Shaw66

The voice of reason. I agree. You really have to wait and see. However, I'm recalling the thread last year about whether the bills would have a receiver go over a thousand yards, and we could have the same thread again this year. Five guys with 800 yd each wouldn't be a bad thing! All that has to happen is four or five guys have to do their share. Beane in McDermott obviously still are looking for the best four or five.

Thanks for this. Really good stuff. It makes me think of something I've been noticing lately. The Bills have a really good, solid roster. They have no holes. They have some positions they'd like to improve, for sure, but no holes. Beane and McDermott have built the team like this, year after year, and (but for the disruption of last season's housecleaning) it's gotten to the point where there is nothing to be truly concerned about. And that means that when the draft comes, when you have the DT group you have, you can be more comfortable betting on the upside guys like Sanders and Jackson and Walker bring. Having a strong roster to begin frees you a little in the draft to go after the sleeper special player.

Thank for this. Great summary of what makes him interesting. Sort of great upside with a floor that means he's probably still going to be useful. Appreciate it.

That makes sense, but I'm interested in Jackson. He didn't fall because he might be a problem like Sanders might, right?

Sorry, I haven't read this thread, and I'm sure what that some part or all of the answer is in it somewhere, but can someone explain this to me: I know everyone says that Landon Jackson was a steal or a great value in the third round, but that just means that people saying that think he should have been drafted higher. I generally don't buy that argument, because the professional GMs obviously thought other players were greater values. Was Sherdur Sanders a steal for the Browns, or is a fifth round grade actually a measure of how good he is? So, what I want to know is why people think Jackson is so good. If Bosa weren't in Buffalo, would Jackson take Epenesa's starting role? I understand that he's tall and athletic. What else is it about him that makes everyone so excited? Did he dominate SEC offensive tackles?

This is really ridiculous and contrary to everything they always say. Beane's JOB is to get better at every position, all the time. He certainly does not say to himself, "well we're good enough, so I won't look for others." It's completely obvious that the Bills make very careful decisions about how they want to play the game, on offense and on defense, and then they acquire players who can play the way the Bills want. And those decisions are based in part on how they want to spend their money and their draft capital. In this case, the Bills clearly do not think it's necessary to spend a lot of money on wideouts to play the way they want to play. They didn't spend a lot of money or draft capital this season, just like they didn't draft a running back or pay Cook what he wants. They don't think they need to spend money to get the kind of players they want.

The Cooper I saw last season was no more of a vertical threat than the other guys they were putting on the field.

Yes, except it might not all come together this season. It might, if they hit on some of these rookies. It's possible that these guys they've acquired will emerge as quality starters this season, but many of them may be a year away. Which in my mind is okay - they're always building for continuous improvement. And given their draft position, they simply aren't likely to find an instant defensive stud in the draft. There are, in my mind, two players who have the potential to cause a major turnaround on the defense: Hairston and Bosa. If Hairston can start and Bosa can be Bosa, the defense will be a lot better.

But this is exactly why I keep saying what I've been saying. McDermott and Beane disagree with you, completely. It's totally obvious. If they thought the role of a vertical receiver who can get deep is as important as you say, they would have acquired a guy or guys to fill that role. When they have a need, they fill it, and for two seasons (since Diggs left) they have done nothing to fill that role. If they cared about that role, they would have taken Worthy when they had him sitting there for them. Instead, they passed on Worthy and took Coleman. McBeane's view of the offense is that the guy you're talking about is not necessary. They don't see a great need for that guy. He isn't critical to how they intend to run their offense. It couldn't be any clearer. Two years in a row, no meaningful effort to get the guy you think is essential. I just googled 2024 explosive plays and found a chart that I can't copy. It's here: https://steelersdepot.com/2025/01/2024-regular-season-turnover-and-explosive-play-data/ What does it say? It says the Bills were seventh in the league in explosive plays. So, that would make me wonder how much better the Bills need to get in the big-play department, and how much better it's actually possible to get. Ravens 49ers Eagles Lions Bucs and Packers were better. Bills were also fourth or fifth WORST in explosive plays allowed. (Eagles were the worst!) So, that would make me wonder that if explosive plays are important, which would suggest having a burner to get deep is important, how much capital would I spend to get better at receiver to improve my offensive explosive play stat compared to how much capital I would spend to improve my defensive explosive play stat. Then I look at the draft, and - wonder of wonders - the Bills spent their draft capital on defense. This whole receiver discussion should start and end with one sentence: The people who are running the Bills (and who are winning a lot of games) don't think they need a receiver who can get open 30+ yards downfield by outrunning the defenders. That's it. It isn't important to them. (Why not? Because guys with decent speed, like Shakir and Samuel and Palmer can get open downfield using schemes that leave holes they can attack.)

Good deal for Kittle. If I were the niners, I wouldn't be chasing after him.

I've read very little of this thread, and I haven't heard much of the Beane interview. All I listened to was when he first came on the air and ripped into them about their (and other people's) constant yammering about what Beane hasn't done about the wideout position. I have a couple of thoughts. First, I think it was bad form for Beane to do that, especially right off the bat. What I liked about it was that he didn't seem over-sensitive - it's not like his feelings were hurt. It was more like a barroom discussion where he came back strong in response to something stupid he heard. Still, there's a PR portion of his job, and embarrassing media guys in your market is something you should do only when they're really out of control, like Jerry Sullivan was several years ago. Beane should have kept quiet. Having said that, I'm glad he spoke up for another reason, and that's because I and other people around here need more support in the argument about wide receiver that keeps raging here. People who think the Bills need a classic, burner, number 1 receiver simply are not paying attention. The Bills do not agree with you. They don't. They know what kind of personnel they need and want at wide out for the game they want to play. They collected a roomful of those players last season, they like that room, and they only tweaked it this year with the addition of Palmer. How do I know they like what they have? Duh! - When they don't like what they have, they add players. Like they did on the d line this draft and in free agency. Why don't they want the receiver so many people are begging for? I'd guess there are plenty of reasons. 1. They like the philosophy of spreading the ball around. They want to attack all over the field, in all different kinds of ways, and they don't want to have a player who demands the ball in order to make the offense work. 2. They don't want another prima donna, and star wideouts are prima donnas more often than most other positions. 3. They want guys who are good and aggressive blockers, and some, many, of the best receivers are not enthusiastic blockers. 4. They are ahead of the curve. A few months ago there was a thread here about how receivers are overpriced and their value is falling. It's the same phenomenon that I took so much heat for when I said running backs are a dime a dozen. The fact is that there are a lot of skilled receivers out there, so many that you can get them pretty cheaply. It's much better to spend your money on other positions and run a team concept in your receiver room, which is what the Bills are doing. For example, because they are dedicated to their rotation on the defensive line, the Bills essentially need 8 or 10 starter-caliber defensive linemen. To have 8 or 10 starters, you have to dedicate resources - money and picks - to that position. If you're going to do that, you need to underspend someplace else. The Bills think their team approach in the receiver room allows them to have a good passing game without spending outrageous dollars on the talent. People will argue that the best receivers are so special, they make plays, etc. Well, yeah, and I get it, but they have a tendency to become the go-to guy in big play situations. That means that on third and twelve, he's always your best option, and the defense knows that, and the defense has schemed for that. The Bills play a different way. With their collection of decent speed, different sized, good blocking, reliable receivers, on third and twelve the Bills say to the defense, "Cover all of them." The defense doesn't even know WHICH receivers are going to be on the field until the Bills put their package on the field 25 seconds before the snap. All the defense knows is that it's going to be some assortment of one or two running backs, one or two or no tight ends, and a collection of wideouts, all of whom can get deep, all of whom can line up anywhere, all of whom can catch, and all of whom can block. It's completely obvious that that is how the Bills want to play. McDermott's philosophy is that he wants his team to be able to play as many different ways as they possibly can. He wants players who can execute everything anyone has ever done successfully on a football field. In order to do that, he needs versatile players, not great players with limited skills. That's why all the defensive linemen they get have speed and quickness. Why did it take so long for them to go after a 340-pound defensive tackle? Because they've been waiting for one with foot speed and quickness. They believe they can teach a big guy with foot speed how to anchor the center of the line, but they can't teach a big guy who anchors naturally to run fast. In the receiver room, it's pretty clear. Samuel, Shakir, Coleman. They're not identical, they all have strengths that make them a bit different from the others, but what they share is versatility and commitment to team play. Palmer looks like another one. They seem to be hoping they can grow Shavers into that sort of role, . or Prather - they both are in the Gabriel Davis mold, a different kind of versatile wideout. I'm not saying Beane and McDermott are right when they take this approach. I actually don't know. However, I understand their approach, and where I agree with Beane in his rant is that it seems pretty silly for people to insist that the Bills should take a different approach when this approach obviously has been successful. The Bills score a lot of points and win a lot of games. It is very difficult to convince me or McBeane that they would score more or win more with a stud receiver who cost the Bills a lot of draft capital or cap room.

I think this analysis is exactly right. I'm one who's been calling for a difference maker. The Bills didn't have an opportunity to move up into the top 10 or so in the first round, where difference makers can be found, so they have to place a bet here or there. Someone mentioned Spencer Brown. Brown wasn't the reach Walker is, but he was a reach. The Bills bet he could make the big leap from nowheresville U to the NFL. It wasn't always pretty, but betting on Brown has paid off. Frankly, when I started reading about this guy, I didn't think Spencer Brown. I thought Jason Peters. A raw physical freak learning to play against the best in the world. Remember that Peters was a tight end, and the Bills tried him on kickoff coverage because of his mobility. It took a few years, but that raw talent, once focused, became a Hall of Fame player.

Gunner - First, thanks for doing all this. It really is fabulous. I've gotten to the point where you are my online source for the draft! Great job. Second, I know I'm a broken record, but I think we all have to put ourselves in the heads of Beane and McDermott. I know we all have trouble seeing and understanding it but really, could it be any more clear that Beane and McDermott don't see the need for the wideout so many of us, including you, think is obvious? For the second year in a row, the Bills have done essentially nothing to get a quality receiver with top-end speed. Last year they traded away from one (Worthy) to take Coleman. This year, nothing. I'm the same as everyone else. Last night, in the thread evaluating this year's draft, I didn't give Beane an A because, as much as I liked the draft, there was no offensive skill play in rounds one through four. Unless the Bills plan to convert Hairston to wideout, there will be no burner catching passes for the Bills again this season.

Not to pick on you particularly, but I dismiss comments like this regularly. I've always doubted that we know better than the coaches and GM, and it was completely confirmed a couple of years ago, after Bernard's rookie season, when all through the draft and into the summer many of us, including me, were screaming, "WE NEED A MIDDLE LINEBACKER." Then the season starter and we all started to see what Bernard actually could do. McBeane knew they didn't need a linebacker. Yes, for depth, maybe. The fact that no safety was targeted either in free agency or the draft tells me that McDermott has the safeties he wants. I don't know what the plan is, and I don't like Rapp and Hamlin as the starters, but for sure there is a plan. Bishop's coming off his rookie season, and maybe McDermott knows already that Bishop will start. I've always thought Taron Johnson could start back there - maybe the Bills drafted his replacement at nickel over the past few days. I don't know who the Bills' safeties will be, but at this point in McDermott's coaching tenure, I have complete confidence that barring injuries, the Bills have the safeties they want. And in response to anyone who is about to say it, the same is true for wideout. Yes, we may look at the receiver room and see what we think is a gaping hole. McBeane disagree with us (and the perceived hole wasn't a problem last season). If you're an NFL player of the caliber of Jackson, Ingram, and Codrington, your agent always has feelers out. Each year in May, guys like that never know where they're going to be in November.

In the modern media world, Bills had no choice. When something happens like happened with Araiza, you have to bail out to avoid the daily media distraction. Ravens have a Hall of Fame place kicker who is the subject of allegations he denies. Just like Araiza. Ravens drafted a place kicker. For now, Tucker's on the team, but the Ravens will move on quickly if his story has legs.

A- I'm editing my post and moving my grade to A-. People have the endless debate about whether to draft Best Player Available or Need. Beane has always said he's a BPA guy, and I believe him. He tends to trade up when the BPA also is a need. I think the draft fell to Beane perfectly, with BPAs sitting high on his board who also were need picks. I like the like the guys they got. It seems they got good value and solid athletic ability in the mold they're looking for. And I think the Bills like the guys they got. For it to be an A from me, they would have gotten an offensive skill player in second, third, or fourth. A credible receiver who might challenge for a spot. Prather seems like a project, if they can keep him on the practice squad. Doubtful he gets ahead of Shavers in the project category, and Shavers has a tough road to make the 53. Still, I'm happy. And, Beane has been masterful since the playoff loss. Extending guys who needed to be extended, really solid talent, adding some quality free agent talent, with the potential for a big win with Bosa and with guys who will fit in. And now this draft. It's really an impressive job that he's done.

I think your caution makes a lot of sense. Not all of these guys are likely to make it. It's more probable that one or two of these guys flop, so right now the depth is more perceived than real. And, as you say, some will need time to develop. Few will start out of gate - maybe Hairston if he's really smart and a quick learner. Maybe one defensive lineman will be a regular in the rotation, possibly two. What would be nice would be by the end of the regular season to be getting reasonable participation in the defense by four of them. That would be great, because it would mean there's some seriously improved talent on the field. The thing that intrigues me the most is the point that Dawg made - that Hairston could be an amazing player, and he could succeed as a rookie. Most season there's a rookie corner sensation or two in the league, and Hairston has the skill set to be one. Some of the other guys may project to be solid starters, and maybe a little more. Hairston could be a guy who allows McDermott a lot more creativity on the defense. If Hairston is that guy, and makes it as an impact player as a rookie, then the Bills have gotten the player they needed - a difference make on the defense.

Right. I knew there was someone else. As much as many of us, including me, say we want the Bills to take a classic one-tech monster of a man, it's completely clear that that is not how McBeane intend for the this team to play. It's all about tough-minded athletic guys. They 8 or 10 of them to rotate, mix and match. If that's the model, well, we have to live with it. And if that's the model, it looks like this year they've loaded up, better than ever, with guys who fit the mold. I'm not so good evaluating football talent. I'm pretty good at pornography.

I hear you, but in another sense, it just is very difficult to quantify great athleticism. I was in a discussion a couple of years ago about what it means to be "smooth" and it's not easy to describe. On top of that, we're all familiar with the notion that players playing speed is often different from their time to speed in the combine or other similar environments. The reality is that at the end of the day some players play beyond their statistical measures, and other players don't play up to them. In every case, it's necessary just to wait and see what they do when they get on the field.

We can imagine a truly dominant defense, but I don't think that's likely. I don't think a defense can be really dominant when the dline is built for speed and versatility. However, I think last season the defense was good enough to get the Bills where they went, and this season it's the same guys with some improvements: 1. Cornerback should be better, and possibly much better. 2. Bosa, Ogunjobi, and the two draft picks yesterday should improve the d line. 3. Rapp, Bishop, Hamlin all have another season under their belts. We should see a tougher defense all around. And if one or two of the rookies is really good early, it could be really good.

I think the pros - the GMs and the coaches - have learned over the years to be careful about what they say. They choose their words carefully. I think a 23-year-old guy who's never been through this process before is likely to hear things he wants to hear and isn't accustomed to listening as carefully to the words as the GM or coach chose them.

Yes, I expect them to burn some of those late rounders to make little moves to grab guys they like. A receiver makes sense.

I think that if we could ask Beane, he would say that the Bills' objective is to have eight or ten defensive linemen, ALL of whom would start on most other teams. I think they really think they have eight or ten starters who share the job. That's what their objective is. They want to come at the offensive line with waves of talent. I can't explain it other than that.

I can't compare players, but I do know that one coach who played the Bills last year said that they set up their offensive scheme by first planning how they can contain Oliver. That's not a bad thing.

It's becoming more clear as each season goes by that McDermott wants quickness and versatility, and he believes that he can get those smaller guys to rise to the challenge on running downs. I think it's McDermott's wrestling mentality. I think his belief is that it's tougher to find big guys with the quickness and versatility he wants, than it is to find smaller quick guys who are tough enough to win against big power lines. I have trouble seeing how his view actually is a better approach to defensive line plane, but McDermott has reasons that I'm sure at least make sense. It's almost as though the plan is to fill the tackle room with 3Ts and have them compete. The two winners make the team as 3Ts, the next two guys get the 1T spots and agree to play the position as well as they can. I don't know.