Shaw66

You know, this just isn't true. Brown played around 230 pounds. Most of the full backs in the league were 220 to 235 or 240. None of those other fullback were gaining 1500 yards in a 12 game season . They were gaining 800. And qbs were attempting 15 passes a game, so it was no because Brown was getting more carries. They couldnt tackle Brown for the same reasons they couldn't tackle Peterson or Dickerson. If you listen to anyone who played or coached in that era, NO ONE talks about Brown being oversized liken you say Chamberlain was oversized. And to talk about Sanders' power is silly. He was a power back just like McCoy. Just because he ran inside didn't mean he had power,

Amazing balance and ability to absorb hits. Relentless. Since we're posting videos, here it is, the greatest kickoff return of all time.

That's interesting. Most of you aren't old enough to have seen Sayers. He was amazing. I remember when he was coming out of college I saw three highlights from his career. Kickoff return for 99, punt return for 95 and run from scrimmage for 97. It was jaw-dropping. Simpson had this way of gliding in the open, just sort of flowing through the defense. Sayers ran like that.

I really don't agree with this. As I've said elsewhere, I think Shady is a poor man's Sanders. Sanders' change of direction was simply devastating. He'd keep his center of gravity low, bend his knees and get his feet out in from of him. When his feet hit the ground, he would push off one way or the other or straight ahead. In any case, his hips and torso were still going full speed, trying to catch up where his feet were. When he pushed off, often to change direction, his hips and torso lost almost no speed, so he was going full speed almost immediately out of his cut. I don't think there are any more defenders who could deal with those cuts today than there were when he was playing. He was just amazing. The reality is that what makes the top 5 (maybe Brown, Simpson, Peterson, Sanders and, oh, just say Jackson) so great is that they would be great in any era. OJ was clearly better than Tomlinson, and Tomlinson was real tough in the modern game. Brown and Peterson are similar, so they clearly could move between generations. Jackson was like them, too - speed, power and shiftiness. And Sanders was and would be uncatchable. Obviously, I was and am a big Brown fan. I did like sweetness simply because he was running over Brown's records. I kept watching him and thinking "he's got nothing." But "nothing" always seemed to turn into 100-yard games. At some point I put my prejudice aside and just started watching him. He was a truly fantastic back, even though he looked ordinary week after week. Still, the very best were better.

Your description of the Juice is accurate. Your description of Brown isn't.

Yes, but I've thought that what's likely is that the Bills would do something like package a couple of later round picks, which is where their extra picks are, with maybe their third to move up for a second pick in the second. And I've also thought that Beane might be very willing to trade out of 9 with some team that's QB hungry, so that he could end up with two late first round picks. Bottom line, as we all know, is almost anything is possible. Beane's certainly not afraid to make deals.

Great example of why draft talk here and everywhere is worthless. It amazes me that you think you know that Simmons is better than Oliver and Wilkins but that he will be drafted behind them. That means that no GM drafting in the top 10 will figure what you know. Man, those GMs are stupid!

I agree. I seriously doubt Beane would give up his first next year for anything. It's contrary to his philosophy. I think it's more likely that he'd move up 5 or fewer slots, just to get the guy he wants. That's essentially what he did with Edmunds.

Wow. That sounds like he's been told by someone who knows that there are one or more players that Beane really would like to get, so much so that he'd be willing to give up picks to move up. We all know that it makes sense to move up for a QB, but that's not happening. And we saw last season that he was willing to move up for a middle linebacker. He'd need a second pick, or a third and fourth, to move up to 5. Very interesting.

Payton was amazing in a different way. He didn't have any of the classic attributes of any of the great ones - he didn't have great speed, he didn't have great moves, he didn't have great power, but he had just the right combinations of just enough of all those things that he was a great, great back.

No they don't think Zay is better than Beasley. Zay isn't their guy. But they didn't sign Beasley because the they think he is the answer. They signed him because they have a hole at receiver and they think he can fill it until they draft the guy they want. That's the EXACT same reason they signed Cotchery and Boldin. Same with Matthews and Maclin. And it's the same with Brown. If he is with the Bills five years from now, great, but I think if Beane were frank with you, he would tell you he doesn't expect Brown to be on the team. He expects Brown will lose his job to someone the Bills draft or sign as an undrafted free agent. Like Foster. I don't know why people have so much trouble internalizing what Beane says. He is NOT looking for answers in free agency. He is looking for stopgaps. Morse, I will grant you, is the exception. I think what McBeane expect of themselves is to have a good record drafting and signing rookies. They are not expecting to build a team with free agents. Would they like to have done better on their free agents? Sure. But other than Morse, is their a free agent they've really invested in? It simply is not their philosophy.

I think we all tend to misperceive what McBeane hae been doing. Beane tells us and we keep forgetting. YOU BUILD YOUR TEAM THROUGH THE DRAFT, AND YOU FILL HOLES IN FREE AGENCY. Benjamin and Boldin and Matthews and Maclin and Cotchery all were attempts to fill holes through free agency (or trades). If they find a keeper in the process, great, but that isn't their objective. So you can't conclude that McBeane thought any of those guys were good. They were guys they hoped would fill holes.

Well, I'd never watched that video. It's pretty bad. Now, to be fair to the receivers, no team's receivers makes ALL those catches. A lot of those catches were pretty well contested by the defenders. The real problem is that if someone put together a video of CONTESTED catches the Bills made, it would be a lot shorter than this video. Also, a few of Allen's throws were bad. Finally, the same thing happened to me that happens every time I watch 2018 plays - what I see is a really, really good quarterback.

Mostly I think what you say here proves none of us knows what we're talking about. Pro scouts, pro gms and pro coaches understand so much better than we who can make it and who can't. Yet we all still talk about it like we're experts. The press and most people here were convinced that Allen had great talent and was, at best, a project, if not a wasted pick. I'd bet that most, maybe even all, GMs knew otherwise. Whether Metcalf is Julio Jones, Megatron or Kelvin Benjamin, I don't know. By the end of April, McBeane will know.

Nobody except Brown. Nobody except Brown.

The primary way Brown was tackled was the first guy missed him, the second guy got stiff armed, the third guy grabbed one leg and got dragged three yards and the fourth and fifth guys jumped on Brown's back. Sure, it's an exaggeration, but there were more plays like that than you'd think.

I'm sold. I like that analysis, from Belichick all the way through. The guy has some monster skills. Drops are a concern. Can he respond to the process?

No, it isn't. Otto Graham was Paul Brown's Tom Brady. Oh, and the aforementioned Marion Motley running the ball. Brown was a genius on a par with Belichick, although playing a much simpler game.

It was a two-division league. Six teams in a division for the first 4 seasons in his career, seven teams for the last four years of his career. Over that span, the Browns won or tied for 4 out of 9 division championships. That's not bad.

Joe Cribbs reminds me: The Bills are definitely in the running for best all time stable of running backs. OJ, Thurman, Cookie, Cribbs, McCoy, Lynch, McGahee, Henry, Bush, Antowain Smith, and now Gore. Just about every team in the league would kill to have Fred Jackson be their EIGHTH best all time running back. Think of this: 32 teams in the league, each team should on average have four running backs in the top 128 all time. The Bills have 11!!! And that doesn't include Gilchrist, who could very well be in the top 10 best running backs in pro football history. Okay, drop out Bush and Gore and count Lynch, McGahee and Smith as one instead of three. That's still 7 of the top 128, plus Gilchrist. There is an incredible rushing legacy in Buffalo.

I don't agree in either case. But one of the most amazing things in the history of football is that those two guys just mocking defenders trying to tackle them played on the SAME TEAM IN COLLEGE!!!

Hemma's right - if you're interested in learning about Brown, read this article. Belichick, when asked how Brown would do in the modern, just says "oh, my God" or something to that effect. Adrian Peterson, the guy Brown thinks is most like him, looks at video of Brown in awe. Barry Sanders says he couldn't dominate a game like Brown. It's really an amazing article. I'd venture to guess that NO NFL coach would take Bettis in his prime over Campbell in his prime.

I almost wrote a post about his run against the Cowboys. It's described in article. Most amazing three yard touchdown in history. As John Wooten described it, they started a sweep to the left and when Wooten, the pulling guard got out there he said "everybody is out there. The end, the tackle, the linebacker, the safety, the corner. Everybody.” Brown retreated to 10, Wooten says, and then somehow willed himself past everyone into the end zone. Simply incredible.

WOW!!! Haven't finished the article, but it's great! Thanks. It's worth it just for the photo of Ali, Bill Russell, Jim Brown and Kareem. Incredible.

I don't remember that. That would have been like Brown and Simpson in the same backfield, only better. There's only one ball to rive to your running back, but there are two paths to the quarterback. I mean, can you imagine that? If I'm on the team that starts White and Smith at the two defensive ends, I want to be a defensive tackle. With the constant double teams on the outside, I'm going to get a lot of good looks at the QB.