BigBuff423

I'll disagree because what you're not stating is the demand of for QBs is higher this year in terms of the number of teams ostensibly searching for their premier QB for the long-term. Cards, Jets, Browns, Denver, Buffalo (of course), not to mention teams that should be planning for the future, ala Giants, Saints, Steelers, and possibly Jags. In years past the number of truly QB needy teams were about 4, this makes concretely 5 and possibly up to 9 if those other teams decide to plan contingencies for the future or move on from their QB, i.e. Jags. That means the price is virtually the same, EXCEPT this year there is a real deep class of QBs so paying to trade UP, doesn't make sense to me. You stay put, and get a guy like Rudolph at 21, when if you take all of these analysts at face value you've got: Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen, Rudolph, and Jackson as all 1st round talents. Now, that's not to say they're all equal, but when your team is experiencing a talent drought and you have a means to replenish it via what is already in your possession (Draft picks), to me it is foolish to trade that away. Also, while I like Rosen the best among all of the QBs, I've been vocal for Rudolph given the Bills Draft position and think that he will be a good to great QB in the NFL and might not cost the Bills any trades to get him. Additionally, I don't think it will be as simple as the Bills 2 first round picks this year as it seems that is what you're implying. I think to get to 2, it would take: 21/22 a player such as Hughes or Glenn, and a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year. Giants are in the driver's seat and field offers from a number of QB needy teams, that are probably willing to offer multiple years of Draft picks....so, to push the Bills to the front of the line, to me this is what it would take. Now, if you're correct and all it took was this year's 2 firsts, then that is faaaaaaaar more amenable to me and I would have much easier time supporting that decision.

The issue to me is exactly what you mentioned: the price. To me, in a Draft that has the depth of really good QBs, you don't trade UP in those Drafts, you stand pat. You trade up in the Winston / Mariota years because it was them and no one else. Add to the fact of guys like Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, Dak Prescott, Nick Foles, and of course Kirk Cousins, and you can see how the value is in the evaluation itself and then with coaching once that QB is on your team. Bills have tremendous amount of needs, keeping all of the Draft picks is really important for this roster and team to make that transition to contender, every year. Also, while this report may be accurate, based on Beane's comments at the Senior Bowl, you'd think that such "love" for a QB at this point is overblown since Beane said he wants to talk to them, interview them, and get a feel for the guy. Also, I'd want to know Rosen LOVES the game more than anything else in his life, except for family, and is willing to do anything and everything to move the universe so that my team wins a Super Bowl (at least one, more would be nice).

I'll take Crowell and Draft a RB - trade Shady....yeah, yeah, I know....but wrong side of 30 and his value is high for trade capital and his money is cost prohibitive for the position I'll take the following: Bodine for Center Whitehead from Lions for OLB Lawson from Lions for CB Bromley from Giants for DT (can't get 3 in the Draft) Richardson or Butler as noted for WR Ellis for DT as well (again, Bills probably need 4 altogether, so that leaves 2 in Draft) Okafor from Saints for DE Re-sign O'Leary as he's a RFA And a Vet QB of some kind - trade Taylor, Shady, Hughes....keep Glenn if his foot is healthy. I would stick him at LG, cut Richie and keep Mills just for backup duty, then Draft a RT, re-instate Miller at RG....I'm also keeping Lawson, I still think his potential is seriously good and maybe with a new training staff they can keep him healthy. The rest is via Draft and under-the-radar FA signings that will provide depth. JMO....hate away.

What I love about this, Mason Rudolph's 2016 is a percentage point less than Mayfield....YET, Rudolph got better in 2017 in terms of production, by a wide margin in yards, TDs, and accuracy (completion percentage in terms of statistically significant as he improved from 63% to 65%), and he gets dumped on by all kinds of people....it's like, pick a lane folks....you can't be this good by various metrics, win the Johnny Unitas award by beating Mayfield in that award category, and still be incapable of being a good NFL QB, at least based on projections and that's all we have right now. So kudos to Mayfield, although I'm not sold on him and I know I'm in the minority, but all of the criticism for Rudolph is unwarranted and exaggerated IMHO. Rudy is going to be a good to great QB in the NFL.

I respect your opinion, but we're just viewing the video differently. I've watched loads of throws he's made - deep throws, deep out throws, over the middle, far hash to sideline throws, and all of them are NFL "good enough". No one is confusing his arm strength with Josh Allen, but even among the elite, Josh's is elite....but Rudy's arm strength is NFL quality. The Combine will show that. He's not going to set the world on fire, but it will get the job done. As for receivers making him look good, to me that's an overplayed narrative. Yes, they do a fantastic job and they certainly get tons of YAC, and they also compete for jump balls. But to attribute the majority of his success to that, is again ignoring what my eyes tell me. I see ball placement in terrific spots, I see receivers able to get YAC because he places the ball that leads the receivers, I see balls dropped in the basket for the receiver to catch, and I see plenty of throws in tight coverage that are on the money, especially in the Red Zone. Now, where I tend to detract from his game are his fumbles and holding the ball the way he does when he starts to get pushed and moving outside the pocket. But watch enough of his video and we can see him stand in the pocket and take hit AND deliver the ball. He is the quintessential pocket passing QB, mobile enough to move around, but not fast and certainly not going to use him in bootlegs that often. So, instead of going back and forth, I think this is the part where we agree to disagree and believe that our eyes are telling us both something very different.

All things considered, to me *this* is the exact type of thing the Combine is good for....when you see the video, you see a well-qualified NFL QB Rookie ready to take the next step...but, can his arm make it? I personally think he can, because plenty of good to great QBs didn't have "the arm" coming into the NFL but were good enough and eventually no one even thought about it once they started producing and winning.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. There are constant views / video of him making easy 50 yard throws...there aren't a many "tight window" throws, but they're there and the fewer amount of them is just based on the Offense he played in....but, to say he has a weak arm, is completely false IMHO.

Kujo, bust (so far), that I"ll give you....as for Ragland, he was drafted for Rex's scheme, so trading him for a 4th was just a necessary business move, but he looks the part so far in KC and he's a 2nd rounder, so you might want to wait on that one....Lawson was a very good run stopper but yes, he's been largely unhealthy but still young and hard to tell what he could become with hopefully the right (new) athletic trainers and with a HC who knows how to use him. As for Zay....c'mon, really? You're throwing the guy under the bus after his Rookie year? He struggled, of course...but then you find out he had a shoulder injury the entire year AND he was a Rookie. Look at the Rookie numbers, without injury mind you, of the top 10 All-Time greats....a couple were staggering and obvious they would be eventual HOFers, i.e. Moss, but others did NOT look like they would amount to much after their first year. Let's at least give him a second season before we're throwing in the towel.

QBs really are so very difficult to project to the NFL...one thing I don't like about most of the QBs except Josh Allen, is they don't play in a Pro Style Offense and for Rudolph that's just par for the course with the rest of the highly regarded QBs. I like Rudolph because only he and Mayfield (out of that projected top 6) check all the Parcells QB evaluation boxes. I like that he started 3 years, and I like all of the other things I mentioned up thread. And you may very well be right about him, I don't think anyone can stand here and say, I'll defend my line to the grave with such certainty because of the fluid nature of the NFL. But, I would take Rudolph over everyone expected to go in the 1st except Rosen, and that to me is based solely on the "potential".....I'm not a Darnold fan for what it would cost to get him and I don't think Mayfield's game translates to the NFL very well - all similarities to Brees notwithstanding - Allen's accuracy is very suspect IMHO and that rarely if ever improves and usually spells doom for QBs going into NFL. If I'm waiting to the 2nd round, I take Mike White.....now, if for some reason Darnold is available at 21 (which we know he won't be, but stranger things have happened) AND the Bills have themselves a bridge Vet for a year or two, then I'm good with it because I DO think Darnold's issues are correctable and his potential is nearly as high as Rosen's....anyways, I like these debates as long as everyone keeps it respectful and we all remind ourselves, we're not employed in the NFL doing these kinds of evaluations, and there's a reason for that....

The take on Rudolph is all over the place....and again, I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but some good evaluators have him as the #1QB in the Draft, others see him as a late Day 2 guy, but I think "most" evaluators have him as a mid 1st to high 2nd round pick, and that's probably fair. I don't think he will ever be Favre-esque, but I can tell you to me he is absolutely Drew Brees but taller....he is accurate, makes all the throws at all levels of the field, is productive, and is a pocket passer....questions about his ability to read an NFL Defense are valid, because right now that same concern is valid for ALL the QBs in the Draft. But taking credit away from him because he has great WRs, is not valid to me because he still has to make the throws and make the "right" throw as well. Here are his career stats: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/mason-rudolph-1.html Please look not just at the gaudy numbers from his Senior year, but watch his improvement from his starting year as a Sophmore until this year....they are PROGRESSIVE, and statistically significantly so in regards to Yards, Completion Percentage (Accuracy), TDs, low amount of INTs, and Rating. Not to mention he just won the Johnny Unitas Award beating out Baker Mayfield. Take what you will from it, but this kid will be a decent to great QB depending on the system and depending on how he is coached at the NFL level.

I've been on the Rudolph train, aka Rudy, since October. I'm a believer, and FWIW, so is Chris Traspasso. Rob Quinn really doesn't like him Cover 1 has a pretty balanced opinion on him. Although in all due respect to Kirby, I don't think his receivers elevated his game - I could argue it was a mutually symbiotic relationship. Rudolph places the ball well, has the best deep throw accuracy in the Draft, can fit it in tight windows with an NFL arm but not "elite", markedly improved his accuracy, TDs, and yards every year from starting as a Sophmore through this year as a Senior, while keeping his INTs the same...that kind of production improvement while maintaining minimal mistakes, is not the WRs elevating his game....IMHO. I've posted in countless threads Rudolph's numbers over his career and with his prototypical frame and pocket awareness, he's the guy....if he's there at 21 and the Bills don't get a guy like Cousins (which I'm not a fan of due to it being cost prohibitive for other FA pieces not because of his play), then the Bills should run to the podium and feel confident in his ability. Now with Daboll as Offensive Coordinator, this pick makes even more sense to me....but, I'm starting to suspect Rudy goes just outside the top 10....hopefully not, but come Draft Day, pressure is on and guys like the Cards are looking for their face of the franchise.

You could be right....but, I didn't take it that way at all. In fact, Mayock went on to do a nice job of indicating what both Jackson and Rudolph brought to the QB table and to me, gave Rudolph a bit of an edge in terms of traditional QB readiness but also said Jackson is the most talented dual threat QB he's ever seen and specifically mentioned Vick as a guy he recalls being incredible.

Thank you for sharing, this was a great listen and only validates my opinion about a few players, but Mayock continues to show why he's regarded as one of the best scouts and evaluators out there. To the QB question, it was interesting for Mayock to say "You like Cousins?" essentially unsolicited because Howard asked about Rudolph and Jackson. Now, I've gone on record saying I would prefer the Bills NOT to sign Cousins and I've gone on record saying basically it is just due to age (29) and the fact that such FA money precludes the Bills from going to get other much needed help, ala Offensive / Defensive line, a LB and a CB as well as another WR. But, I like Cousins and I've also gone on record saying as much including when he was Drafted I told a Redskins fan friend of mine that in two years Cousins would be the starter....so, I've been a Cousins supporter from the beginning. As for Drafting a QB, I also fully agree with Mayock, much to the chagrin of others (some on this board), that Mason Rudolph is a pocket passer, the most accurate QB in this year's Draft, has an NFL arm but not "elite" such as Josh Allen's, and is the most accurate deep ball passer in the Draft. I've also said that accuracy is a big issue for any college QB and that a QB can't add significant percentage points to their accuracy percentage, and that concerns me. Also, while if I'm going all the way up to #2 or #3 - which again I've gone on record hoping the Bills do not - it's for Rosen merely based on talent. I'm not a big Darnold lover and I think Allen is truly gifted, but he needs reconstruction on his mechanics and an ability to stay in a pocket to make the play. So, I feel better about my love for Rudolph at 21, but could stomach the idea of Cousins if I had to, so long as the Bills had great contingency plans to get the other players they need to build the team, not just the current Draft selection numbers, but additional picks and additional trades to get the players they need to be strong across the board. And I still hate the idea of trading up in a Draft that is rife with truly great QBs....THIS is the Draft year you stand pat and realize in almost any other Draft, the 6th Drafted QB could have very well been the #2 overall selection in other years.

I'm going to say this, and bow out: I'm disappointed in the tenor this thread has taken since it was designed to be a discussion about football and happy for a guy who is tied to Bills lore forever. Reich has been a good guy from what I know / read and he has certainly paid his dues, so good for him and Indy for creating a business relationship. Now, I doubt as many of you do as well, that Reich will be giving any team for any reason a discount in exchange for a Draft pick or a player. But with all that said, does it really need to devolve into name calling or insults? Does it really need to spin into some sort of personal diatribe about what someone said to another or what they post in their history? We are supposed to be grown-ups and we're supposed to act like it.... I strongly disagree with many opinions on this board, but I have tried to respect the fact that they are opinions and we are ALL entitled to them, that's what makes this place great. It's the Off-season and for several reasons one of the best and one of the most anxious in quite some time, but I don't mean to be the board police here (and I'm not...not a Mod, not an "owner", just a nobody who posts thoughts) but honestly folks, we need to respect each other more. This needs to be done....state your opinion and move on or read on, but personal attacks are way out of bounds especially when names like "retard" or "idiot" are thrown around. Let's be better than that...please. Thanks.

Obviously, I wouldn't want to see him go as I think this FO is terrific in the limited amount of time we've seen from them. But, great organizations experience high turnover because their people get recognized for the good work they do. The Bills will need to be that factory of talent if they want to continue the upward trajectory they seem to be on...they will need to constantly be grooming and training and promoting in order to stay in contention at all levels. This is a good early test for the FO, to see how they respond with some turnover. I like Beane a lot and I like McD, but this serve a good diagnostic as to how they process through the ever-changing landscape of the NFL.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more. Where in the Draft, except for the top 10 becomes basically irrelevant IF your FO can scout and assign value properly. Tre White was a late 1st round and *should* have won DROY...Dawkins was very good and probably a long term Offensive line solution somewhere on the line depending on Glenn and what the Bills decide to do... Milano will be a very good asset for the Bills LBs, and Zay had a rough year, but months ago I posted All-time great WRs and their Rookie years....it's really amazing, and yes they were in a different era, but to be considered literally in the top 10 of all time and have some of the paltry numbers they had, is eye opening. We also learned later that Zay played hurt all year and it does explain some of the alligator arm issues he had because he couldn't quite get the extension and comfort with his shoulder. So, let's assume it's a "wait and see" for Zay. Those picks came in various stages of the Draft, and given where this Draft is deep, they happen to be at positions of need for the Bills, IMO at least: QB, DT, LB, and while WR isn't great this year, it has some depth. Also, Offensive line is an area I think the Bills use a Day 2 pick on - and all of this is without any other trades, which I think will happen, i.e. Tyrod, Hughes, possibly Glenn, and don't shout me down, but Shady.

I agree with you on both of those points....I think Richardson adds a dimension to the Bills WR corps that is truly needed.

No, just....no. THIS is the year they get their franchise QB, one way or another. Now, if that means signing a Vet to be a bridge to a guy they get this year, presuming they sit still at 21 or take a guy in Round 2 or 3, fine...but I don't think they wait until Round 3 given Beane's comments and given how good this year's QB class is. I think they pick at 21 or trade up, JMO.... The other "holes" you speak of can be reasonably and adequately filled IF they get their QB because as we've seen with so many teams over the last 10 years. If the QB position is great, it elevates all other positions on Offense and the Defense's issues are minimized because the Offense is playing well....sort of the reverse how the Bills year was this year. Defense played well (with the exception of about 4 games) and Offense really struggled. The QB solidifies this team's place in contention for the next 12 years or more. Additionally, even if the Bills do trade up, they have so many picks BEFORE any other trading of players that between FA, the rest of the Draft, and UDFAs, they can fill the team. As I've said many times this year so far, I am probably wrong, but I really don't think Beane jumps up to get a guy when this year's QB class is just so deep. IMHO, and others are very opposed to this evaluation of Rudolph, but I think Rudolph in almost any other Draft class is a top 10 pick. He just happens to have guys like Rosen, Darnold, and Allen, ahead of him. I don't think Mayfield is that great for the NFL, but I've been wrong before so we'll see. As for Jackson, he will probably be a good QB at some point, but unfortunately for me I just can't get past the RGIII fiasco and think that while Jackson is certainly more humble from what I've read and seen and works really hard, I've seen that in a QB in Buffalo before too.....so, I would stay at 21 and take Rudolph or trade back and take a guy like White who I originally thought would last until the 3rd, but after the Senior Bowl and then Combine, it might creep into the 2nd.

No, I was pressed for time - and Traspasso is more than just “one guy”. Exceptionally knowledgeable with good insight. But I agree, one opinion will not and should not change someone’s mind. But, a number of others as you look through reports will highlight his “positive” attributes - all of which are NFL quality and caliber attributes for a QB - but question one thing: the system. And the larger issue here is that nearly all QBs transitioning from college to NFL have system issue related concerns. But, if you look at his career numbers and how they progressed - even after having really good production as a Sophmore - you see growth and an ability to improve in his most significant developmental years. Additionally he has great NFL quality vertical arm strength, is 6’5”, has really good accuracy percentage, and just won the Johnny Unitas award. FWIW, he also checks all of the Parcells’ criteria for a QB. I’ve posted numbers in the past but they’re easy to find if you’re really interested in developing a well-informed insight as a QB. Moreover, his video shows good throws all across the field, tight window throws, long bombs, good touch, and an ability to give the receivers a chance at YAC - which they do often, notably inflating his numbers as well.

Rudolph is a great prospect...if you don’t like him as a QB in NFL, please make sure you have the numbers and perspective to back it up. His production was off the charts for 3 years....and got better every....year. Then you need to keep reading. Traspasso has him as the #1 QB in the Draft. He’s a phenomenal talent with great potential.

While this is highly improbable and basically impossible wouldn’t that be a nice shaft in the rear to the Pats* to get Jimmy G., and then have him beat the pants off NE twice a year??!!! Talk about perfect karma!

I know he’s a FA after this season, but I think it’s impossible he would ever leave San Fran without a deal, regardless of how much money another team could offer him. And that’s not to say I think this “report” has any real substance behind it.

Because IMHO, this Draft is so QB deep at the top, it is unnecessary to go all the way up for Rosen. IMHO, Rudolph would do well in the NFL and you can probably get him at 21. FWIW, depends on what you subscribe to in terms of philosophy and we all know what is said about opinions, but Chris Traspasso has Rudolph rated as his #1 QB, when I pushed him to give an answer as to why, he said most NFL ready along with all the other prerequisites. Others, like Rob Quinn, really don't like Rudolph but, one thing you can't argue is his production, which I've posted several times and his improvement has been really solid all the while demonstrating prototypical NFL QB traits. To me, you trade ALL the way up when you're desperate for a QB and there's one or two that you believe can be a good to great NFL QB, the year Winston and Mariota came out were a year like that.....this is a year when FA money isn't that plentiful and there are a TON of holes / needs to fill. When you bump that up against their plethora of picks, PLUS probably one or two more presuming some player trades occur - it makes the most sense to get the QB that comes to you, which in this year's Draft is probably a pretty darn good one.

I know you're not alone in this line of thinking, but for me anything that involves next year's 1st round pick is an immediate disqualifier for me....

Are you saying he just told recruits he plans on staying or that he had been telling them and now this? Just wondering..... And who knows with the Pats, but it sounds a lot like 2018 is it for Belly and maybe Brady despite his desire to play from a wheelchair.