Shaw66

Well, a couple of things. It's not getting thrown to the curb. More likely he'd be traded. His problem may be that the Bills need to keep guys with better upside. I think someone made a good point: what about Jones is special? Not his speed, his catch radius, not his hands, and no not his route running. I think he runs decent routes, but so do a lot of them. And not his blocking, either. Sills and Williams could both be better possession receivers, and maybe better blockers. Again, no one is flat-out predicting it WILL happen; its just that it COULD happen.

The coaches never talk about how good any of the other teams are. For them, it's all about getting their team to be as good as it can be. I found myself getting excited about the 2019 Bills the other day, and then I remembered just how hard it is to win ANY game in the NFL. These are great, evenly matched teams, and they're all desperate to win. Daboll could be no better this season than last. The new Oline coach may be a failure. There's a new special teams coach, but that doesn't mean they'll be better. The defense might regress. Maybe Edmunds doesn't step up to another level of play. Most importantly, maybe Allen is a perpetual 54% completion guy, no matter what the Bills try to get him to do. If that alone turns out to be true, the Bills will have trouble winning 8 games. What do I think is going to happen? I think the offensive line is going to be better by a wide margin. Morse will take over the leadership of the line, Ford will handle business on the right side, and two veteran guards will step in play reasonably well. The result is that McCoy/Gore/Singletary will exceed 1500 yards. Allen will be over 60% and the Bills will win 9 or more. But people who aren't Bills fans and aren't paying attention still haven't realized that Allen is better than all the pre-draft analysis that said he was a project who only can throw deep. They still don't understand that the Bills acquired an entirely new, experienced offensive line. And they still think McCoy and Gore are way over the hill. I think half way into the season they'll be scratching their heads wondering where the Bills came from.

I used to listen to him a lot, and I don't know about open disdain for him. However, he has been very clear that he gets paid based on how many ears are listening and how many eyes are watching. So your list explains exactly why he says nice things about the Jets and not about the Bills.

Fair enough. I was just piling onto the same reaction others had.

Maybe in your world. The Bills under McBeane are about EVERY DETAIL. One of the details clearly is professional dress at certain times. It might be that professional dress is required whenever Mr. Pegula will be in the room, because he seems always to be in a coat and tie. Whatever the reason, the Bills are ALL ABOUT getting everything right, including how they present to the outside world. It's pretty impressive, whether you think a coat and tie is necessary or not. Friend of mine told me a story. His son got a speeding ticket and asked his father to go with him. Father insisted on a coat and tie. When they got to court, they were the only ones in business dress, and lot of people were in t-shirts, jeans or shorts. The judge said something like "when you come to this courtroom, you're speaking to the State, and you should show the Court and the State the respect it deserves. So if you aren't dressed properly, go home and get yourself cleaned up." When the son's case came up, the judge dismissed the charge, no penalty. It makes a difference.

Is OC offensive coordinator? Maybe Daboll is on the block!

I noticed, didn't think much about it. But you're right. That organization is top down doing it the way it's supposed to be done. I get the sense that the Pegulas realized, probably after Rex, that they want everything done professionally. Everything. And that's what McBeane were selling. And now on to my other reactions: At some point, not in the video but in the quotes from Beane from the Athletic, he said something like when it comes down to football skills and measureables, Beane's going with football skills. Singletary is a football player, and Beane just wasn't too concerned about his 40 times or anything else. I thought that was interesting. We've seen it a lot. Sills, Sweeney, others in this draft and before. Beane wants football smarts. In his post draft speech, he said they got guys who filled needs. He was talking particularly, I think, about the first two picks. Huh? He's sworn up and down that he's a BPA guy, then he says the Bills filled needs. I think what he means is that he won't take a guy who isn't at the top of his board just to fill a need. But when the guy at the top of his board fills a need, he'll trade up to get him. It happened at the top of the second round and again at the bottom of the third round. It's obvious how well prepared they are. They know what they're doing as the situations arise, not just sitting there with looks of surprise on their faces. Beane is so comfortable all the time. McD too. Pretty clear that both of them spent years preparing themselves to do these jobs. They thought about it, studied, even practiced. Beane's a light year ahead of Whaley, who clearly was learning on the job. For that matter, McD was better prepared to be a head coach than Rex. Rex learned from his father, and in those days for a lot of coaches it was just seat of the pants stuff. No longer. I also found it interesting how much McD was just a spectator. This was Beane's show; McD had input, just like the scouts had input, but once the board was set and the Commish said the 2019 draft was open, it was Beane and Beane alone running the show. I'd love to see the stuff we didn't see, the times they expressed disappointment that one guy or another came off the board. Great video.

It isn't absurd. Williams and Sills both had multiple NFL teams who wanted them. Neither is likely to last on the practice squad, if they show anything in camp. The question isn't whether either is better than Zay now. The question is whether they look like they will be better in November or December, as they gain experience. They will improve more in the upcoming six months than Zay will. If they look like they will be better than Zay over time, Zay is in trouble. Someone will give Buffalo a sixth or seventh round pick for him.

Alpha - I didn't watch the video, so I don't know. But I DID watch the video that was up a few weeks ago - something like 8 minutes of Bills dropsfrom 2018, and I was amazed at how many of them were Zay's. My recollection was that he had been better, but he had a lot of balls that were easy catches that he dropped, and he had several more that were reasonable NFL catches that he dropped. He has to get better, or he's toast. And I know you're saying this (you've told us about 100 times) but the more I think about this the more I think he actually could get cut.

Sills changes the picture, in my opinion. If he shows promise, the Bill's won't want to risk putting him on the practice squad. Of, as most seem to think, Beasley, Brown and Foster are the top three, Zay's upside has to be better than Williams or Sills. It might be hard for Zay to show more upside than either.

Alpha I give you credit. When you started this thread, my first reaction was no way. After a while I thought, well, maybe. Mow I think there's a good chance Zay will be gone. Beasley, Brown, Foster, Roberts, Williams, Sills could easily push Zay out. Sills? The problem the Bill's have with Sills is that if he shows real promise, they won't be able to hide him on the practice squad. The problem Zay has is that Sills and William's are his competition, and both of them are fierce competitors. Zay has to step up his game immediately, because those two will be pedal to the metal immediately. Great prediction.

Please. Never accuse me of being sober.

This thread is excellent evidence as to how difficult it is to run a pro football team. The reality is that running any large organization is a complex endeavor and cannot be reduced to a simple conclusion about anyone any aspect of the operation of the team. The notion that the team was or was not in cap hell when Beane took over makes for an an interesting discussion, but the team's cap position at any given time is only one of many aspects of the success of the franchise. Other aspects include the quality of the coaching, the quality of the players, the conference within which you are playing, the division within which you are playing and a myriad of other factors that affect the outcomes of each game and each season. These discussions often break down into name calling and battering of one another in an effort to establish one position or another about one of those aspects of the operation of a pro football team. The more dug in people get on their positions about these this particular issue, the more difficult it is for them to see and evaluate the team as a whole. It is much like McDermott's approach to team football. He has said repeatedly that the game is a complementary game; it's one where the offense, defense and special teams work togethe; it's one where teams within the team such as the offensive line team, the defensive line team, the defensive backfield team all work together. Beane and his team had many decisions to make when they took over and from day-to-day moving forward. That is the nature of the business. He has admitted frequently that not all of those decisions can be made correctly, and he has made his share of mistakes, just he has anyone else would do in that job. One major decision was the choice to gut the team and throw the team into a terrifically adverse cap situation for a relatively short period of time. That was a decision. It may have worked well it; may have worked poorly. Some other decision may have worked better and it may have worked worse. The important point is not whether the that particular decision was the best decision that could have been made. The important point is whether the decisions that he makes collectively add up to the success they are seeking to the success they are seeking to achieve. Many of us think that Beane is on a good path toward success. Whether he is will be much clearer to all of us in November.

Got it. They had a choice. You can argue about whether it would have been possible to build a winner just moving forward with what McD inherited. I really dont know. On another point, good discussion about how significant second I. total yards really is. I like the points about DVOA and passer rating. Those are two gos measures of how effective the D really was. My impression was that the offense struggled so that badly that the defense simply couldn't win games alone. A decent offense with that defense would have won a.bumch of games. O line has to perform this season. And Allen. And Daboll.

Beane's been clear. They had a choice. They didn't have the players they wanted. They could have moved them over a few years and managed the cap less drastically or they could clean house and live with the cap mess. They decided that the fastest way to get where they want to be was clean house. Given that, I don't think the notion of "getting a pass" applies. Like lots of new GMs and coaches, they wanted different players. The only question of relevance is whether they're getting the job done. It looks to me like they are. The particular question here is whether getting Star and at his price was a good move. I don't.know, and I don't trust anyone's conclusions here about that. I'd like to know what McB thinks about that question.

You make the point that I was thinking about. I don't think we have any idea what it was that caused McDermott and Beane to want to bring Star to the Bills. I firmly believe it was some combination of his play, and his attitude and his leadership skills. McDermott has said often that it is important to have a leader in every room. That means he wanted to have a leader in the defensive line room, and he knew that Kyle Williams would be leaving after 2018. I think Beane signed Star in order to fill the leadership void in the defensive line room. He also signed him because they knew about his work ethic and his general leadership skills. I think any effort to evaluate whether Star is worth what he's being paid has to be made in light of what it was that McDermott and Beane wanted, and I don't think we really understand that fully. As others have said, even his play on the field is tough to evaluate. If his job is to force double teams and simply to occupy blockers, I doubt any of us has studied his play that carefully to know how effective he has been. And M D platoons d linemen, so expecting much more tha. 50% of the snaps isn't reasonable. I think Beane knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that check.

I think people seriously misperceive who Shady is as a human being. First, I don't know of any evidence that he is too concerned about his numbers. None. He played all the way through last season and never complaimed. Never. He played his heart out, every game. No whining, no sulking. No refusing to go back on the field. No dissing the linemen n or the n play calling. Not once. Off the field? Yes, he has some of the hood in him. Since he's been in Buffalo he's had a few things go on that were embarrassing. So, fine, he grew up in a different culture, and he has trouble leaving that behind. T that doesnt mean around the team he has a bad attitude. Yes, thats true with some guys from the hood. Not Shady. He's a leader. Remember when Sammy was hurt in training camp and not practicing? Shady could have said "he should get out here with the rest of us." Instead, he said something like "keep the Ferrari in the garage." That was a team oriented guy speaking. Shady was the star and could have thought of himself as the Ferrari, but no. Sammy was the the guy who was projected to make a difference, and Shady didn't hide from it. Finally, you gotta listen to McBeane. Both during and after the season they were asked whether it was time to move on from Shady, bench him, cut him, whatever. Every time they're asked that question they are completely clear that Shady is going nowhere. And they seem surprised that anyone would think that Shady shouldn't be on the team. After the draft, someone asked about having too many running backs and how someone would have to go, maybe Shady. Beane said, without any qualification, "LeSean is the starter." Don't kid yourself. Shady is a leader, and he has exactly the attitude McB want. Watkins didn't. Gone. Dareus didn't. Gone. If Shady didnt, he'd be gone too.

Thanks for these tidbits. I enjoy having some understanding of what these guys are thinking, and you're giving us all a chance to understand. Great stuff. As I listen to McBeane, I continue to be impressed. They can't be right about every judgment about players, but they have a good reason for every decision they make. And their reasons are all driven by a consistent and thoughtful team-building process. Thanks again.

Man, there's the process on display. Read those quotes. McDermott wants guys obsessed with winning and doing everything they can to win. Everything, even if it's being a hoorah guy. When McDermott has a room full of those guys, McDermott thinks he can accomplish anything, because the effort turns into a 100% team effort. No one cares about himself. This isn't a mindset that McDermott wants to teach. It's a mindset he wants hard wired into the guys he has on his team. He may need to remind them from time to time that that's who they are, but he doesn't want a guy he has to convince about this philosophy. Dawkins has it. They wanted Allen because he has it. Oliver has it. Beasley has it. Shady and Gore have it. Hyde has it. Kyle had it. Ford and Knox and Sills have it. You can hear it in how they talk about who they and what they do. McBeane are building a team of guys who all say the same thing: "Let's get to work."

That's really interesting. Hadn't made the connection. Offensive line - nasty. LInebackers - speed. There is a mold.

I will add to that. No. McBeane are not about making a wild dash to win a Super Bowl followed by a decline. They're building to get on top and stay on top. You can't stay on top mortgaging your future.

It feels off to me, too. I didn't follow him, and maybe his production fell off because of injury, but Ziggy gave me the impression that he was something of a one year wonder. It seems every year or two there's an edge rusher who comes I to the league and explodes with double digit sacks, then he fades. Teams figure out how to block him, or they attack weaknesses in his game, and he becomes ordinary. Ziggy gives me that impression, and add to that the injury concern. I have doubts that he is a multi-year solution. So, yeah, I can see why teams don't want to give him a multi-year deal.

Others have said that the free agent s I goings were mostly marginal players, backups, etc. That's generally true. But I saw an interesting thing a month ago from some coach or GM who said that lineman coming out of college are generally unable to play immediately 9in the NFL. There are exceptions, of course, but they generally don't come with the skills they need, and the only way to get the skills is to play. He said there's so little contact now in training camp and practice that linemen kneed a lot of time on the field in games to learn. Like a few years. So that's something that is promising about the Bills' free agent linrmen. They've been in the league a few years and they've gotten a reasonable amount of playing time. So the chances are that some of them are ready to blossom. For example, just as one scenario Dawson takes a step forward at LT, Morse is what we expect in the center, two free agents with experience take guard spots. That just leaves one youngster, and he will get the benefit of veterans all around him. That collected experience should contribute to the improvement this year.

Very difficult to build a top 5 line from scratch in one year. I think your expectations are a bit high. Is it possible? Yes. There's leadership with Morse. There's good experience with all the free agents. So the ingredients are there. But it's a new line coach. And the linemen have no experience together. It may take more than a year to blend into a god unit. More likely scenario is that the 2020 line 8s good, with 3 or 4 ca%yours from 2019 and 1 or 2 upgrades. Thats when you'll have a combination of talent and experience together. I'm expecting a better line in 2019 but not top 5.

You may be right. I get why you think so. And I agree; I can see how he might succeed. However, 32 teams didn't draft him. That means something. It means he is low probability. Some part of his physical package is just too limited to make him likely to succeed. If he makes it, and I really hope he does, it will be because he has great hands and is so smart that he makes plays just by mastering details. Not saying he is Steve Largent, but Largent succeeded in that way. He just did everything exactly the way he was supposed to. He is in some ways the perfect McDermott player. A guy who desperately wants to succeed, a smart guy, a guy with something to prove. He said in his call with the Bills when they signed him that he wouldn't let the Bills down. McD loves that attitude. He is the kind of a guy who if he simply isnt good enough to make it, he reinvents himself as the best long snapper in the history of the game. Great story.