 and 3 are O line. I know it's a bills board but you asked... Here is the thing about KC the last few years....we play EXPLOSIVE offense...we do not play efficient offense. I don't think that's really all by design....I think they know that having the line they've had, limits the efficiency.....follow me for a second...when you can't get a push in situations where you need to have the threat to run....short yardage, and inside the 20....you are limited. Defenses don't have to commit to the box when you can't get a push or aren't a threat to run...it's not been that big a problem becasue KC makes more than enough big plays to overcome it...but it's gotten worse. I don't know or care, how they do it...but the line has to be upgraded. I haven't spent any real time on it...but KC did draft Lucas Niang in the 3rd last year. He has a chronci hip progblem and he opted out for Covid this year....he might be a guy that is injured alot and/or isn't a "football player" ...but he has round 1 talent for an OT...fell to 3rd for reasons I jsut stated...NEED....badly NEED that guy to have a best case scenario where he IS a 1st round talent, who isn't plauged by injuries and takes football seriously. Some have suggested signing Kelces brother from philly to be Center...I'm all for it...he can't be worse than what we've had. KC has simply not committed resources to O line in a very long time and it shows....they need upgrades all teh way through. If nothing else gets done this offseason....and they address jsut the line..the rest will be adequate enough....gotta keep mahomes upright and develope some ability to run when you need to be able to run.

Let me address this first.....and speaking for myself...not other Chiefs fans...anyone can say what they want....here it is. KC played a bad game. Clearly the O line played a bad game....the game plan was BAD. KC arrogantly kept tyring to run the deep routes they always run and rely on Mahomes to find an open guy somewhere. They didn't run against light boxes like they should have (remember buffalo game week 6? I don't why KC didn't think that was a good idea in the SB, but it was in week 6.) They didn't change the plan at all when it wasn't working...arrogant. Part of that arrogance is that KC has played with a bad line the whole time Mahomes has been the QB...They've played with the backups to bad linemen and won...they thought that finaly, down to all backups...they'd still be able to do play same game. They couldn't. Poor planning. Some people will say this is the blueprint....IT WAS ALWAYS the blueprint...this was't the first time a team dropped 7 and rushed 4 and had success VS KC...KC still was more competive those other games....because they were always fielding at least a couple O line starters... someone else mentioned that I HAVE SAID on here, the way to beat KC is a steady diet of TE and RB throwing. The Raiders do it to us all the the time...we only win because we are ablet to outscore them...I said before the AFCCG...Buffalo....really great team....but HORRIBLE matchup for what KC does on D.....even Tampa didn't realy have much success going to the WR's....but they also didn't realy need to as we were are normal, awful selves covering their TE and RB. The Chiefs D...wasn't even that bad...normally, KC's offense is able to stay in a game like that. The problem was the offense.....too arrogant to take what was given...and they were giving KC run looks and short stuff....should have taken it. I'm not going to blame the officials...KC wins games with 10 penalties for 100 yards all the time. Personally, I had an arogant view of all this myself.....Mahomes has masked holes and won until this SB...I thought he could do it again. HE could not. You all are thinking I am/was Jeffismagic. I am not. Unless you think Jeffismagic has spent 3 years also posting on a Denver Broncos board with the same avatar and propping up Josh Allen, and writing a TON....of posts over there about the Chiefs and Broncos....that would a whole lot of effort....I'm not that guy. Mahomes has opperated behind average/bad lines his whole career...the one he was hehind sunday was the worst group he's ever been behind in that it was missing both starting tackles...the best two parts. I joined to watch how the trade would work and how Allen would work out. I didn't think Allen would work out at all. I changed my mind as I watched him develop and do things I didn't think he would ever do. I have written several posts here defending teh Bills sid of "the trade" While I have always been a Mahomes fan and happy to talk about him....I have been very complimentary of Allen all season....even moreso than some Bills fans here....he's elite. He is a franchise QB...you should be glad to have him...and you shouldn't want to trade him....not even for Mahomes...he's your guy...and you can win with him...it's early, you just made the AFCCG with a young franchise guy....there is a very very bright future ahead.....and I've been saying all year how I've been looking forward to these guys going at it for the next decade... Since coming here and watching Allen...the Bills are my second favorite team. I love to watch Allen play...he's awesome. Allen and this community won me over. ....so yes....I came here with intentions of douchebaggery.....I'd like to think if you looked at my posts from year one to now...you'd notice a difference. I'll be around.....anyone care to go search for my bad takes....I'll own it. Otherwise...looking forward to popping in every now and then to talk FA, draft, etc....and can't wait to see KC/Bills at Arrowhead next regular season...maybe another AFCCG will be in the works at some point between our teams. Thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your great community here.

Yeah.....I'm here today to have my crow with Buffalo sauce.....been over at the Denver board eating Denver Omlet Crow........this sucks.

KC 35, TB 16

I think your roster overall, is pretty good...you guys would know better than me though what Barkley would do if he was driving the car.

.....I wish they would maybe more clearly define the parameters of the award..... If you are voting for the player who means the most to his teams success....then I can see why a Rogers or Allen would and should win that award. The Packers are a 6-10 team without Rodgers...the Bills probalby 8-8 without Allen this year. I think the Chiefs roster with Chad Henne, could probably manage 10-6 in the AFC west as it was this season....so to the extent that Rodgers and Allen mean more to their team...they are deserving of the MVP award......If the award goes to the guy that is teh "LEAUGE" MVP....then that proably should go to someone like Mahomes when he's being talked about as a guy breaking records and going to another super bowls...they vote on regular season...so there is that as well. one thing to note...Mahomes is a PETTY PRICK when it comes to this stuff....you might see him flash a 1, 2....3? at some point during the game. The same thing for "coach of the year" Frankly, I'd have given that to Shanahan....he had the 49ers competitive most games despite a glut of injuries and playing with 2nd or 3rd string QB's all year....It was amazing that team didn't completely collapse.....but that award usually goes to a coach whose team just went 10-6 and was bad the year before....to where voters think that coach...coached em up to being in the playoffs. I'll take lombardis though, if given a choice.

This one only includes last season....I am still looking for where I found the 2018-2021 stat....but this illustrates the same point. https://www.theringer.com/nfl-playoffs/2021/2/5/22267622/patrick-mahomes-third-and-forever-chiefs This one doesn't quote the stat...but they have pretty much all the info here.

Well...you are certainly right that google search doens't help.... I have heard local radio guys in KC say it several times....like many details of that story...not alot was said about the conlcusion of the whole thing once all the initial reports came out. I'll look at this more when I have time and see if I can find something defintive that backs up what I am saying here. I've been on twitter demanding the same thing....The Chiefs...the Rieds...do it through surrogates if need be for legal reasons...whatever....no reason this shouldn't be handled.

Athleticism. I'd give this to Allen...he's bigger..runs faster...probalby can lift more etc and so on...To the extent these things translate to the football field....Mahomes has plenty of athleticism...but Allen has more. Arm Strenth. would be great to see these two in a long throw contest. ....as it matters on a football field, both have VERY ELITE strong arms. Leadership. From all I gather Allen is a great leader...loved by his teamates and coaches...and fans. I would say Mahomes is a great leader...you may have seen the mic'd up Mahomes go over to Mecole Hardman after his fumbled Punt VS the Bills in the AFCCG and tell him, to get his head out of the towell....that Mahomes would be looking his way and that he (Hardman) was going to do great things in the came still. Mahomes went right to him after that...and Hardman made a couple huge plays in that game. In the Super Bowl...down 10 with 7 minutes left...on the sideline, walking up and down it telling everyone they were about to do something special that people would be talking about forever....and then going out and doing it. and so on. Hard to say who would be better....both seem to have confidence and leadership ability in spades. Competitive drive= I can't speak for Allen....I have heard that if Mahomes is playing football or tic tac to...his aim is to kill you. He's very calm and cold about it. Work Ethic - So...again, I can't speak to Allen....but about Mahomes...his wife is a certified personal trainer...Mahomes works out ALOT when he isn't playing football...and when he isn't working out he is studying film.....A LOT....one thing about Mahomes..is that being married, he isn't out chasing women...his wife and him are both workout warriors, and Mahomes, the son of a pro athlete and who has nothing but love for the game....is like Payton Manning....constantly watching film, working out...thowing with his teammates....he just bought property in KC upon wich he is building a full size football field with lights and everything....so he can hold non sanctioned practices with his teammates. He is the very definition of drive and work ethic. Accuracy. Depends on how you want to define it I guess. In general, both throw accurately.....depending on your criteria....it's hard to make a distinction. IF you are including deciision making as part of this stat...that decidedly goes to Mahomes. I'd add that all these things you point out matters....i'd add 2 more. Ability to handle mental pressure. No one is calmer or cooler than Mahomes....I've never watched football like I do with Mahomes as QB......like when KC fumble he punt VS the Bills....it's weird...it was like...it didn't matter. I did'nt think anyhting of it....Mahomes overcomes those things.... ....the stat that sets Mahomes appart...and it's insane. Since Mahomes became a starter in 2018, Mahomes has a QBR of 95.3 on 3rd and 15 or longer. The entire rest of the NFL averages 6.3 QBR on 3rd and 15 or more. That's crazy. Mental Processing. This is probably the one that sets Mahomes apart. No one reads a field faster and better than Pat Mahomes...explains that 3rd and 15 stat too. Blitz? Mahomes knows where to go? 7 deep? Mahomes finds the guy...you just watch hi eyes....never seen a QB scan the field as fast as he does... ....and since it's just Allen and Mahomes we are talking about...you'd have to tell me....but Mahomes DOES try to hero ball a little too much someitmes...but the other good parts of his game allow for this. These things are always fun....and as you can see I have responded....but this should be pretty much played out by now. Allen is a franchise QB. He belongs up at the very top of QB discussion. I am an Allen fan. He's incredible. We will see Mahomes and Allen for a long time.

I agree with your sentiment....but I would say that if Britt Reid is still a coach after this....then you'd have "whitewashing" at its finest / worst.

They were. I was just answering the question of would Britt play if he was a player. I guess I could have elaborated a little futher....I should have said, if not in the midst of serving a suspension, then he would. I would guess, he would also be subject to league discipline on this if he were a player....and I do understand where the questioner was going.....seems there is a double standard for when a coach, GM, owner does this stuff.

Come on....the answer is is pretty simple. Antonio Brown is going to play in this game. They keep giving Josh Gordon chances. Many would say Tyreek Hill is playing (see my thoughts on that earlier in this thread)

Don't take it as an attack....curious how it's being "muzzled" ? it's on twitter, it's on ESPN.com...we are talking about it here....

First....As mentioned in some of the above posts....Andy Ried is a big "second chance" guy. I am sure some of you hear have probably thought Eric Beienemy should have an NFL job by now....and when you look at his very checkered past....you might see why at least in part...he hasn't gotten one yet....EB has been a "2nd chance" that worked out. Ried, clearly trying to support his son, has given him employment...and so on...because it's his kid...It's both admirable that he is tyring help his kid...and abhorent that he is trying to help his kid...in that the 35 year kid has a lifelong addiction problem and Ried has put him in a position, to represent the team and community and by doing so, exposing the team to this sort of distraction. Clearly the no.1 problem is that a child was badly harmed here....and if Ried's son was not employed by the Chiefs....we'd problaby still know and it would still be bad...but it's worse because Ried put his own neck, and the teams wellbeing on the line to help out his kid..... Britt Ried, should find that he can no longer be an employee of the Chiefs after this...and if Andy insists on it...then Andy will have to no longer be an employee of the Chiefs unfortunately.....hopefully, the justice system will deliver justice and hopefully Britt Ried can get whatever help he needs to get past his addiction problem. Second. A LOT of NFL players are not "good" dudes. Some are really awful dudes. Fine...I don't need to know that the guys I am watching are great people...I want to see a sport played at it's highest level....I would like for them all to be good people...but they aren't...I'm at peace with that. Having said that....I want to once again revisit Tyreek Hill. Hill is not a "good" dude. I am not here to convince you he is. I would however implore you, to consider that there is more to his case than the bits the media has hit on. It's a FACT that he was convicted of hitting/beating his pregnant girlfriend. It's also a FACT that the state of Kansas awarded him sole custody of his children once all the dust setlled on the case where he was accused of breaking his kids arm. The state determined that the mom was likely to have been the person to break the kids arm...the state determined that she and her mother were making false statements, lying, tyring to frame Hill etc.....this was the same woman involved in the college pregnant girlfriend incident. In recorderings....she admits she made that story up back then....and when you look at actual evidence in that case.....you can make a compelling case that he didn't beat her. He had no money back then for a lawyer and in a "he said/she said" domestic violence case, it was advisable to plead out to avoid jail time. Again...Hill isn't a good dude....being involved in these kind of issues more than once isn't a good sign...and saying the crap he's said...suggests he's not a good dude....you don't have to like him..you can hate him all you want.......but he's still in the NFL..and never got the hammer brought down on him from Goodell because there was nothing to bring it down for. That's all....the narrative that he broke his kids arm gets old...