Shaw66

I think you're missing the point. If Edmunds is a guy who is " a detriment to his team and targeted by the opposition," I don't think anyone is paying him $13 million a year. That doesn't happen any more. Clowney, who is a better raw talent than Edmunds, only got $12 million when he hit free agency, and he is/was a guy with elite pass-rush talent. That's why I think either (1) you're wrong in your assessment of how good Edmunds is, he's actually worth $13-15, and the Bills might very well pay it, or (2) you're right in your assessment, and he could be had for $7-8 million. If you're right about how good he is, no one is paying $15. Teams wouldn't even pay Clowney $15. Plus, I think you're underestimating McDermott's confidence in the Growth Mindset. McDermott thinks his players, including Edmunds, are going to get better every year. He and Beane only choose players who have a burning desire to improve, and Edmunds is one of those. So I'm sure they are very much of the view that we haven't seen the best of Tremaine Edmunds yet. I'll be amazed if they don't exercise the option and/or extend.

It's a good point that bad contracts are a big obstacle to long-term success. And I clearly don't know what to do about Edmunds. However, I do wonder why you think that Edmunds is going to get a big contract from someone if his game is fundamentally flawed by his processing speed. I mean, maybe you're right - maybe he just can't make on-field decisions as quickly and as accurately as necessary to play the position. But if that's so obvious, why would he get a "big contract"? One thing I learned several years ago, I think when Jairus Byrd's contract was up, was that the agents, the players, and the teams know how much players are worth. It's become even more true over the years. Teams don't overpay for players in free agency like they used to. The Bills knew how much Byrd was worth, and they had the discipline to let someone overpay him if they wanted to. Now, and for the past few years, the Clowneys and Richard Shermans and other guys with big press clippings but less than stellar recent play sit in free agency for weeks or months and eventually sign for not a ton of money. So, I think that one of three things is likely: Edmunds is actually very valuable to this defense (despite the concerns we fans have), and the Bills will exercise the option and/or extend to keep him long-term, not exercise and let him test the market, like Shaq Lawson and Milano, and see what happens, or extend him on more of a prove-it deal, which means the Bills will be looking actively for a replacement. What I don't think is going to happen is that Edmunds is going to get a mega-contract from any other team. If he's worth a mega-contract, the Bills will pay him. If he isn't, no one else will.

Yes, he took advantage of Edmunds, but I don't think it was Edmunds fault. The Chiefs crossed receivers in the zone that Edmunds waited for, and Mahomes waited for Edmunds to cover one of them. When Edmunds committed, Mahomes threw the other way. That's a scheme problem, not an Edmunds problem. One play was very clear in the replays - Kelce was crossing right to left and Edmunds had him. Mahomes broke right, outside the pocket as if to take off running. Edmunds followed Mahomes, which opened a passing lane to Kelce. Mahomes completed the pass. If Edmunds had stayed with Kelce, Mahomes was on his way up the field. Scheme, plus a QB who can execute it.

I agree. It's a constant chess game with the best QBs, and KC and Mahomes clearly won the chess game in the Championship game. Now, it's still true that when McD and Frazier figure out the next moves, Edmunds has to be able to make them, and that remains to be seen. And there's another piece to this, that others have talked about. McD is very clear that his D requires a lot of pressure on the QB from the front four. McD doesn't want to be blitzing, because he wants Milano and Edmunds covering all the space they do. That's why Gunner's point about Oliver and Epenesa and Philips is important. There's three high picks on the defensive line that really need to show more than we've seen. So far as I was concerned, the biggest difference between the AFC Championship game and the Super Bowl was Tampa's ferocious pass rush, pass rush that game from the front four. Pressure on great QBs is the only solution, and it has to be pressure generated without blitzing all the time. Bado, he was a lot better in year 2. Clearly better. But I agree about play making. He's been athletic enough to get his hands on the ball, but not athletic enough to get possession. It's consistent with what I said about him a couple minutes ago - he's really good at being in the area, but he isn't as good at actually closing the deal. Still, my guess is that when you add up all the pluses and minuses, he's a top 10 MLB - in the top third in the league, and you don't let that go lightly.

My pet peeve: Draft position is irrelevant once you hit the field. Where Edmunds was drafted has nothing to do with whether the Bills keep him. It's all about how he contributes to the team, how he fits the defense, whether he can be replaced, etc. Kyle Williams didn't start because he was outplaying a 5th round pick, and Aaron Maybin didn't get cut because he underplayed a #9 overall. You play or don't play if you're good enough or not, regardless of where you're drafted. Edmunds future has nothing to do with where he was picked. I continue to think that we don't completely understand how McDermott values Edmunds in the defense. I suspect, but I don't know, that Edmunds' mobility in pass defense is worth a lot more to McD than it is to the rest of us. I think McD expects Edmunds to continue to learn the things that he needs to learn. It's the old adage about you can't teach speed. Or height. There just aren't a whole of MLBs out there who combine Edmunds' size and speed, and that is, I think, worth a lot to McD.

This is a really good point. Beane's drafting is on the line here - there's a lot of big draft capital invested in the defense, and it needs to perform better than it has. As for Edmunds, I'm still an Edmunds supporter, for several reasons. I agree with some of the complaints about him. My biggest complaint is that he isn't as physical as the MLB should be. It's the single biggest thing that makes him different from Keuchly, whom I consider to be the ideal MLB. Keuchly is a solid, sure tackler; Edmunds still plays like he's done his job so long as he's in the place where he's supposed to be. I don't agree so much about "instincts" and similar comments that suggest that he's often in the wrong place. If he's in the wrong place often, how can he possibly be accumulating the tackle stats he has? If he's in the wrong place more often than other MLBs, then if he corrected that flaw, he would have tackle stats that would be truly mind-bending. He's in a lot of tackles, which is what he's supposed to be. I criticized him a lot in his rookie about hitting the wrong gap. I think he's improved tremendously in that respect. He now understands his role, and reads his gaps much better. Whether he has "instincts," I don't know, but he's smart and dedicated, and year after year he will improve in that category. People complain about his getting "beat" often in pass coverage. In the Championship game, KC clearly took advantage of the Bills defensive scheme, which expects Edmunds to cover a lot of ground. Mahomes just waited for Edmunds to commit to one area, and then he threw to another. It wasn't Edmunds making bad decisions - it was Mahomes responding to Edmunds' decision. That's a scheme problem, not Edmunds problem. Plus, we only see the plays when Edmunds gets beat. We don't see the plays where Edmunds presence, where his speed and length, cause the QB to go elsewhere with the ball. That's a huge impact on the defense that is not reflected at all in the stats. I think what the Bills have is a guy who right now is better than the average NFL MLB, and in some ways much better, because no other MLB impacts the passing offense the way he does. Statistically, he's better than average in tackles. He's young and continuing to learn and to grow. The question is, as it always is, can the Bills do better with someone else? The answer is that finding someone better is not going to be easy. The notion that Preston Brown was somehow better is laughable - he was a serious liability in the passing game. You can't have the best player in the league at every position; having an above-average MLB who likely will continue to improve is a good thing and something not to be discarded lightly. I wouldn't go looking for Edmunds' replacement - if one came along, sure, I'd take him, but for now, I keep Edmunds and I exercise the 5th year option. Then I see what market is like when he becomes eligible for free agency. I'll have Allen's deal done by then, and I'll know more Edmunds.

Right, wrong forum.

You were intending to be charitable with the donuts anyway; maybe would have been best just to give the guy a donut.

Again, its picky, but what I think he meant is that he will trade up for need. He's always going to take the BPA, but if he has a need he will trade up to get a BPA who fits a need. He traded up for Ford.

Thanks to you and Widenine. Helpful responses.

When did he say he drafted for need? I don't recall that. He traded up for need to get Allen, but in the space he traded into he took the BPA. I know that's a silly little distinction, but it actually makes some sense. He was going to take BPA if he stayed at 12, but he moved up to take a BPA he needed. Then he did it again - traded up to take the BPA, Edmunds. Where did he say he went need over BPA?

That was fun! Billy Shaw leading OJ, baby! That was a much more violent era. Whew, the hitting, especially after the guy was down. And the receivers were getting slaughtered.

It's a good question, and the answer must be a combination of what many have said: 1. They're counting on Star. He'll be motivated, for sure, because he knows that his absence created perhaps the Bills' most glaring weakness. 2. Philips should improve (or, as someone suggested, he could be history). 3. Beane drafts strictly BPA in the early rounds, BPA at positions of need in the later rounds. If a stout DT isn't the BPA in round or two, then I expect Beane will draft one in the later rounds. 4. There still may be a free agent addition, or even a trade. In any case, there's going to be more talent in camp than what's currently on the roster.

Yeah, and his diet sucks. He eats anything.

Cant see him claiming a spot on the roster. He's not replacing Diggs, Beasley, Sanders, McKenzie, or Davis.

You can argue about whether they're doing the right thing, but there's no arguing that McBeane do what they say they will do. They've said they want to keep their players and build through the draft. That's what they're doing.

I'm with you until you get to the contract part. I thought they both played hard, did their jobs. They seemed to be good teammates. Not signing them was a good decision in both cases. Byrd wanted too much money; Gilmore wasn't the right fit. McDermott's defense isn't predicated on having a shut-down corner; it's predicated on having a scheme corner, a guy with the high-end physical ability who understands the scheme well. White is a better scheme corner than Gilmore can cover the elite receiver better than White, but unlike Gilmore, you almost never see White looking around as if to say "I thought YOU had that guy." Gilmore gets beat by misplaying the defensive scheme; White doesn't. McDermott wasn't going to pay premium dollars to get a corner who doesn't play the scheme.

Good stuff. Morse is on notice too. Bates is getting prepped, and Feliciano played well there. Bottom line is that Lamp gives McDermott what he wants - competition.

Amazing how hard these guys work.

The Dolphins losing streak was as bad as the drought. It was horrible.

Raloh wanted Miami but league wanted Buffalo. It was the only franchise left, so he took it.

This made me laugh. I guess it's true that the picks helped in the Diggs trade, but it's not like the Diggs trade wouldn't have happened if the Bills hadn't made the Teller trade. I don't think the Teller trade was a disaster or to use your word, a "fail," but it IS amusing the extent to which people will go to defend Beane. I think Beane has been excellent, but nobody gets them all right. If Beane had a chance to undo that one, I'm sure he would. Mickey Mantle struck out once in a while, and so does Beane.

Thanks for this. I think many people don't see that this philosophy is at the core of the how the Bills operate. The Bills believe their players can learn to play better. They believe that they should have an offense and a defense that is continually evolving, becoming more complex and more nuanced, so it can perform in different ways. And they believe they can make that work because their players can learn to fit themselves into that scheme. So, the Bills look for players who believe in the Growth Mindset, and they ask those players to invest in themselves by committing to get better. They go looking for guys, in the draft and in free agency, who have shown the ability and interest in continual improvement. And this signing also relates to two related points. One is that Beane likes to sign guys who have underperformed coming off their rookie deals. A guy like Lamp, who went high in the second round of the draft, has the physical tools to play the game at a high level, but he underperformed for some reason, so his original team didn't lock him up. The Bills pursue guys like that, telling them to come to Buffalo on a short-term deal and prove to themselves and their coaches that they can learn and grow. And when a guy does show that, the Bills re-sign them, like Feliciano and Williams. The other point here is that offensive linemen in the draft are a crapshoot. I saw something here recently about how many first-round offensive tackles have underperformed. They're a crapshoot because college offenses don't require these guys to learn any offensive line techniques - just stick the guy across from you and stay with him for a one-count, and the play is gone. They aren't pass blocking for 3-4 seconds, and they aren't running complicated running schemes. So, a lot of the offensive linemen who make it in the NFL make it after having bounced around the league for a few years, on practice squads or on the bench, getting a few starts here and there, learning technique, building their bodies to the needs of the league. Then, around year three or four, they emerge as starters. Not everyone, of course, but many of them. Beane clearly would rather get three or four offensive line prospects in their third or fourth or fifth seasons and try them out than burn a number one or two pick on a guy they hope will work out. Clearly, they were high on Ford, but Ford is an example of the problem. Not only has he been hurt; when he has played, he hasn't shown that he is a solid NFL starter. HE simply didn't learn enough playing college football at a high level that translated immediately to the NFL. I think this signing is what we can expect from Beane, year after year. Will he chase a high-end offensive line free agent, and take a tackle in the first round? Yes, maybe, but he's going to have to be really sold on the guy. (It would be interesting to know what Beane thinks about the Morse signing, for example, now that he's a couple seasons into it.) In the meantime, he'll keep on signing five guys who've been around the league for several years, expecting that two of them will stick, and of the two, one will become a keeper. I agree. Players are seeing that Buffalo is a place where they can succeed, and when they succeed they are rewarded with a contract. Williams is one example. Milano is another. And they're seeing that guys like Feliciano, who might have made a few bucks more someplace else, also are staying, because this is a team they want to be with. I've said this before. At the end of his press conference at the end of the season, McDermott said the Bills are a team where players can come to play the best football of their lives. That quote is at the end of the Bills video about the Growth Mindset. McDermott is selling that point, and I think guys like Lamp are buying it.

Thanks for posting this. I learned a lot. These guys seem to think that the outside zone scheme is better suited to the passing game - checks at the line of scrimmage are easier, and the coordination of the line requires less practice time. Moss is, apparently, the better runner in that scheme, although Singletary could learn to be better. Moss is the better pass blocker, and Moss actually could be argued to be the better receiver. These guys point out what I noticed last year, which was that Allen and Singletary had trouble connecting - Allen sometimes was high, Motor wasn't ready, and Motor sometimes just dropped it. All of that points to the Bills leaning more on the outside zone scheme, Moss getting more touches, and perhaps Breida threatening to take snaps from Singletary. But, of course, McD likes to be multiple, and I think he'll be unwilling to give up the pulling-trapping style that Morse and others are suited to. We'll see.

Where do you get that guy? As I said, Fuller may have been the only one available. The Chiefs have one quality deep threat - Hill. The other guy has speed, but isn't a great receiver. McKenzie can do what he can do. There are two reasons the Chiefs offense is more effective than the Bills. One is Kelce. The other is that they have an effective running game. They force the defense to respect the run, especially the speed in their running game. They don't create downfield opportunities by having two great deep threats - they do it with one and with speed. Sanders will give the Bills what the Chiefs have - a great receiving corps that can get deep. What the Bills need is to come up with a better running game