transplantbillsfan

All right, bro. Keep trolling. Clearly that's what you're doing. Have your fun. Argue just to argue. I'd love it if that's all Thurm was doing, but he delusionally believes there's really some significant difference between 1/209, 6/286, 5/268, or 4/259. There's not. Brady is the highest end example I could find of throwing to the deep middle and he doesn't even hit 5% of all his throws. Brady as a benchmark that needs to be met is sheer lunacy.

So you go with Brady for comparison's sake? Brady is the highest of highs... and even he doesn't crack 5% of all of his throws to the deep middle of the field. Yeah, Brady's thrown to the deep middle 14 more times than Taylor on 100 more charted attempts. How about Rivers who's thrown to the deep middle just 5 more times than Taylor on 77 more charted attempts? Or Cousins who's thrown to the deep middle just 4 more times than Taylor on 59 more charted attempts? Or Dak who's thrown to the deep middle just 3 more times than Taylor on 50 more charted attempts? This is just pathetic. I know you disagree with me a lot as a poster so you see my username and, like Pavlov's dog, you're conditioned to disagree. But try taking a moment and accepting reality: NFL QBs overwhelmingly rarely go to the deep middle!!!

Honestly, 3 posts in one page you talk about people beating a dead horse and yet you persist in the very same thread. If posting stats proves nothing, what exactly will prove something? Or even start to prove something? The EYE TEST from ShadyBillsFan? I get that this discussion is stale, but it persists in many ways because of absolute stubbornness. And that stubbornness exists on both sides. But if you're so sick of the conversation, rather than just saying "this conversation is pointless!!!" 3 times on the same page, why not exit a conversation that's gone 25 pages where some evidently feel it's a worthwhile conversation to have

Cut the crap with the deep middle obsession, Thurm. Go look at the passing charts over at NFL Next Gen stats. Anyone can easily see the REALITY that NFL QBs rarely throw to your deep middle 1/3rd of the field. According to NFL Next Gen Stats... Attempts to the DEEP MIDDLE THIRD OF THE FIELD (20+ yards) Tom Brady- 15 out of 309 attempts or 4.8% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season Russell Wilson- 10 out of 303 attempts or 3.3% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season Dak Prescott- 4 out of 259 attempts or 1.5%% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/dak-prescott/PRE285723/season Alex Smith- 9 out of 293 attempts or 3% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/alex-smith/SMI031126/season Big Ben- 11 out of 275 attempts or 4% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/ben-roethlisberger/ROE750381/season Carson Wentz- 10 out of 291 attempts or 3.4% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/carson-wentz/WEN615770/season Kirk Cousins- 5 out of 268 attempts or 1.9% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/kirk-cousins/COU709400/season Philip Rivers-6 out of 286 attempts or 2% of his attempts https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/philip-rivers/RIV651634/season Now, Tyrod has 1 attempt to the deep middle of the field, according to Next Gen Stats, but for some weird reason, whereas all the above QBs have every single game they played charted, Taylor only has 7/8. I don't know why, but they've excluded the Raiders game. That mean's Taylor's percentage of total passes to the deep middle is 0.5%. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tyrod-taylor/TAY764868/season QBs very very rarely throw to the deep middle third that you're so obsessed with talking about. It's an irrelevant discussion that you keep bringing up. No one cares about the deep middle. This idea that good QBs have an almost exactly even division of throws between 1/3rds of the field is utter crap. QBs throw where they're most comfortable. They don't throw everywhere equally and indiscriminately. Stop making stuff up just because it suits your argument. Maybe in the fantasy world you live in QBs divide their deep throws evenly. Reality is this for at least 2 QBs people would consider "great" Tom Brady https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/tom-brady/BRA371156/season Deep (20+ yard) attempts- 44 Attempts to left- 43% of deep throws Attempts to middle- 34% of deep throws Attempts to right- 23% of deep throws Looks like Brady better get crackin on those throws to the right Russell Wilson https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/russell-wilson/WIL777781/season Deep (20+ yard) attempts- 44 Attempts to left- 48% of deep throws Attempts to middle- 24% of deep throws Attempts to right- 28% of deep throws QBs don't divide their throws to the deep portion of the field, at all. If anything, they favor the left side of the field, which is pretty interesting because when you look at Taylor's charts, he favors the right. But all QBs favor different areas of the field and none divide evenly or really even close to evenly considering there's a 20% difference between the GOAT and Wilson in terms of "most favored" and "least favored." Now, that said, the intermediate middle HAS always been an area of concern, and (once again), when you look at Next Gen Stats, Taylor has SERIOUSLY improved on those intermediate middle throws. In another thread, I pointed out that Taylor was 13/16 with 2 TDs and 0 INTs to the intermediate middle portion of the field. That's 7.7% of all his passes in those 7 games charted to the intermediate middle of the field. For comparison, Russell Wilson is 16/25 (8.3% of his 2017 passes) with 2 TDs and 1 Interception. So, yeah, the intermediate middle of the field was a concern for Taylor in 2015, but he seemed to improve a bit in 2016 and even more in 2017. No need to peddle this deep middle thing that's never been part of a legitimate discussion about the intermediate middle. Glad I could help

No ****. So again... what was your point?

Scrambles = positive Sacks = negative What's your point exactly?

Not a Bills fan, eh?

I think this is interesting, because this is what I always used to love. Sunday was NFL day. I loved wasting my day watching football games. I think part of this is just the direction of the world with smartphones and apps and cord cutting and the immediacy of everything destroying patience. The NFL's biggest problem, in my opinion, is that it hasn't found its way into the "cord cutting market." And I'm a guy who still has cable, but truthfully, it's only for sports, particularly the NFL.

Well, you're prepared to criticize him for everything. He's probably responsible for world hunger!!!

Wow. Dumb post. Boo!

Well his overall numbers are good, too. He's 12 in the NFL in Passer Rating and 0.1 behind Russell Wilson at #11. I don't think this is about cherry picking, it's just pointing to something tons of people are critical of when it comes to Taylor and providing evidence to the contrary. Similarly, Taylor has the 7th highest Passer Rating in the NFL on 3rd down and has the 8th highest conversion % on 3rd down passes, despite having the 2nd most 3rd and 8+ yards in the entire NFL, behind only Phillip Rivers. Is that really cherry-picking? Or is it just bringing up a flaw that some posters have been driveling on about forever and pointing out that Taylor's doing better in that respect in 2017? For example, people have been really critical about Taylor throwing the football over the intermediate middle portion of the field. Well, according to NFL's Next Gen Stats, so far in 2017, Taylor's passes to the INTERMEDIATE THIRD of the field look like this: 13/16 (6.8% of his 2017 passes) with 2 TDs and 0 Interceptions. By comparison, Russell Wilson is 16/25 (8.3% of his 2017 passes) with 2 TDs and 1 Interception.

Perception is not always reality

I actually think Taylor's last 3 games have been by far his best 3 game stretch of his career thus far. I don't think we'll pass as much as some believe against the Saints simply because their D is supposed to be weakest vs. the run, but I'm really excited to see what Taylor can do with Benjamin and Clay on the field. And I hope Zay Jones is healthy and good to play because he was finally starting to look the part vs. the Jets.

Could you give those of us who aren't subscribers to the Buffalo News some of the highlights?

Truth: the Bills primarily had MAJOR OL issues!!! https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/11/7/16611976/nfl-week-9-buffalo-bills-offensive-line-problems-a-whole-team-issue-against-the-jets-tyrod-taylor The Jets’ front 7 defenders seemed as if they were on the Bills’ side of the line of scrimmage all game. With their aggressive play, they were able to neutralize the Bills’ offense and win 1-on-1 battles up front.

Very well stated, Shaw.

There might be a little of that, but Ryan's year under Shanahan was head and shoulders better in every statistical category. 1.3% higher completion % than his 2nd best year in 2012, 15 more passing yards per game than his 2nd best year in 2012, 1.4 YPA better than his 2nd best year in his rookie year of 2008, 6 more TDs than his 2nd best year of 2012, a better INT% than his 2nd best year of 2010, Passer Rating of 117.1 compared with his 2nd best year in 2012 of 99.1. It was the perfect storm in 2016 for Ryan's MVP season, and a 2nd year of being comfortable in Shanahan's system was what did it. The step back this year with Shanahan leaving almost certainly would have happened whether the Falcons won the Super Bowl or lost.

Great job summing up my points!

Matt Ryan's last year was an anomaly over the span of his career. It was head and shoulders better than his other years. You think a light just suddenly went on in Ryan's 9th year? Plus, before Shanahan, Ryan had Mularkey, who has been another high level OC in the span of his career. Ryan has always benefitted from a talented play caller.

https://twitter.com/SInow/status/926553585118101504

I'm sorry, do you not expect that people would ever disagree with you? Are you coming on a discussion board to discuss or do you have some fantasy that you're actually standing on a soapbox in the middle of a park and that everyone must listen to you and when people disagree, your autopilot is to be incredibly arrogant and snarky? I still don't think think you got the gist of the thread. I don't think that Taylor is better than all those guys. I think Taylor has the ability to be as good as or as successful as all of the tier 2 guys. He'll never touch tier one.

First of all, much like that standard deviation article from a month or two ago, I think you're really missing the point of the tiers themselves. For example: -Prescott might be losing Elliot for 6 games. I'm surprised it hasn't already happened, but when it does, do you want to bet that Prescott looks worse as a QB? Oh, plus he's had the best OL in the NFL for 2 years. -Carr. See rookie year followed by drafting of Cooper, acquisition of OL and building up what would be one of the best OLs in the NFL and voila!!! -We've seen Andy Dalton without AJ Green and Tyler Eifert. Certainly nothing special. -We saw Goff last year without McVay and Woods and Watkins and Cooper Kupp. He sucked. -Kirk Cousins has worked under some of the more brilliant offensive minds in the NFL since he's started in McVay and last names Gruden and Shanahan. -Jameis Winston?!?! pfffft!!! Taylor's better than him right now for sure. Dude's got all the weapons he could ever ask for and a HC who was an OC who practically turned Matthew Stafford into an MVP and you legitimately think he's better than Taylor? I think you undervalue how much coaches and GMs want to protect the football. -I guess you're just a volume guy if you're putting Rivers up there still, too. Not anymore. That's just a handful I felt like going through right now, might do more tomorrow. But yep, Taylor's like all those guys I just mentioned: right system and/or play caller and/or weapons and/or running game and/or OL, etc. and then you get a Franchise QB

Funny, you seem to be the only guy who assumed I meant every QB who's taken even a single snap in the history of the NFL. Anyway, disregarding your unnecessarily (but expected) snarky response to a pretty straightforward correction, I'm glad we cleared up something everyone else seemed to understand except you. PS: This is an actual question- Are you really a Bills fan, or do you just like to argue so you latched onto one of the most consistent losers in sports so you could argue the "glass is half empty" position incessantly because, well, that's just who you are?

These are reactionary tiers. They are tiers that exist solely "in the moment" as safe picks. Those 3 tiers are what those NFL QBs ultimately are rather than how we judge them. Like with Goff, he'd be in your "too early to tell" category, but the reality is that he just is whatever he is. Rich Gannon was always a talented QB, but he wasn't always throwing to Jerry Rice and Tim Brown. Suddenly, he looked like a Franchise QB. That's why he's tier 2.

Awwwww Thurm I've missed you so much, too!!! I thought it was pretty obvious I meant vast majority of starting QBs in the NFL, but since you're including all those guys with any stats whatsoever, why didn't you include all the trick plays where a non QB threw the ball, too? I'm disappointed. Clearly you don't read what you respond to since I obviously put Fitz and McCown in a separate tier from Ryan. i directly said those 2 specifically were in a separate tier. If you were once someone who taught journalism or was an aspiring journalist yourself, I'm pretty disappointed considering how careless you're becoming. Really, though, I'm sorry that fun effort was wasted So, there are at least 18 guys better than Taylor right now? Who?