Shaw66

Alpha - I didn't watch the video, so I don't know. But I DID watch the video that was up a few weeks ago - something like 8 minutes of Bills dropsfrom 2018, and I was amazed at how many of them were Zay's. My recollection was that he had been better, but he had a lot of balls that were easy catches that he dropped, and he had several more that were reasonable NFL catches that he dropped. He has to get better, or he's toast. And I know you're saying this (you've told us about 100 times) but the more I think about this the more I think he actually could get cut.

Sills changes the picture, in my opinion. If he shows promise, the Bill's won't want to risk putting him on the practice squad. Of, as most seem to think, Beasley, Brown and Foster are the top three, Zay's upside has to be better than Williams or Sills. It might be hard for Zay to show more upside than either.

Alpha I give you credit. When you started this thread, my first reaction was no way. After a while I thought, well, maybe. Mow I think there's a good chance Zay will be gone. Beasley, Brown, Foster, Roberts, Williams, Sills could easily push Zay out. Sills? The problem the Bill's have with Sills is that if he shows real promise, they won't be able to hide him on the practice squad. The problem Zay has is that Sills and William's are his competition, and both of them are fierce competitors. Zay has to step up his game immediately, because those two will be pedal to the metal immediately. Great prediction.

Please. Never accuse me of being sober.

This thread is excellent evidence as to how difficult it is to run a pro football team. The reality is that running any large organization is a complex endeavor and cannot be reduced to a simple conclusion about anyone any aspect of the operation of the team. The notion that the team was or was not in cap hell when Beane took over makes for an an interesting discussion, but the team's cap position at any given time is only one of many aspects of the success of the franchise. Other aspects include the quality of the coaching, the quality of the players, the conference within which you are playing, the division within which you are playing and a myriad of other factors that affect the outcomes of each game and each season. These discussions often break down into name calling and battering of one another in an effort to establish one position or another about one of those aspects of the operation of a pro football team. The more dug in people get on their positions about these this particular issue, the more difficult it is for them to see and evaluate the team as a whole. It is much like McDermott's approach to team football. He has said repeatedly that the game is a complementary game; it's one where the offense, defense and special teams work togethe; it's one where teams within the team such as the offensive line team, the defensive line team, the defensive backfield team all work together. Beane and his team had many decisions to make when they took over and from day-to-day moving forward. That is the nature of the business. He has admitted frequently that not all of those decisions can be made correctly, and he has made his share of mistakes, just he has anyone else would do in that job. One major decision was the choice to gut the team and throw the team into a terrifically adverse cap situation for a relatively short period of time. That was a decision. It may have worked well it; may have worked poorly. Some other decision may have worked better and it may have worked worse. The important point is not whether the that particular decision was the best decision that could have been made. The important point is whether the decisions that he makes collectively add up to the success they are seeking to the success they are seeking to achieve. Many of us think that Beane is on a good path toward success. Whether he is will be much clearer to all of us in November.

Got it. They had a choice. You can argue about whether it would have been possible to build a winner just moving forward with what McD inherited. I really dont know. On another point, good discussion about how significant second I. total yards really is. I like the points about DVOA and passer rating. Those are two gos measures of how effective the D really was. My impression was that the offense struggled so that badly that the defense simply couldn't win games alone. A decent offense with that defense would have won a.bumch of games. O line has to perform this season. And Allen. And Daboll.

Beane's been clear. They had a choice. They didn't have the players they wanted. They could have moved them over a few years and managed the cap less drastically or they could clean house and live with the cap mess. They decided that the fastest way to get where they want to be was clean house. Given that, I don't think the notion of "getting a pass" applies. Like lots of new GMs and coaches, they wanted different players. The only question of relevance is whether they're getting the job done. It looks to me like they are. The particular question here is whether getting Star and at his price was a good move. I don't.know, and I don't trust anyone's conclusions here about that. I'd like to know what McB thinks about that question.

You make the point that I was thinking about. I don't think we have any idea what it was that caused McDermott and Beane to want to bring Star to the Bills. I firmly believe it was some combination of his play, and his attitude and his leadership skills. McDermott has said often that it is important to have a leader in every room. That means he wanted to have a leader in the defensive line room, and he knew that Kyle Williams would be leaving after 2018. I think Beane signed Star in order to fill the leadership void in the defensive line room. He also signed him because they knew about his work ethic and his general leadership skills. I think any effort to evaluate whether Star is worth what he's being paid has to be made in light of what it was that McDermott and Beane wanted, and I don't think we really understand that fully. As others have said, even his play on the field is tough to evaluate. If his job is to force double teams and simply to occupy blockers, I doubt any of us has studied his play that carefully to know how effective he has been. And M D platoons d linemen, so expecting much more tha. 50% of the snaps isn't reasonable. I think Beane knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that check.

I think people seriously misperceive who Shady is as a human being. First, I don't know of any evidence that he is too concerned about his numbers. None. He played all the way through last season and never complaimed. Never. He played his heart out, every game. No whining, no sulking. No refusing to go back on the field. No dissing the linemen n or the n play calling. Not once. Off the field? Yes, he has some of the hood in him. Since he's been in Buffalo he's had a few things go on that were embarrassing. So, fine, he grew up in a different culture, and he has trouble leaving that behind. T that doesnt mean around the team he has a bad attitude. Yes, thats true with some guys from the hood. Not Shady. He's a leader. Remember when Sammy was hurt in training camp and not practicing? Shady could have said "he should get out here with the rest of us." Instead, he said something like "keep the Ferrari in the garage." That was a team oriented guy speaking. Shady was the star and could have thought of himself as the Ferrari, but no. Sammy was the the guy who was projected to make a difference, and Shady didn't hide from it. Finally, you gotta listen to McBeane. Both during and after the season they were asked whether it was time to move on from Shady, bench him, cut him, whatever. Every time they're asked that question they are completely clear that Shady is going nowhere. And they seem surprised that anyone would think that Shady shouldn't be on the team. After the draft, someone asked about having too many running backs and how someone would have to go, maybe Shady. Beane said, without any qualification, "LeSean is the starter." Don't kid yourself. Shady is a leader, and he has exactly the attitude McB want. Watkins didn't. Gone. Dareus didn't. Gone. If Shady didnt, he'd be gone too.

Thanks for these tidbits. I enjoy having some understanding of what these guys are thinking, and you're giving us all a chance to understand. Great stuff. As I listen to McBeane, I continue to be impressed. They can't be right about every judgment about players, but they have a good reason for every decision they make. And their reasons are all driven by a consistent and thoughtful team-building process. Thanks again.

Man, there's the process on display. Read those quotes. McDermott wants guys obsessed with winning and doing everything they can to win. Everything, even if it's being a hoorah guy. When McDermott has a room full of those guys, McDermott thinks he can accomplish anything, because the effort turns into a 100% team effort. No one cares about himself. This isn't a mindset that McDermott wants to teach. It's a mindset he wants hard wired into the guys he has on his team. He may need to remind them from time to time that that's who they are, but he doesn't want a guy he has to convince about this philosophy. Dawkins has it. They wanted Allen because he has it. Oliver has it. Beasley has it. Shady and Gore have it. Hyde has it. Kyle had it. Ford and Knox and Sills have it. You can hear it in how they talk about who they and what they do. McBeane are building a team of guys who all say the same thing: "Let's get to work."

That's really interesting. Hadn't made the connection. Offensive line - nasty. LInebackers - speed. There is a mold.

I will add to that. No. McBeane are not about making a wild dash to win a Super Bowl followed by a decline. They're building to get on top and stay on top. You can't stay on top mortgaging your future.

It feels off to me, too. I didn't follow him, and maybe his production fell off because of injury, but Ziggy gave me the impression that he was something of a one year wonder. It seems every year or two there's an edge rusher who comes I to the league and explodes with double digit sacks, then he fades. Teams figure out how to block him, or they attack weaknesses in his game, and he becomes ordinary. Ziggy gives me that impression, and add to that the injury concern. I have doubts that he is a multi-year solution. So, yeah, I can see why teams don't want to give him a multi-year deal.

Others have said that the free agent s I goings were mostly marginal players, backups, etc. That's generally true. But I saw an interesting thing a month ago from some coach or GM who said that lineman coming out of college are generally unable to play immediately 9in the NFL. There are exceptions, of course, but they generally don't come with the skills they need, and the only way to get the skills is to play. He said there's so little contact now in training camp and practice that linemen kneed a lot of time on the field in games to learn. Like a few years. So that's something that is promising about the Bills' free agent linrmen. They've been in the league a few years and they've gotten a reasonable amount of playing time. So the chances are that some of them are ready to blossom. For example, just as one scenario Dawson takes a step forward at LT, Morse is what we expect in the center, two free agents with experience take guard spots. That just leaves one youngster, and he will get the benefit of veterans all around him. That collected experience should contribute to the improvement this year.

Very difficult to build a top 5 line from scratch in one year. I think your expectations are a bit high. Is it possible? Yes. There's leadership with Morse. There's good experience with all the free agents. So the ingredients are there. But it's a new line coach. And the linemen have no experience together. It may take more than a year to blend into a god unit. More likely scenario is that the 2020 line 8s good, with 3 or 4 ca%yours from 2019 and 1 or 2 upgrades. Thats when you'll have a combination of talent and experience together. I'm expecting a better line in 2019 but not top 5.

You may be right. I get why you think so. And I agree; I can see how he might succeed. However, 32 teams didn't draft him. That means something. It means he is low probability. Some part of his physical package is just too limited to make him likely to succeed. If he makes it, and I really hope he does, it will be because he has great hands and is so smart that he makes plays just by mastering details. Not saying he is Steve Largent, but Largent succeeded in that way. He just did everything exactly the way he was supposed to. He is in some ways the perfect McDermott player. A guy who desperately wants to succeed, a smart guy, a guy with something to prove. He said in his call with the Bills when they signed him that he wouldn't let the Bills down. McD loves that attitude. He is the kind of a guy who if he simply isnt good enough to make it, he reinvents himself as the best long snapper in the history of the game. Great story.

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for posting this. Watch it if you get a chance. Several reactions. I remember when he got the scholarship offer. Didn't know he was the guy. Kiffen's done a lot of stupid stiff in his career. Beane and McDermott live smart, and Stills is smart. They love determination and this guy has it, He's a good bet to take Zay's roster spot this year or Beasley's in three. Allen is going to love him, because he is a route runner. He will always be where he is supposed to be. And he has quarterback hands. McBeane live these guys. Smart, determined. Doesn't quit. If you haven't seen the ESPN piece, look for it. It's worth it Thanks to everyone who posted about where we could find it.

That's a really insightful commentary. I hadn't thought about the Allen angle - acquire a legitimate franchise qb prospect without mortgaging the future. I think Beane is one talented dude.

Look, I don't know Singletary, but I think concluding he doesn't have it based on the Oklahoma game is off base. First, Oklahoma had a lot of trouble tackling him. His shifting as beat several OU defenderz, and he was breaking tackles. Second, his TEAMMATES are the guys who play at the Bethune Cook man level, and THEY are the ones who were over matched against OU. THEY were the ones who couldn't make the blocks against NFL caliber defenders. I wonder whether Singletary can take the pounding he will get in the NFL. I'm not worried about 63 yards against Oklahoma.

Hits the hole, makes the cut and takes off. Interesting prospect.

Right. A 3-4 DE isn't an edge rusher; the guy who lines up outside him is. Mario Williams was an edge rusher in the 4-3, and Kyle William's was a 3 tech tackle, the natural positions for both. When they switched to the 3-4, Mario was wasted as a DE and couldn't play OLB. Kyle was out of position as a nose tackle. Edge rusher now means a guy who will play DE in 4-3 or OLB in the 3-4. Some guys fit either scheme, some fit only one.

Yes! And pink in October!!!

I've mentioned this before, and we saw it again last night. McD was asked about it agreed - he wants to be strong up the middle. That's at the core of what he wants to do, and Beane is on the same page. Since McD has arrived: Hyde, Poyer, Edmunds, Lotulelei, Oliver, Morse, Allen. McBeane's highest draft picks and biggest contracts have gone right up the middle.

Yeah. I knew next to nothing about the top rated guys. I'd see Oliver's name mentioned, with people saying no way he'd last to 9, and maybe Beane would trade up for him. So some Metcalf talk, and all the Hock talk. So when the pick came and they took Oliver, at least I knew his name. A half hour later I came here to see what people were saying, scrolled through the thread about the first pick, and I was amazed at the consistent, almost unanimous enthusiasm for the pick. There's an interesting mathematical rule that says if you take a lot of people, none of whom have any special information or knowledge, and ask them to estimate the number of gumballs in a large jar, they're individual guess are all over the place. Some way too high, some way to low. But apparently if you average all the guesses, the average comes out really close to the actual number. That is, the collected wisdom of a lot of people usually is pretty much on the money. If that rule applies here, it seems like the Bills got a good one. I, for one, think it's really cool to have gotten a guy who could be as important to the long-term history of the franchise as the guy who's shoes he's been drafted to fill. I'd like to have back-to-back all-star QBs, like the Colts did, but if I can't get QBs, back-to-back all-star D tackles is pretty nice.