Mango

Can Mack play OG or OC? Asking for a friend.

Currently making too big of a deal about this. Per the Bengals and Marvin Lewis, "Cordy Glenn is fine". He isn't missing anytime with this. Probably just a tiny ding, and it's preseason, so he was done for the day.

Eric Wood came very shortly after the playoffs, so it wasn't like it smacked us totally in the face, there was plenty of time to redirect the offseason in regards to the C position. Richie was about 3 weeks before the draft, so I will give it "some" credence, but it isn't like we went all the way through the off season and suddenly lost or LG.

If the strength of the OL the past few years has been LT, LG, and C, and we drafted a rookie QB, and have two very inexperienced vets as QB's, why wasn't the right side of the line addressed/upgraded? Regardless of the left side of the line, they knew the position they were going to be at with the QB, and the right side remained exactly the same. It is kind BS to pin this on Incognito and Wood given the lack of other meaningful moves on the OL.

We keep (justly) complaining that the FO totally underestimated how bad this OL would be this year. What are the moves we should have made in FA and the draft to solidify the unit? (outside of Wood and Richie) My thoughts: - Keep Glenn and kick Dawkins to RT - Tyrell Crosby in the 4th instead of Taron Johnson. Can play G and T. - Re-signed Gaines - Retained either Coleman or Johnson for slot CB. Our Secondary is better than current, and OL is upgraded. Starting OL would look something like: LT: Glenn LG: Crosby/Teller/Ducasse/Miller C : Groy (I have faith yesterday wasn't his true form) RG: Miller/Ducasse/Teller/Crosby RT: Dawkins (His projected position)

This is actually a good discusssion, what should we have done to address said needs, especially on OL. Probably kept Glenn, swung Dawkins to RT (where he was projected), also drafted Tyrell Crosby in the 4th instead of Taron Johnson, slightly over valued there, but fills a huge need for us. Offered EJ Gaines an extension and retain Coleman or Johnson. Secondary and OL are both improved. At the time I don't think I really wanted the Schwartz hire to replace Marrone. Looking back on it, I am pretty curious what this team would look like if he were the hire and not Rex. My guess is we would have been a playoff team sooner than 2017. But still in QB purgatory (which we are still in now, until Allen pans out)

I agree with this. I am generally a Whaley supporter about most of his moves. Whaley’s biggest down fall was NEVER being able to hire his own HC to run the pieces he put together. but... Part of his job is to generate trust and buy from the people above him to make those moves. In that regard Beane is far out performing him. Whether Beane is successful in personnel moves remains to be seen. Right now he is losing to Whaley in that regard.

Are you telling me FA signings like Starr, Tolbert, Bodine, Newhouse, Kerley, and Davis aren’t inspiring a whole lot of confidence in the FO?

Fully agreed. This isn’t the 90’s anymore. Teams don’t take that long to turn around these days. If you aren’t difinitevly better after 3 years, you’ve failed IMO. That’s just the NFL in 2018.

Gotta read the thread man. Safety: Whaley QB: Maybe- I was fine with the TT trade. But Allen needs to pan out. LB: Maybe- Edmunds needs to pan out CB: Whaley drafted White, Beane traded Darby. We could have both. But instead have White and Davis. Cap: this is fair, but not until next year.

I would disagree with that, totally. Obviously there is some nuance and explanation to a lot of the moves, but it is not asking too much of your GM, after 15 months, to make a single position or positional group better than what they inherited. Right now we are hoping that the future is better for us with Edmunds and Allen, but those are still question marks. Maybe DE is better with Trent Murphy over Shaq?

sarcasm dude.

Huh...did you follow the thread/quote at all. I was commenting on a guy that said Beane upgraded the secondary. He didn't, at all. That isn't really up for debate, because, well, it is definitely worse. The thread is about what position(s) did Beane upgrade. There may be reasons, like draft capital, and clearing cap space as to why some are not upgraded. What positions do you think are upgraded on the current 2018 roster from the 2016 or 2017 roster?

I thought Milano had a nice game for us yesterday. If there is any bright spots on the defensive side of the ball, I thought he was it.

I read a stat a few months ago (trying to find to confirm), that in the years Whaley was named GM (13-17) he has more starters in the NFL than any GM in the league.

Not to pile on, but White was also not a Beane draft pick. Haha. Too bad EJ Gaines couldn’t stay healthy for us, and we didn’t offer him an extension. I was fine with the Watkins trade for him since we were never going to pay him. A healthy and re-signed Gaines would have been a great Beane move. but I guess that’s too many what if’s...

Beane didn’t bring in Hyde or Poyer, Whaley did. I don’t know why people keep using them as an example, it’s a bad one because the credit goes to the prior regime.

I totally agree with you, my post was totally sarcastic.

The more I spend time with it, the more I agree, CB 2 should be 5 on the list. Maybe higher, and swap with one of the interior OL positions. This isn’t to bash Allen, but that first throw to Clay that bounced off his hands, Clay has to catch that for sure. But as much as Allen’s velocity allows him to squeeze throws into windows, making it hard for DB’s, those types of fastballs are tough for receivers to catch. He’s gotta learn to take a little off some of those throws.

Haven't followed any of the Jags offseason/preseason. I will keep an eye out when the season starts. Just going off of 2017.

I don't totally buy that. Dareus left, we got worse, Jacksonville got better. To me that flat out lazy players generally don't generally create that sort of swing when leaving. I don't see him as a Haynesworth type of guy. Part of your job description as a HC is getting your top athletes to engage at a high and consistent level. Marrone seems to be winning that battle vs. McD in regards to Dareus. I hate saying that because I HATE Doug Marrone. But it is currently the reality of the situation. Marrone last year got more commitment from Dareus than the Bills did, assuming the claims that Dareus is lazy, are true.

Yeah, I understand the reasoning, I just disagree with it. Dareus carries more in dead cap space this year, than he would have on the actual roster. We also could have either straight cut him after this season with ZERO cap implications. We are paying his replacement the same amount we would pay him if he were on the roster, for lesser production.

Between dead cap and Starr's salary, our DT1 is costing this team ~23 mil this year....

Wait, what? Are you saying yesterday was planned, and not only planned, but with a good result?

I very much disagree with the idea that teams largely get better by subtraction of talent. Sure you have your TO's and such. But guys like Darby, Glenn, and Brown don't fit in that category. This was not a team of misfit personalities that Beane inherited. Our defense got worse without Dareus, and Jacksonville got better. Eliminating talent because they "aren't your guys" or "don't fit they system" doesn't really have a long history of success.