Shaw66

Late 70s through the mid-80s. I was living in Connecticut and the Bills games were rarely on TV. There was no way to see them, and there was limited reporting about them on local TV and in the local newspapers. I was newly married, raising young kids, starting a career, and working on an old house. Before then, from 1960, I was all in. As the Bills began building a powerhouse team in the mid- to late-80s, they started showing up on TV more often, and my sons became Bills fans. Have been full bore ever since.

This rings true. Nice analysis of what Oliver does and doesn't do. I'm reminded that McDermott once said pressures are more important than sacks. What you describe is a guy who gets pressures but not sacks. For better or worse, that makes him a McDermott kind of guy.

I definitely do not study DTs, or even focus on Oliver's play all that much. But I was surprised last to see a quote last season from a head coach of a Bills' opponent who said that the offensive coordinator has to have a plan for handling Oliver on every play. The implication was that if you leave Oliver one-on-one more than occasionally, he will wreck the game. And beyond that, I think this discussion about Oliver under-performing as compared to other DTs, there are two important considerations: 1. The D-line rotation. Oliver doesn't get as many snaps as most other DTs, and that's not because he couldn't handle more - it's because as a matter of philosophy, McDermott won't give him more. And it isn't just snaps; it's also that where Oliver lines up from play to play changes, and who's beside him changes, too. 2. McDermott's team-approach. Everyone is expected to be multiple, to be able to play different styles from game to game and even from play to play. There are no one-trick ponies on the Bills; each player has to be good at a lot of different skills that his position requires. They have to be jackknives. That's who the Bills draft, over and over, because that's what they want. So, I would guess that the Bills are happy with Oliver, because he's great at what they want him to do, and they don't care that he isn't great in the way the fans want him to be. That is, the Bills don't mind that they don't have a single guy on the D line who is a true game wrecker.

You can feel that way if you want, but I think you're wrong. Are Tom Cruise, Johnny Depp, Ed Norton, and Bradley Cooper failures because they never won an Oscar? McDermott has coached 8 seasons. If he goes 16 more seasons on the same pace as he's on now, and never wins a Super Bowl, he'll be fifth on the all-time win list. That's failure? Dan Marino was a failure?

You want to trade Beane's magic for magic beans.

I've always heard that phrase the other way around - perfect is the enemy of good, meaning at some point the right thing to do is accept the good and move on. But it's also used the way you've used it. I wasn't suggesting that anyone should settle for as much as the Bills have accomplished and no more. I really was commenting on the fact that the Bills have an outstanding football team - it isn't easy to build a consensus top-three team, and that's what the Bills have done. And now, let's close the deal.

This is good. The Bills have brought in a lot of guys with potential to be upgrades over last year. And have guys developing. They ALL be stars, but neither will ALL of them bust. If Palmer and Moore BOTH emerge, watch out. But even if only one has a nice season, Bills are in good shape. If Hairston shines with Benford, it's a huge upgrade. Bills have other guys who can play the corner if Max grows more slowly. As I said before, some D lineman will emerge. Many fans outside Buffalo don't understand. They see no splash free agents or draftees, and they think there's nothing good going on.

The Bills brought in so much DL help that's SOMEONE is going to make a splash. This defense is going to be a lot better.

Fans are the best!

There's nothing to talk about. We've had all of the conversations about receivers, about Cook, about the defense, about not winning the Super Bowl, about just about everything. Since there's nothing left to talk about, I find myself thinking about how amazingly good this football team has gotten. I say it often; when McDermott and Beane got here, they said they were going to build a team that keeps getting better and better, and that is what they've done. I've been thinking since I saw the thread about the Bills being the favorite, at least clearly in the top three, to make it to the Super Bowl. We can argue about whether we agree or not, but the reality is that among the bookmakers and bettors, there is a clear consensus that the Bills are at the very top of the league. And it's a bigger consensus than it was a year ago and two years ago. Granted, everyone thought the Bills would have a down season last year, but their success last season has convinced many people outside of western New York that the Bills were genuinely good last season and only got better in the off-season. And it's not simply because the Bills have Allen and because he's just that good. Put aside that Beane did a masterful job identifying Allen as the talent he is and then managing the draft to be able to get him; people around the country are recognizing that the other 21 starters, and the bench, make this a seriously good football team. And the Bills are set up to get better in the 2026 season, with the QB under contract, the salary cap getting back in order, and the opportunity to add more young talent in the draft. Everyone is looking at the Bills as a model franchise. Everyone thinks it's when, not if, the Bills win the Lombardi. Hats off to McDermott and Beane. Now, '25, '26 '27, is the time complete the climb to the top.

Why is that optimistic? Two teams make the AFC championship game, and the Bills are almost certainly among the top four contenders to make it. That means the Bills have a 50-50 chance of making it to that game. Since 50-50 is the realistic outcome of ANY game, the Bills making the championship game is realistic.

I think realistic is AFC championship game.

Mcfadden's on 2nd avenue in New York City is where you go to watch the Bills. If it's anything like it used to be, you'd better get there early. The place absolutely rocks.

Well, I certainly will chime in. This place is great. Well, it's pretty dull right now in this dead period. These doldrums seem to get worse every year. But I'll echo what others have said. I come here daily, because if there's any Bills news, I know it will be here. I come here daily to see what people are talking about, and sometimes to join in. I come here daily to find funny little nuggets that people post here. It is the place for all things Bills. BBMB was better in only one respect, which was volume of posts. They had more active members, so the discussions often were livelier, and new threads showed up more often. However, they had more posters because the Bills wouldn't let the moderators ban the bad actors and control the board in other ways, and that meant there were more rogue posters who messed up threads, started arguments, etc. Here, everyone knows that if you don't behave you're gone, and therefore everyone behaves. The knowledge and the memory of the posters here is fabulous. I must have seen but have no recollection of that drive against the Dolphins with Kelly diving into the end zone as time expired. How great was that? So, thanks to SDS and to all those who keep this place running. I love it.

I like to imagine if I had Josh. I also like to imagine if I had Hailee.

Wow. My player is Roger Kochman. Sensational rookie running back in 1963, until he absolutely tore up his knee. I couldn't remember if I'd posted about Kochman in this thread, so I searched for him. I haven't. Search yourself, and look at all the threads that 's Kochman's been mentioned in. Threads about obscure players, threads about really ugly injuries, threads about one-year wonders, all kinds of threads where Kochman turns up. I remember him because I met him a few months after his injury. He was dating the sister of a friend of mine, and I was visiting my friend while Kochman was hanging with his girlfriend. His knee was all wrapped in gauze. He kept it elevated. He said if he kept his foot on the floor, after a while his knee would start bleeding! In those days, if you had major knee surgery, your career almost certainly was over. Kochman already knew he was done.

Great stuff in here about Stevie and Fitz. I found Stevie maddening. Too inconsistent. But that's probably unfair; as someone said, three 1000-yard seasons on those teams is a nice accomplishment. He was amazing coming off the line. One of his great moves caused one of the great disastrous plays in Bills history: The Chiefs 100-yard pick six thrown by Jeff Tuel. The play was a quick slant to the receiver flanked right. Whoever the receiver was got a good inside release and had the defender on his back. Tuel read it and threw. However, Stevie was in the slot. His route was to take a jab step right and then go left to the back of the end zone, dragging the defender with him. Stevie put this monster fake on his man, and the defender backpedaled so hard that he fell down when Stevie cut left. The defender got up just as Tuel released the ball and was right in the line of the throw for an easy interception. Instead of leading 17-3 in the third quarter, the Bills were tied at 10. People blamed Tuel, but it wasn't his fault. His read was the inside release of the intended receiver. If he saw it, he was supposed to throw. See it, throw it. That's what he did. Stevie wasn't supposed to leave his defender in the slot, but you couldn't call it Stevie's fault. He just ran the route the way he ran all his routes, with great separation off the line. It just happened that this time the move was so good, his man fell down. Faked him out of his shoes, so to speak. Stevie was wide open in the back of the end zone by the time his man got up, but Tuel never looked at him. Tuel wasn't supposed to look at him if his primary receiver was open, which he was. Unhappy outcome all around.

The other thing that nobody has mentioned in this thread is that there is a lot of preparation during the week for the more spontaneous playmaking that spins off these systems. I think particularly the system the Bills run. When you have a guy like Allen or Mahomes who is talented and who has played in the same system for multiple years, during the week the coaches are talking to him and he's talking to the coaches about opportunities they see on the field. When the defense is doing one thing or another they will agree that the quarterback has the option to modify what's going on the field to take advantage of opportunities. The run pass option is the formal embodiment of that kind of play, where the quarterback more or less on his own simply chooses to take a different opportunity in the play, even though the running back and the entire offensive line is executing something different. Something different. Occasionally after games, the more experienced quarterbacks, including Manning and Brady, will talk about the fact that a play that worked during the game was actually a wrinkle that they had talked about during the week of practice, a wrinkle that the quarterback was free to take advantage of without anyone having actually called for that play. I remember having heard a a Patriots linebacker describe one important play that the defense made in a significant game during their run. It was something like a third and seven and they needed a stop. This guy and one other defender, after the defensive play was called, acknowledged that the better way to run the play would be to switch assignments. They did it, and they got the stop. The interviewer said to the guy, "I bet Belichick was pissed off about that." The guy responded, "Not at all, that's the kind of thing that Belichick expects players to be able to do."

Ah, got it. I recall divided opinion about Lance, not exactly like Allen, but similar boom-or-bust potential. That's what you're saying. My feeling is that a guy like Lance might hold on in the same way Tyrod has held on. Keep working and playing, getting buy on some special talent, and then see how far he develops. Tyrod was similar to Smith in that way, but didn't go as far as Smith. I think a Smith-like late career blossoming is possible with Lance.

Excellent. Thanks.

I don't know if that's true. Bills passed on him to take EJ, and Smith fell to #39 in the draft. I don't recall many people thinking he was a monster. Maybe Jets fans, because they can talk themselves into almost anything, but most Bills fans were lukewarm at best about Manuel and glad the Bills didn't take Smith. .

Probably not a bust yet. I could see him as Geno Smith-type who hangs around until he finds the right situation.

I remember, too. Every Jets game, the first thing I wanted to know was, "Is Mosley playing?" Sports can be so cruel to individuals. When he was healthy, Mosley looked like a truly special player. Couldn't stay healthy.

I wouldn't call him a legit starter. I think if we could talk frankly, Beane would say they were satisfied with what they got in Motor and disappointed that they didn't get more from Moss.

Singletary was a legit starter. 25th, 25th, 16th, 26th in the league in rushing on a team (1) with mediocre run blocking, (2) where the QB was gaining 600+ yards a year on the ground and (3) that featured the pass once they got Diggs. The Bills may have hoped for more, but he gave what they expected to get. Moss, they missed on.