Zerovoltz

Schwartz didn’t play in either game. Just say in. Im not going to pretend it’s good KC has lost both tackles. It’s not. It sucks and it’s significant. I would say that there is a reasonable chance the line comes out of this rebuild, better than it was. Outside of Schwartz, this wasn’t a good line anyhow.

I like the move. 6.5 sacks last year. 10.5 in 2018. What this actually does is allow KC to move ChrisJones out to end on passing downs. They did a lot of this in the 2019 AFCCG vat he Titans and it was effective. adds depth as well. It’s a one year deal. Mahomes is still relatively cheap. (Tannehill has a higher cap hit this year than Mahomes)

I thought at the time KC signed him, it was overpay.....and in retrospect it was a major overpay....oddly, the offense metrics were better with him on the field than not...but I think KC could have found a no.2 WR for 1/3 the cost and been fine. .....a wierd but true stat. KC, with Sammy made 3 consecutive AFCCG appearances, winning 2 of those and 2 super bowls, winning 1 of the 2. Maybe he's a good luck charm or something. Not that it matters here....alot of fans in KC upset we haven't signed a "no.2" WR this offseason so far. I'm kind of glad they haven't.....I tink you can put a bargain FA on the roster and Mahomes will help the stats...but there is only so many targets....Hill, and Kelce take up alot...and KC spreads it out quite abit beyond that....no reason to expend substantial resources on a guy that would be the 4th option most weeks. He'll do well in B'more. .....thing about that team...it's offense sputtered not because of lack of WR...it needs 2 high end TE's to run well....they should have gotten one of Junnu Smith or Hunter that NE got.

I don't have a specific stat prediction...I'd just say that Allen will be among the ELITE tier of QB. The Bills will be a Super Bowl Contender as long as he's on the field. He'll be super fun to watch. Other teams that passed him up will continue to burn with envy. hopefully KC can compete for AFC supremacy again this year...would love to see KC/BUFF AFCCG again. Either way.....I'm looking forward to seeing what Allen does again....great player....so much fun to watch!

Lots of good discussion here.....I did not intend for this to be about what KC does or how they opperate. I was asking YOU ALL...because of what I've seen around here....cap worry....especially when it involves Allens upcoming deal. (KC FANS WERE NO DIFFERENT before Mahoems signed) I had forgotten the dark day when the Bills let go of Bruce Smith and Thurman Thomas due to the "cap". KC also used to have alot of the same conditioning from the top when Lamar was still alive and Carl Petersen was running things....I can't tell you how many times Carl Petersen would say "Cash and Cap Dollars" in a press conference...it was maddening. Anyhow...I was asking to legitmately ask and see what people thought....and many of you answered....lots of good thoughts here about the topic.

I suppose they could have.....at some point you say, this is what we think this is worth and you are done..... I'm not trying to brag on KC here or say that how they are doing business is the correct or only path.. .... I've seen a lot of "but we will have to pay Allen, Edmunds, Oliver etc etc etc etc" in alot of threads. Much of the KC fanbase was teh same before we signed Mahomes to his extension...eveyrone always worried there wouldn't be money for Mahomes deal.... I'm just wondering if Bills fans have been burned by bad cap management in the past...or worried about paying Allen? just general pessimism after long drought?

It sure as hell wasn't because KC gives a crap about the cap...reports are their offer was right up with what the 49ers gave him.

As I read through the free agent threads here....a whole lot of talk about steep prices for guys (always that way this time of year) but what I notice is that the Bills fan base seems overly cap conscience. I am not very familiar with Bills spending history or how they work with the Cap....and I certainly don't know the Pegulas ideas on this or Beanes..... My questions to you are: 1. Is everything ALWAYS about the future? Is there ever a thought about "now"? 2. Do you see a team that has had the cap kill them and you don't want to do the same? ...was that team the Bills at some point? 3. Do you think the cap can be manipulated or do you believe that the piper that needs paid, is always right around the corner? There are no wrong answers to these questions....everyone kind of has different ideas on how this should work or how things ought to go with spending and contracts.....just wondering what the community here has to say about it since you all, IN GENERAL....seem kind of skittish about spending money (having the Bills sign folks..I know it's not your money)

I disagree.....if mangaged right...you can kick and kick and kick..until you are ready to pay the piper....the piper doesn't come for you....(again, if done right)

I know this is a Bills forum, so forgive me that this is a Chiefs post...but KC having to deal with the OT's AND the IOL this offseason is a wrench in the works...they were always going to have to address the IOL....but they thought they had BOTH starting OT at cheap prices for one more year.... The Line was going to get something of a makeover for 2021 anyhow....and 2022 would have been the OT's as well....it's all just happening at once...not ideal.....but considering again...that this has never been a good line...especially in short yardage....there is a chance that KC comes out BETTER (MAYBE!!!) on the other side of this. Also could be a nightmare if more injuries or chemistry doens't work.

As of today (not sure bofore or after Signing Long) KC had cleared 30 million in Cap space for new league year. I can't stress enough that the CAP is not prohibative, if you beleive it keeps going up and your owner can write checks when needed. Thuney will be the starting LG. Niang DID opt out last year for Covid.....and by all accounts, his hip has healed up and he's strong and chomping at the bit. Right now...he's IT at RT...that is risky...will see what other moves they make.

By all accounts he will be back. He played poorly the season BEFORE covid....he will compete for the RG job along with Long. One of them will win that....and the other is the backup. Frankly I suspect the MD wins it because he has no versatility otherwise....Long probalby more valuable as a backup to every spot on teh line but Center.

1st ...addressing the bolded comment...NO. No it was not. See last response for more on this. Your resident Chiefs fan here to offer insight..... That's waht this is....a low risk, high reward signing....Long spent the last 4 years of his playing career hurt often...then retired...an now back....very talented when healthy....of course...that's the key here isn't it? Keep in mind KC signed Long as possible starter, and depth piece...he can play tackle as well if needed. Yep....he may well suck....5 million to see if he does or not....OK...for one year prove it deal..that's fine. I've alluded to it before....KC's oline looked really great against the Bills in week 6..and was good in the conference championship game.....but in week 6 KC started the backup C...who was better than the starter....and probalby that lineup was the BEST one we fielded all year. ....even if you consider the regular grouping though...our interior O LINE WAS BAD. no push..not good at pass protection either (ignore the sack number, Mahomes makes alot of that look way better than it is) Stats and national pundits always think KC has "good line"....they haven't had a good line since 2018. It's been steep downhill on the IOL since. Long is NOT being looked at as a surefire starter...he will compete for the RG job..but if doesn't win that....will be depth peice. Also plays tackle if needed..he's a depth peice that might win starting job. Good signing in that regard.

The cap is just a formality AS LONG AS..... A) it keeps going up B) your owner has no problem with doling out CASH at any given time. There is no "crazy" to it. You convert salary to bonus, wich is paid RIGHT NOW....and then that can be accounted for on down the line..and as long as the cap keeps growing...you don't ever care....or you pick a year like for example, when you think Mahomes will retire, and kick it all to THAT season....you eat all the dead money finally....then. And start over. Otherwise....the cap is just a formality. You'll be waiting a while. (that isn't bragging on KC...it's the fact that there is no "crushing" coming anytime soon. ) Stud OT tend to have long shelf lives....think Willie Roaf.

Thuney only hitting the cap at about 5 mil this year. KC has plenty more to spend. Don't be surprised if you hear KC has ALSO signed Williams soon. As far as KC signing a Guard, even though we lost/cut our two tackles....I've said here many many times...KC has had trash for interior line for YEARS...this was badly needed. KC will roll with Niang on the right side most likely...and as I mentioned....don't be surprised at all if Trent Williams is a Chief in the next 24 hours. KC has freed up more money...Williams hasn't signed yet and reports are he's simply going to highest bidder. SF and KC are the bidders at this point. I also want to point out again, that the CAP is just an accounting structure that teams must work within. IF you believe the cap will keep expanding....AND you have ownership that doesn't have a problem writing signing bonus checks up front...you can kick that can as far as you want to kick it.....YES, you eventually have to pay that piper someday....but if you manage it reasonably well, you can kick and kick and kick until YOU decide when to pay the piper. Just as KC has Mahomes on a big extension...that still has NOT kicked in...the Bills will be on this path with Allen soon too....As long as you draft well enough to have some of the starters on your team, on cheap rookie deals....outperforming their paychecks....then the cap is just framework that you deal with year to year.....so for KC and Buffalo.....the game is going to be kicking the can to the end of Mahomes and Allens careers.....and by the time they retire etc..you are rebuilding anyway....you can pay the piper when THAT day comes....people WAY WAY overestimate the limiting power (or lack of it) that the cap has.....

Frank Gore

1. I like the player. The money is steep. I don’t care though because this was a major need. KC still in win now while Mahomes is cheep mode. 2. The salary cap isn’t really a limiting factor if your owner is willing to spend cash up front and you can just roll the cap hits backward as long as the cap keeps going up. KC isn’t done. I’d put odds on Trent Williams at 50/50 right now

No, they aren't....they have 5 or 6 guys who they will be converting roster bonus to signing bonus.

Unfortunatley, this was the plan in the Super Bowl.....KC made no adjustments, and just rolled out as if all was well... Obviously I love Mahomes....and I thought he could overcome it all....but he's human...I hope that the FO understand that you keep Mahomes upright and healthy first. That's it....job 1. Everything else is after that.

Allow me to clarify alot of this. 1st. As pointed out elsewhere in the thread....Mahomes big money hasn't kicked in at all yet. ...for reference..Ryan Tannehill will make more than Mahomes...FOR TWO MORE YEARS. Furthermore, you'll see it in the next few days...KC will just convert a bunch of guys "roster" bonus over to "signing" bonus and kick that money down the road....open plenty of space....this is not a CAP hell situation for the Chiefs. Todays moves weren't about losing their top 2 offenseive tackles...KC lost both of them during the season....and it manifested itself at the worst possible time (Super Bowl) Cutting Fisher, who almost certainly won't play this year....on the last year of his deal....is just smart conservation of cap space....Schwartz, only played a little to start the year and he was Horrible...you could tell his back was BAD. He's been outstanding when healthy....again, too much of a risk for KC to hold onto for a guy with what appears to be serious back injury.... I'm not telling anyone this is good...but the moves today were just reallocating money back to the roster/cap, that was going to players who we ALREADY don't have now. Mahomes did start out in a good situation....but his line has gotten worse each year and game he's played. Mitch Morse leaving was the beginning of the the line regressing. Mahomes hides some O line problems.....especially the bad interior line because at least the Tackles were good....he couldn't overcome 5 really bad JAG level guys all starting in the SB.... KC's line has been horrible and unable to generate push for 3 years going now...limits the red zone stuff and goal line stuff....adn 1 yard to go stuff KC can do.....IF they put together a a new line that can get some push....it MIGHT...(I said MIGHT) be a plus. This needs context. Austin Reiter is the worst starting C in the NFL. He has been the last two years. He gets NO push, and he doen'st allow sacks because his job is to help one of the guards double someone. He's horrible. They can NOT possibly bring in a worse replacement......EXHIBIT A: Go back and watch KC Bills week 6. KC started Daniel Kilgore at C that game.....I was SURE KC would keep roling with Kilgore...he was awesome that game...and he was also awesome in the other game he started this year for KC....should have started the whole year. Reiter SUCKS. Moving on from him does NOT make things easier for the otehr team..this is GOOD FOR KC. I want to agree with this.....when Josh Allen got to the Bills...you guys had one of the worst lines I've ever seen.....congrats to Beane and McD for getting that thing turned over into somehting good in a short time. Too early to say yet....I would venture to guess that KC is going to rebuild the line, but that line chemistry is one of the most underrated aspects of football. No matter who KC rolls out there, it's going to take time to get the chemistry rolling. That alone will probably hold the O back some. but if they can put a decent group on the field that can A) get some chemistry and B) get a little push in short yardage, then KC's O should round into high level form as the season goes on. I have other thoughts on that, but this isn't the place for it. Let me hit the starting C leaving again....that was the plan no matter what. Reiter Sucks (and you can find posts I've put on this board saying so for a long time) KC also did draft Lucas Niang from TCU in round 3 last year. He had 1st round grades, but injury red flags....he opted out of this past season for Covid...but reports are he's all healed up....so if Niang is legit..that's one replacement. In this odd COVID FA year...there may well be some decent bargain linemen available in FA...and this is a deep draft at OT.....KC SHOULD be able to get this built back up in short order......it's the key to their offseason for sure.

CORRECT. He hits the market, and QB needy teams wtih CAP space will write a check Dallas can't cash. DAK is in a good spot....he is going to get paid either by 1. Tag again...2nd tag is huge money like 38 mil. 2. Dallas signs him...or 3..he hits market, where he will be offered without any doubt at all..a contract that would pay him more than Mahomes...it isn't based on wich of the 2 is the better player....it's the MARKET. CORRECT. See above.....you just need to be really good and in the market....because both those conditions rarely apply to QB's at the same time...so when it happens...it happens big. No...they won't.....a third tag would come in around 60 million or more....all on one years cap....they couldn't afford it..../..... it would destroy their cap and roster.

I think Mahomes didn't play one of his better games....he, along with the offense as a whole....kept trying to go downfield....when the underneath was there for the taking..runs were there to be had. I've said before....that line you saw in the Super Bowl...was bad...it was the worst line KC has fielded since Mahomes has been QB...but I'd tell you that because KC has won with Mahoems, playing with bad lines before....they clearly thought this wasn't different than those times....but it was...and they didn't adjust....at all..not even at halftime. They were SURE they could keep running our deep route offense, because even with line problems...Mahomes just runs around and finds someone anyhow.....that works if he had half way stay moving WHILE STILL looking downfield....there is a big difference when the rush is inisde and out and you can't do it. Mahomes also, when the line is playing bad.....start to assume every play it will be bad and not step up into the pocket....agian, things that they've gotten away with this whole time.... ......the team, coaches...Mahomes himself....didn't want to admit they were the team that had to adapt to someone else....we've been teh team that you had to adapt to. Arrogance. This game doens't change who Mahomes is or what he can do, or what he will continue to do. His overall body of work speaks plenty for his abilities...he needs niether propped up, nor knocked down for Sunday. KC needs to understand that Mahomes is mortal...football.....beleive it or not....is still a team game....I think they will understand that lesson going forward and Mahomes is going to still be the same Mahomes, whoever you think that is.

Yes Transplamt, I concede to you whatever point you want to make. The part that matters is the part where they have enough to win it all. Having now experienced losing the super bowl, the debate about who the better QB is between Mahomes and Allen doesn’t matter. The Lombardis do. I will trade you all the league MVP trophies you want, all the yardage you want, all the 50 td passing seasons you want and all the strongest arm contests you want...if it meant my team won the super bowl. im not trying to skip out on the debate or deprive you guys of some claim of having “the best” QB. I’m just saying that I’m done with that argument and the only part that matters is whether or not the QB in question has what it takes to build a team around that can win. we could go point by point, and again if you made the case Allen was the better QB, then what....Mahomes 2nd best then? Great. I concede. You win. All that matters is I know I have a guy that I can win a Lombardi with. You have access to all the same charts, stats, graphs, film and information I do. If you’ve seen enough of that and you want to say Allen is better, he has farmer background, etc. seriously, I concede. You have Allen, best QB in the NFL. I hope KC can make the right moves and put together a squad that can win again with the elite QB we have.

(in honor of Rodney King) .....Can't we all just get along? Let's examine the Allen, Mahomes (and whatever otehr QB you might want to insert here) It's hard to win a championship in the NFL. The teams that do it...seem to do so, with a really good QB....and at least a few other really high end players on O or D or both. Let's just say the God of football came down from on high, and unequivically declared Josh Allen the winner. .......Then what? If you don't know the answer the "then what" let me tell you the answer. If you don't win the super bowl....it doens't matter that much. We all like to admire our teams players and we like to enjoy these "who is better" debates..... I'm telling you now...especially since Mahomes just lost to Brady and the debate is OVER. ....I don't care if Mahoems is 2nd, 3rd, 4th., 10th best...you CAN HAVE IT. Having won the SB, and now lost one in my lifetime.....inject me with more lombardis....I don't need another MVP award, or baby goat debate....or 50 TD's passing again....I don't care. Football is/was WAY WAY MORE FUN when your team wins...and is peak fun, when you when a super bowl. Give me more of THAT. All I need to know about Mahomes is that he is capable of leading a team to championships. He IS. I'm good. Allen is capable of it too. I'm looking forward to the offseason to see what my team does...and hopefully improves as you guys are yours....you know, like I do....you have a team that CAN do it becaue you know you ahve the QB who CAN. That's it....the debate isn't Allen VS Mahomes...it's .....Does you team have a championship caliber QB that can get it done or not? That's it.

I was a huge fan of the podcast....one of the few pods you could listen to and get REAL insight that Terez and Charles Robinson gathered from their contacts around the leauge....I HATE when someone uses the term "insider" and it's just some dude who knows as much as I do already.....that was NOT the case with Terez and Charles on this podcast...always learned something every eopisode and very entertaining and insightful. I usualy don't get sad for stuff like this...but this sucks...another kick in the nads in a week full of getting kicked in the nads.