oldmanfan

Sweden: 5th highest death rate in the world 2nd to the US in slowing down of death rate since the pandemic hit infection rate climbing again after slowdown in the summer Not completely open in that restrictions on numbers that can group are in place Its citizens voluntarily did things like distanced and quarantined when sick, because unlike the US they are willing to work together Economic impact has been similar to that of other European countries despite not locking down Attempt to get herd immunity; estimated 10% in Sweden have Covid antibody but you need around 70% for herd immunity - how many more will get sick and die as they continue their approach? Deaths affected many elderly in nursing homes, so geezers died which should make you happy Check out the Oct 6th article in Science. Goes into great detail on how infection and mortality rates in Sweden may be underestimated because sick patients weren’t allowed access to hospitals, among other things.

I am one of the older people and I have patients I see every day. I wear a mask to protect them and they wear masks to protect me. I teach college students every week and we do the same for each other. You used the phrase protect a bunch of geezers. I’m sure your parents are happy to be thought of that way.

So old people have no value. That’s nice. Tell you parents or grandparents.

We have to get pressure on Mahomes. Their O line is suspect. And with Tre and Milano back we can hopefully hooks up in the back. Our offense should be able to do well. So no reason to think we can’t, but we’ll need a much better effort than this past Tuesday.

Dude, I have my doctorate, been doing research and clinical work for 40 years, and I think I can be pretty sure I have a firmer grasp of science than you. I am more than capable of formulating opinions without the benefit of Dr. Fauci, although why folks like you continue to ignore the advice of the pre-eminent authority on infectious disease remains insane. Gum or periodontal disease generally comes from poor oral hygiene. Wearing a mask, even if it does hold in bacteria or fungi as you believe, does not mean you cannot brush your teeth and floss. Those are the ways you prevent gingivitis. I would be very interested to know the particular disease thus individual has. I am trying to figure out how a situation such as you think happened would result in a localized gingival issue and not a more systemic issue. They should. I don’t think anyone would argue against better overall health in facing down Covid.

Yeah I actually started as a dental student before switching to grad school. Gum disease is usually due to poor oral hygiene. Not sure how a mask would exacerbate that.

I go to church every week. I agree with peaceful protests and disavow looting and rioting by any group, left or right wing (and there have been both). And I’m sorry for your ex’s hairdresser but as one who teaches anatomy and physiology I am unclear how a mask would cause periodontal disease. Regardless, telling folks they have to wear a mask at work during a pandemic is not a violation of some inherent right, it is a condition of employment. Well stated my friend.

Thank you my friend. Nice to see a voice of reason.

What rights did you give up? Seriously. And what rights is anyone saying you give up permanently? Wearing a mask does not violate your rights any more than having to wear a shirt into a business does. We can assemble now as long as we wear masks and we check the number of people to a reasonable degree. I go to church every week now. Go to work. Go out to eat. As Bills fans we all want the stadium to open again, but is that a right? we had to make some adjustments to be sure but no one has permanently lost their rights under the Constitution.

The focus should on a vaccine. Not arguing that. But developing successful vaccines against corona viruses have nerve been very successful. Hope this time it is, but we should also focus on developing treatment strategies and on keeping the virus from spreading. I increasingly think Covid may wind up like HIV, where through strategies to prevent spread and treatments have rendered it more of a chronic condition if you get it. Look at what you’re saying though. You talk about weathering it in NYS and other areas. How many died? How many have long term effects? The masks stop droplets and help stop aerosols. You can keep saying 2 + 2= 5 and you will still be wrong. The idea of spreading it as rapidly as possible will kill millions. That is immoral. How many people in the US and the world are you Ok with dying? Give me a number.

That study with the 80% is being misconstrued. What it really showed is those in restaurants and bars/coffee shops where you have to take your mask off had higher infection rates. I agree on the NYS data; that has always been puzzling. No. Absolutely no. If what you are saying is to forego masks the infection and mortality rates would skyrocket. You don’t really want that, do you?

I believe the data tells us if we wear masks, all of us, and wear them correctly it will significantly decrease infections.

It is not just a bad flu. The mortality rate is 5-10 times higher, there is no vaccine, and it can be spread by asymptomatic infected persons. Sweden’s trial is proving to be mistaken; their per capita mortality rate is much higher than other European countries. I’ve already addressed your misconceptions about the study you cite. The idea of masks is to hold down spread of droplets by the wearer. That has always been a consistent position. What the CDC Director is saying is that if we ALL wear masks right now it would be more effective than a vaccine. Yoyr approach would kill a lot of people. How many American citizens do you think are expendable? Give me a number. Or maybe the thing to do, since the elderly are more affected, is to pick an age and anyone over that age should just be humanely sacrificed now. What age would you select?

All these are inaccurate and reflect how scientific investigations take place, especially in a situation like Covid. Many are working and studying the virus, data comes in and as that happens recommendations change as well.

They were not lying. At the beginning of the pandemic the concern was being sure health care workers had masks, and they did not have the data as to routes of transmission. As the curve flattened and as the science showed that spread is by droplets and aerosols the CDC and others then recommended mask usage to limit spread. You’re a scientist, you know theories and recommendations change as more data and evidence is gained. And if you go to any good scientific literature data base like PubMed and search for masks and Covid you will find a plethora of studies showing that masks are beneficial in mitigating spread. The data is very solid.

Puts food on the table! Yep. We could all stand to be better with our general health and supporting our native immune systems. I’m as guilty as anyone if not more so!

I think zinc tends to help for many viruses. I take it when I get a cold. Seems to help but it may just be more psychosomatic.

I’m afraid you are likely correct. My guess is Covid may wind up like HIV. Antivirals will be developed and those will make the disease more of a chronic but liveable condition. That and behavioral changes; condom usage for HIV, masks and such for Covid.

My friend, as tragic as the deaths and the economic impact have been, the most damaging long term consequence of this pandemic is the refusal to accept science and medicine by a sizable segment of society. That may inflict damage that cannot be fixed. That could hopefully be due to viral mutations. Yep, our surgeries are minimal. You should see what the thoracic surgeons and orthopedic guys get into! My biggest exposure risk is processing sperm samples. My retirement plan is to go to comedy clubs and tell sperm stories.

I run IVF labs so I wear a mask when we’re doing egg retrievals and such. Masks are worn to protect the patient and the provider. My wearing one makes sure I don’t send droplets into a sterile space. My mask also prevents me from getting a face full of blood if spray occurs.

Your last paragraph is somewhat correct. A vaccine will be the best way to get herd immunity within a given population. Your other premise, inferring that we should just let the virus spread, is both immoral and not effective. Estimates are that at least 60% of the population would have to get Covid for the herd immunity you suggest. Right now it’s I think about 10% and you have over 200k fatalities. In such a scenario you would have millions die. Do you believe that is acceptable public health care policy, that we should allow millions to die? Here is what would likely happen if we just let the virus spread. Hospitals would get over run, health care workers would dwindle, public panic would ensue as death rates go way up, people would shut themselves away in their homes, and we would have a true collapse of the economy and social structure. Viruses don’t hang out and propagate on their own. They require a host and the host’s cells to replicate. Until effective vaccines are available, our best bet is to limit the access of the virus to new hosts, by using mitigating strategies. They aren’t perfect and you are correct that people need to be more cognizant of proper mask usage. But that does not mean they aren’t effective. We know they are. We all have to pull together

You are confusing mitigation and absolute prevention. Fauci and all other responsible scientists changed their positions on masks as the understanding of the science and spread of the virus developed and it became clear masks helped prevent droplet transmission. Likely reasons why they have not completely gotten rid of the virus is that not everyone wears them, some do not wear them correctly, and in crowded places with inadequate ventilation the virus spreads more easily.

This has been covered a number of times. This interview was, I believe, early in the pandemic. At that time the recommendation was for the public to not wear masks because they wanted to ensure an adequate supply of masks for health care facilities as they were hit with patients. As the science and study of the virus and it’s mode of transmission became clearer, the usefulness of masks in helping combat spread became clear. This us how science works and as a scientist for 40 years it really surprises me how many people don’t or won’t understand that process. Take the study you quoted. The main conclusion from the data is that you increase odds of infection in restaurants or bars/coffee shops. Where one removes one’s mask.

This study was what went on in different indoor spots with a limited number of participants. Google studies on masks and Covid and you will find many peer reviewed studies showing how masks help prevent droplet spread.

Because it’s killed over 200k people and rising, and others who have not died will have long term effects. And there are not multiple proven effective treatments.