Shaw66

Oh, great. I trust your judgment, so I'm way less than excited about this one. Still, I gotta believe he's better than dreadful. Bills must see something there, some potential. Can he return kicks?

Thanks for this; it follows on what BeckWater said. Everyone makes mistakes. It's amazing that with all the work the GMs and their staff do, they still miss on plenty of players. From our perspective, it seems easy, but in truth it really is more art than science. And there's one related thought about GM performance in the draft. People are after Beane because he hasn't hit on any real game changer other than Allen. (As an aside, it's important to remember the magnificent job Beane did trading up and up to get to the place he needed to be to have a shot at Allen. That alone was masterful, and then to have been so right about Allen - amazing.) But as others have noted, you aren't finding game changers drafting 30th every year. Once in a while there's a game changer there, but it's an accident when you hit one. All you can do is keep drafting the Rousseau's and the Kincaids and hope that you get lucky and some guy turns into a HOF talent that 20 GMs missed on.

Quoting you only to say I agree completely with this. I like his mid- to late-round work and what he does in free agency. I think this free-agency period is a good example. Nice, solid work. Cap management also has been solid. Some argued that the major cuts in his second year, the cuts that put the Bills in serious cap-hell, weren't necessary, but at least there was some logic to what he did that season, and what he did since that restart has been excellent. And one final point - his roster-building has to be considered in light of his desire to give McDermott the kind of players McDermott wants. Beane's done that exceptionally well (except for Elam).

I haven't read this thread, at least not very much. From the standpoint of March 2025, this was a good deal for the Bills. Elam was going nowhere in the organization, and getting anything for him rather than having him occupy a roster spot is a good thing. (And as an aside, Jerry Jones might be the only GM in the league who would be willing to pay anything for Elam.) From the standpoint of Elam as a first-round draft pick, he's about as big a busted pick as is possible. My view is that a late-first round pick needs to be a starter by his second season. It may very from position to position (a first-round running back has to be getting a lot of touches as a rookie or he's probably a mistake), but at most positions, if the guy isn't starting by his second season, something is wrong. Elam essentially never sniffed starting, unless he was more or less the only choice. He's been discussed before. A guy with cover skills who hadn't shown a lot of the DB skills that McDermott values - playing complex defenses, including a variety of zone schemes, and an effective and aggressive tackler in the running game. It is unquestionable that Beane and his staff knew these things about him, because all of the public scouting reports at the time said exactly that. I'm assuming the Bills interviewed him before the draft, and they probably interviewed some of his coaches, and somehow they believed the Elam just needed to be taught and coached. They made a colossally bad judgment of who Elam is and what he could become. I like Beane, and my gut says he does a good job. But my own keys to whether the GM is a keeper focus on three things: 1. Did they hire the right coach? 2. Did they find the right QB? 3. Did they get starters with their first- and second-round picks? Beane never was tested on 1., got 2. right, and has underperformed on 3. Obviously, Elam lowers his grade on the third point, big-time (but it's sort of offset by the Josh-Allen homerun). Rousseau's a solid starter, Kincaid has underperformed, Oliver is a solid starter, Coleman's too early to tell. Beyond those three major categories, he seems to do a good job in the later rounds. Cook and Torrence are nice second-round gets, and Beane's done nicely in the mid- and late-rounds. How big a mistake was Elam? Well, just imagine what could have been done instead drafting Elam. Take the picks they used to get him, and trade them for a first round pick in the draft the following year. The Bills would have had two first-round picks - maybe they could have packaged them to move up. Maybe they could have gotten another quality starter. Maybe, maybe, maybe. First-round picks are opportunities, and Elam was complete missed opportunity. In free agency, Beane has made few major moves except for Miller, but as he's often said, free-agency is for filling holes, not for bringing in talent. Talent comes in the draft. And one reason the Bills seem to have little cap room every year is that, consistent with their philosophy, they spend their money to keep their talent, not to acquire new talent. How the Bills do in 2025 will depend a lot on Beane. In particular, the Bills could be much better than 2024 if Kincaid, Coleman, and Bishop become valuable and effective starters, which none of them were in 2024. If Bishop is who they hoped, he'll anchor the pass defense with Rapp or Forrest. If Bosa is who we hope, a consistent pass rushing edge, the Bills can make the rest of the defense work. And if Beane can add a solid starter, somewhere, anywhere in the lineup, with the 2025 first round pick, the Bills will be loaded. (Yeah, yeah, there's still Benford and Cook, but there'll be solutions. I think the Bills keep both.) Bottom line on Elam and Beane: A blown first-round pick really is a black mark on any GM's resume, and it's a black mark on Beane's. But everyone makes mistakes; Elam was one of his biggest.

Yes, but more than spaghetti. They have two guys with the potential to be a solid pair or better. They will be pleased but not surprised if the pasta sticks.

It's sort of like the way it works is Beane and McDermott keep throwing guys out there who have the potential to do what McDermott wants, and they will keep doing it until they find guys who can do it. That's what happened with Hyde and Poyer and that's what they've tried with Rapp and that's now what they're trying with Forrest and Bishop. That's two decent safeties, and maybe more.

Exactly.

Good stuff, Fan. Write on the money. And right on q, the bills signed the defensive tackle you were talking about. Bean has often said that free agency is for plugging holes and the draft is for acquiring talent, and that is exactly what we're seeing again this year.

No poor tacklers need apply.

Seems like every year there are two or three corners who remain on the market longer than I would expect.

I didn't know it was Carmello. He was pretty good. Who were the other two?

I found this very interesting on a lot of fronts. Essay follows. I didn't hear the McDermott or Beane post-season press conferences, but I understand from threads here that one or both commented that Keon didn't come back from his injury with the attitude that he needed to be an impact player. I heard Keon saying sort of the same thing, except that the way he presented it sounded like he learned the lesson quickly. I gather McBeane said he didn't learn the lesson until the season ended and they told him he needed to get his back on straight. I don't hold it against Keon for putting a more positive spin on the situation while talking to a public audience. It highlights one of the problems from going from college to the pros. If you're Keon Coleman and you get injured in college, regardless of how the team may have adjusted while you're out, you're so good that when you come back, the team immediately adjusts back to making you the key player. Why? Because you're so good compared to the competition that going back to what you do is almost always better than however the team adjusted. In the pros, it doesn't work that way unless you're LaMarr Chase or Justin Jefferson or one or two others. Most of the rest of the receivers in the pros were stars in college, but in the pros injured guys have to earn their way into the lineup, every week. Why? Because the adjusted lineup is usually just as good as the lineup when they were in it, and there's no reason to switch back just because they're available again. Especially when, as Keon said, you're on a good team. Keon didn't understand that when he was coming back. He had this inflated of view of himself that was reinforced because he had had a couple of good games. He thought he'd earned an automatic reentry into the lineup because he was headed toward a 1000 yard-season. When he didn't get back into the rotation, apparently instead of doubling down to do whatever he could to force his way into the lineup, he stalled. We hope he learned that lesson. There are a lot of interesting things about this situation. One is that he said his goals are yards, receptions, TDs and the Super Bowl. He won't be all that he can be for the Bills until he forgets the yards, receptions, TD part. All that matters is winning, and that means that individual stats don't matter. Period. I'd guess that if you asked Shakir how he'd feel about starting, having season stats of zero catches for zero yards and zero TDs and winning a Super Bowl ring, he would say without hesitation, "sign me up." He'd say that because he understands that if he's good enough to start, then whatever he's doing is contributing to the team's success. Keon needs to get there. Another interesting thing is how this demonstrates the in-season effectiveness of McDermott's philosophy. When you play the game without stars, when you learn to win without stars, then you can survive injuries much more easily. Keon Coleman gets injured, and within a week the offense has adjusted with other non-stars and keeps producing without him. Not so good in the post-season, because teams are good at managing the injuries of their top players and making it likely that their stars will be in the lineup in the playoffs. That means the Bills are playing against a talent differential in the playoffs, something we've seen. It also demonstrates that players have to keep improving. Keon needed, while he was recovering from his injury and when he came back, to be focused on doing whatever was necessary to get back into the lineup, not to be focused on whatever he was doing six weeks earlier or what he wanted to accomplish six weeks from now. All the time, continuous improvement, as McDermott would say. That's what I would guess McDermott thinks Keon lost when he got injured. That's what Keon meant when he said, "be where your feet are." His feet are here, now, and all that matters is what he is doing here and now to be the player the team needs. I heard JJ Reddick say that a vet told him after his rookie season in the NBA that he needed to spend the off-season learning to do something to improve his game that he can't do now, and that he needed to do that every off-season if he wanted to stay in the league. Keon can be a JJ Reddick type player - excellent role-playing starter, but to be that player he needs to keep getting better. He seems to have lost sight of that after he got injured. This situation also makes it clear what McBeane are thinking when they say they want competitors, serious, fierce competitors. Competitors play, in practice and in games, like each play is the most important play in the world. And that's what I found most disappointing about Keon, all season long. He may be able to outjump defenders to make the catch, but I didn't see him outfight many defenders. If he had been outfighting defenders for the ball when he came back from his injury, he would have seen more playing time. Keon is a thoughtful guy. I hope he will take a big step forward as the result of this experience.

Oh, man, out of the BLUE!!! Great job!

I don't know the guy, but everyone knows the Bills need pass rush. They must see opportunities to use him to create mismatches across the line.

I don't know Palmer, but from what I've read here, it sounds like he's likely to stick and fit in well with the philosophy the Bills ran last season in the passing game. Sounds like he may be an upgrade. I hear what you're saying about a true difference maker at receiver - I've talked here often about the need for a few difference makers, guys who make plays when you really need them. Actually, I think the Bills have plenty of them, just not stud difference makers. The reason the offense was so good was precisely because at different times, different guys made a difference. Cook, Johnson, Davis in the backfield, and Cooper, Hollins, Shakir, Coleman all made some big plays (and we're hoping Kicaid will) and the offense scored a lot. What you mean is a stud guy who seems to make the plays at the biggest moments. The plays we expected Diggs to make, the plays we expected Miller to make. I'm not so sure that stud guy is so important. I think he absolutely is necessary on defense. Milano kind of was that guy, but not since his injury. Miller was supposed to be. Oliver and Rousseau are solid difference makers, but haven't elevated their game to stud level. I think the Bills need one of those guys on defense. But on offense, the passing game is a team concept. The Bills' approach is to have several guys on the field who challenge you in the passing game, every play. And they keep changing which guys and which combinations are on the field, and they keep tinkering with and evolving scheme, the whole point of which is to create momentary advantages that non-stud difference makers can take advantage of. If the coaches believe in that approach, if they thing it gives them an edge, then McBeane aren't going to be spending big dollars to get a stud. That is, in this passing scheme, the added value of a stud may not be worth the cost to get him.

I think your observations are good. I think that Beane's done a good job with the money he has to spend on d line. He needs 8-10 decent linemen to play McD's rotation. He can't afford to buy both depth and talent. On top of that,McD demands versatility. So, in the first round you get Rousseaus and Olivers, not boom or bust talents. Given those constraints, I think Beane has done well

Well, first, I think we have to realize these are 25 year-old guys who often don't really know what they're saying or what they want. They think the world revolves around social media, so they go on there and say things, simply because they aren't happy they don't have a deal. Second, some guys clearly do chase the championships or a better place to play. Von Miller, for example. I'm sure Mixon was glad to go from the Bengals to the Texans. The running back went back to the Chiefs. Hyde could have gone somewhere. He only wanted one team. It happens. It's probably the minority who truly make money secondary, but there are those guys. Your point is what? That it was state and county money? The state very much wanted to keep the Bills, and the County, too.

Taxpayers part of the bill for stadiums because the community wants the team in their city. Buffalo benefits enormously having the Bills. There's no reason Buffalo shouldn't bear some of that cost.

Thanks. I'm not convinced but you make some good points. I'm open to a receiver if there were a good out there. I don't like Metcalf, and I think the Steelers will regret their move.

Hard to feel a lot of urgency when you had a top 10 offense second in scoring. Buy defense.

Hey, gotta say it's pretty incredible you said this BEFORE Josh signed. What an organization!

Oh I don't think that's correct. Elway had no concern for his body at all when it came to running with the football. He had massive collisions with defenders often, and he wasn't sliding to avoid hits or running out of bounds to avoid hits. That made his success late in his career even more incredible. Josh can play to 40 if he wants.

I don't know him. That's high praise.

Fair enough. I said it makes me cautious, not that I'm not listening.

Last guy who came to Buffalo after wanting to leave his first team came from Minnesota. That alone makes me cautious.