mjd1001

Why is it serious this time? In just about every aspect of QB play....wins and losses...points scored...QB rating...QBR...just about any metric you want....where he (or the pats) ranked toward the top of the league most of the time..now they are quite a bit down. And if no measurable metrics do it for you (not even wins and losses or points ranking compared to the rest of the league), then the eye test should. I, like many others on this board, typically see 8 or more Pats games a year. It is not even close...this year there are more passes that WR's are reaching for (that didn't happen in the past) or passes that receivers are basically picking up off the turf or even passes that hit the ground before they get there....more of that than I can ever remember with him.

Suffering is what might happen because most of them seem to be in denial that he will ever be bad. My company has one of our main offices outside of Boston, and I have to admit I sometime glance at the comments sections on patfans or boston.com...but most of what I get is from my Boston co-workers. Right now they are 'slightly concerned', but not as much as I would have thought. They want the by-week, but most of them this morning were just saying the pats are still the AFC favorite, and not having the by-week just makes it a little tiny bit tougher for them. They expect Brady to be elite when it counts (playoffs). At our last annual meeting in Foxboro, I asked them how they thought the 'brady era' would end..and the consensus among the pats fans there was he would likely play 2-3 more years...the Pats would be in the mix for Superbowls ever year...and by his last year...2020 or 2021, there might be some 'slight' slippage in his play and that is when he'll choose to retire so he can still go out 'on top'. Maybe that isn't what ever Pats fans thinks...but they guys in our office there who like to speak up about sports...that sure is their opinion.

I still think he looks good, better than average. But, the difference between good and great is he is making those mistakes now more often than he did. The next month or so will be really interesting. If his play doesn't get any better (maybe even gets a tad worse) AND the Pats don't go far in the playoffs because of it....I want to hear what the discussion will be like all summer about what to expect from him next year. I said in another thread today....even if he does come back, I think the division title is open game for the other 3 teams.

I don't know if I'd call it a 'spiral' yet. If they lose either of their last 2 games at home to the Bills or Jets, then maybe I can get to spiral. When I watch the Patriots, it seems pretty apparent to me they are still a good team led by a good QB, but not great anymore. If things fall into place, they are capable of winning any one single game against anyone...I just don't see them winning 2 or 3 games in a row against playoff caliber teams, but they are still 'dangerous'. The good news for everyone but Pats fans is...while Brady may still be good and capable of beating anyone...he is not what he once was. Earlier in the year we debated this...and his supporters said he has been 'declared done' many times in the past and always returned to greatness. But this feels like longest stretch he has had where he hasn't been consistently great. If he comes back next year to play...I see his slide being more apparent. The Bills, Jets, or Dolphins...whichever of those teams that has the best offseason, have a legit threat to win the division in 2019.

I'd still rather see the higher draft pick, if not to get one of the best players...but instead to have the option to trade down and maybe pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd. Those extra picks can go a long way to plugging the OL holes long term. I agree the game/crown sounded loud. I ran to the store to pick up a few things and in the car on the radio, it sounded like a full house. I'm good with Clay and McCoy not on this team next year. I don't hate the guys, but the team is showing it isn't much worse without them.

I'm going to say that is is mostly the issue/fault with the bad offensive line play. However, I also still think the Bills would be good to move on from McCoy. The number of plays this year where he makes a play that another 'average' RB wouldn't...those are a lot less than they were in the past. Next year, when he is a year older...the situation with him isn't going to be better. The bills could keep him around because they will have to much cap room that his contract won't mean much in the grand scheme of things next year. Personally, I'd keep a player like him around if he was a stellar leader/ambassador for the team. But McCoy is someone who tends to duck the press and sometimes avoid being around for tough questions..and his off-the-field activities are questionable. I really would like the Bills to try to find a different #1 back next year...but as things stand now..I'd rather havea one-year-older Ivory as the #2 next year rather than a one-year-older McCoy

I'm not a huge fan of him, but I think how he handles callers is just the way the industry has gone. Every so often when I am in different parts of the country, I'll find a sports talk show host that I like. They bring up a topic...sometimes not even saying their opinion...and then taking calls and talking through all aspects of the callers opinions (no matter how crazy they are). I LIKE that kind of show. HOWEVER, the way WGR is (and more and more of other shows now) is the hosts give your their opinion....and then when callers disagree with them...often like to tell those callers why they are wrong. It isn't very often where the host are open to having their mind changed...or even moderating a 'fair' conversation between competing views. Personally, I like to form my own opinion and view on things....and the way I have my view reinforced is not by people agreeing with me....but instead by people bringing up aspects of the topic that I never thought of. It seems to me most radio shows are not about that anymore. They are about conflict, because I guess conflict gets ratings and gets people to call in more often.

For Allen, accuracy is an issue more than it is for other QB's, but does it have to be the reason he doesn't turn out to be good? Hopefully not. It is possible for a QB to be more accurate as his NFL career goes on (forget college, lets talk NFL). That can be by either throwing more accurate, or by making better reads and throwing to more open receivers. Every QB is different. Ben Rothlisberger has pretty much had the same completion percentage from the beginning of his career to now. Matt Ryan and Andrew Luck started their first few years with quite a bit lower completion percentage than they have now. I don't think Allen needs to be near 70% to be good. With his running ability and tendency to throw downfield, he might be a very good-to-great QB if he can get to and sustain 62% (even with 'bad' throws). The question is, can he get to that point without them turning him into another "captain checkdown"? We all know the problem with cherry-picking stats to make an argument...or comparing one player to another from the past and projecting stats...it normally doesn't work. But with that said...look at Josh Allen's current stats and success to what Eli Manning did in his first year. A LOT is very similar. May not mean anything..but it is interesting.

Which I think is the argument next year for trading down. the OL. It seems to get an above average-to-good OL in free agency, you are going to pay a TON of money. But, OL seems to be the one place you can draft players from the late 1st to the 3rd round and have a decent chance of getting a good one. Is it guaranteed? No. But if you can gain extra picks by trading down...that might be the best/quickest way to rebuild this line. to get 2 or 3 GOOD starters in Free agency is going to be very, VERY hard.

I have nothing to back this up but a feeling...but my impression of Allen is he needs time to have someone sit him down and go over stuff for him to get better. He showed flashes early in the year then got hurt. After a few weeks off he has been better (not a lot, but overall better). I get the feeling he is going to be the exact same QB for the rest of the year as he has been the last few weeks. In the offseason, I expect him to take the next step. He just doesn't seem to have the feel of someone who learns week by week...I get the feeling he learns in 'big chunks' of off time...then he goes full speed but at the same level until his next 'break'.

On WGR this morning, the pregame show..they made a point of saying they think people are too hard on the OL...it seemed the consensus they agreed upon was the OL was SLIGHTLY below average. I disagree with that. I think they are really bad. Not that any team in a league has an OL that blows the other team off the ball (maybe Indy?), but this OL is far from average. On pass protection, half the time they give Allen the 2-3 seconds he needs before he takes off by himself...the other half of the time someone is in his face before he finishes his dropback. And run blocking....they have gone from one of the best to one of the worst. This OL is not slightly below average, they are bad.

I'm glad Gronk and his bad back stumbled at the end of that play. I know you want to get a tall guy out there to defend a pass to the endzone..but I would have stuck with my regular safetys or even a LB instead of putting a valuable TE out there who has a bad back. I HATE that houston lost. If there is anything I want from the end of the regular season, I do NOT want to see the Pats get that first round bye. All year it just seems they do what they need to, or have someone else do JUST ENOUGH to keep them in position for that bye.

I hope when he does come back it is at 100%. If he misses the rest of the season, fine. Just hope this isn't an injury that slows him down a bit long term.

I'm totally fine with trading down. I'll be fine with them standing where they are also. This team has so many holes/needs that trading down will work for me. But, they also have a lot of cap room to fill those holes. I really don't see the need to get upset at either option.

A couple of years ago around the holidays we had a family discussion about NFL uniforms..with the topic being brought up of having NFL teams wear their 'standard' uniforms 8 games a season, and the other 8 games for them to go wild and come up with different and crazy designs or colors for each of them. Pretty much everyone there under 40 was all for the idea...anyone in the discussion over 40 was in the "no" camp to any uniform changes except throwbacks.

Does money alone get the Bills to the playoffs? Not alone What DOES get them into the playoffs is Money to improve the ROSTER + Jets and Dolphins not getting much better + Pats without Brady and Gronk (or a much older/worse Brady and Gronk next year) = good shot at division title

If you are going to use stats to make judgements on how good or bad a player is...at least don't use 1 game to justify your position. Some of the really bad QBs have had games where they have put up ton of numbers..and the greatest QBs ever have had awful games. With Allen look at the trend. it appears he is getting better as the season progresses. Is he a star now? No. Is he a lock to become one? No. The point is...the stats...over the SEASON so far and as a week to week trend show what he probably is...not a bust...but not a guaranteed long term answer.

Agreed. also, I game where "defense mattered" in this way vs dozens and dozens more where the Offense was more important.....not a trend. Just because something happens on a very rare basis doesn't justify its importance.

I'm not sure how much of a step he has or hasn't lost...but he either did lose a step or he isn't the best back for this offense (Ivory might be better) On some of the 3-6 yard runs McCoy has had the last few weeks...he gets through a hole in the line and then when he gets in front of the tackler...say 5 yards away..he does a little dance and then gets tackled and goes down. If that same hole is there...Ivory hits the hole...gets to that same 5 yard distance when approaching the tackler...and runs into him full speed and gets brought down after falling forward for an extra yard or two.

I like seeing the clips of Bills players at Sabres games and Sabres players visiting Orchard park. Does it really mean anything? probably not...but as a fan of both teams it kinda gives you at least a 'sense' of community between the organizations.

Agreed. Right now in his career, I think McCoy can be a good RB as long as he is not a featured back where a team relies on him to carry the load. The Chargers, Stealers, Colts, Bears, Falcons, even the Bucs are teams he could still excel on....but you don't want to rely on him as your centerpiece any longer.

No

I have said this is the beginning of the end for Brady, and if he plays next year he will likely not be good at all. HOWEVER, I never said he was done right now (or earlier this season). He used to be a great/elite QB...now he is just above average to good. A decent team with an above average-to-good QB can certainly beat an average Packers team, a close game against the Bears (in a game the bears actually played better in..thank special teams, not brady, for that win). A home win against the cheifs? Well, that is what you get when you still have a good-but-not-great QB who still has the OCCASIONAL ability to pull out 1 or 2 great games.

I really don't see Gronk coming back next year no matter what. I think Brady WANTS to come back, but it depends on how this year goes. Best chance of him coming back next year is if he stays healthy, plays very well down the stretch, but the Pats lose in the playoffs. He'll want to come back for another shot and he'll think he can carry the team to do that.

I think this is the beginning of the end for Brady for sure. A week off this week, the rest will do him good and help heal some of the aches and pains..so he may come back with 1 or 2 stellar games, but he already is not who he was in the past. You don't just have to look at numbers either, you can see it with your own eyes. I mentioned a week or two ago I thought this time it was real..his downturn. He's throwing less and less deep balls, and they are fluttering more. His short and medium outs, even the ones that are complete, are not on the numbers anymore (half the time the receives are jumping, bending, or reaching back for them in a way they haven't in the past. And while NO QB likes pressure, I think this year is the year I am seeing him throw the ball away or just give up on plays sooner than ever when the rush gets near him, he is even starting to show signs of feeling a 'phantom rush'. All that stuff has been going on for most of the year..its' not just one or two games. So is he "DONE"? not yet...but it is in sight. The Pats still have an above average QB in him that has the ability to pull out a few more 'great' games....but the days of him carrying this team on his back game after game after game are ending very soon.