BigBuff423

Really depends on two things: 1. how much the Bills value either Rosen / Darnold / Allen, etc. as THE QB for the next 12-15 years 2. What is the asking price for the trade now? I would assume the asking price is pretty steep right now, because why wouldn't it be? The Giants have all the time in the world and leading up to the Draft there will be leaks and announcements about who Cleveland is taking at #1, so the Giants might as well as for the farm. Now, if it waits to Draft Day, which this is the most plausible scenario, then you probably get a bit of a discount because deadlines motivate people and being on the Clock can sway exactly what the Giants are asking for. Also, I don't think anything even remotely close to this gets done before a week or so before the Draft....too much can change and everything is fluid. If it's me: it's Rosen or nobody based on talent alone....however, if it's me, I wait at 21 and take Rudolph if he's there, and if not, I'll take White in the 3rd and I'm assuming at this point the Bills already have a Vet QB who can act as a bridge if he needs to, but let Vet, Peterman, and new QB duel it out and see who comes out on top.

First, no to Jackson....second, no to going out and getting a big named Vet QB, ala Cousins....third, IMHO, the Bills should use FA to address the areas that the Draft is the weakest, such as DE / CB / and at least 2 Offensive linemen - then the Bills should use their 21st pick on a QB, presuming Rudolph is still available, if not, then the best LB on their board as long as it's not too far of a stretch - DT is deep in this Draft. Then, try and trade out of one of their spots to gain some more picks. The remaining Draft should see two more DTs, at LEAST 2 LBs (one OLB / one ILB - after they've already signed one via FA - yes we're that desperate), one mid-round RB, one mid-round WR, and then BPA which should include a CB somewhere just for depth and development. If Rudolph isn't available at 21 then Mike White in the 3rd is the way to go, again IMHO. Having said allllllllll of that, and I'd prefer that scenario simply because I like Rudolph and White - IF the Bills were to believe it is all QB or nothing at all else matters, you do whatever in God's name you need to do to get to #2 to take Rosen simply because trading UP for ANYONE else, is pointless.

As usual good find bandit....I’m not in on Austin, but I’d be good with both Barron and Quinn.

I don't think i can find it with the board update, but I wish I could retrieve (and if someone knows, just tell me how) the discussion I was involved with on this board last year.....looking back on it, honestly, I feel people were always ready to stomp on anyone with a thought that is outside the box or not sparkling with an obvious "Can't miss!" take....I said it last year, Foles is a very capable QB, in the right system and on the right team. He is not Favre or some other HOFer who will thrive no matter where you put him, but placing him in the aforementioned parameters, he's a very good and certainly capable QB of making the Offense tick. JMO....

Just started a new thread, sorry if it should have gone here...but figured given the discussion surrounding Luck, and that there were other threads indicating he may NOT go to the Colts, it seemed news worthy enough to start it's own thread. If Mods disagree, or I've made some other error, please feel free to delete or merge ( you would anyways, just sayin' I'm cool with it...)

Josh McDaniels and Matt Patricia are now with different teams and Belichick and Brady are about to become the last remaining elements of the team's dynasty (well, the Refs too). Now, with the other thread about Luck and the possibility of trading him somewhere, as speculated possibly the Bills, you begin to wonder if these two Coordinators jumped off the ship right when they knew Bill was about to tie it down in port for the last time. Regardless of the opinion of the Pats, McDaniels has been viewed as a creative genius for the Offense, now we get to see how much was him, how much was Brady and Bill and what exactly his capabilities are absent one of (if not THE) the greatest QBs in NFL history. Go Bills! Edit: As an update, McDaniels has 3 of his coaches in place: Defensive Coordinator, Matt Eberflus, Offensive Line Coach Dave DeGuglielmo, and Defensive Line Coach, Mike Phair - per Albert Breer, Twitter.

Honestly, that is a leap of logic IMHO, when you presume McD is passive about Offense or that he doesn't value Offense as much as he does Defense. In this year, that same "mentality" got the Bills to the playoffs, ending the drought, and shooting that f-ing monkey on our backs. He coached, with the talent and team he had - yes, they traded Watkins, Dareus, Darby (congrats to him btw), and Ragland. But, the roster was not where he and Beane felt it needed to be, and they got the picks they coveted to re-build the roster they way they want. McD coached with the strength of the team: Defense and field position and running the ball - no one can argue that Shady wasn't the MVP of that Offense - but that does NOT mean, that's his Offensive philosophy. To recap: Rico was fired, Tyrod probably isn't on the team and if he is I doubt he's starting for 2018, Wood just "retired" and some of the WRs are probably not coming back and I don't think Tolbert is here either and there may be MORE Offensive side of the ball changes coming, ala Offensive Line Coach etc. Point being, give Beane and McD and their staff this Off season to get either their Rookie QB via Draft, bridge Vet QB, or their Vet long-term starter and get their guys on the roster and then we can start to see more of McD's Offensive philosophy. Pederson deserves a lot of credit for making some gutsy calls last night, but he did that because he could. Does anyone really think the Browns or this year's Colts could have been equally effective? I certainly don't....so kudos to Pederson for the calls that were bold and made all the difference in the game, but he made the calls because his team was good enough to execute.

You may be right, but my thought is the Skins would say, “We’ve got 3 teams all willing to trade for you and if you do, you can help us make the pick of your next destination. Furthermore, you’ll get the new contract up front. If you don’t, you sit and we don’t pay, up to you”. So, Cousins has leverage, but not to the point where he completely determines his own fate without some input from FO.

Honestly, I’m in the minority but I think this is smart. Because, while it’s possible every other team says No thanks, it’s much more proabable a team like the Jets offers them a second round pick and sign him long term, and if they don’t, SOMEONE will offer a 3rd, and that means Skins get something guaranteed without pinning hopes on Comp pick. To me, they see high demand with little supply and believe they use the market to their advantage.

No, they didn’t anticipate the success they had because they traded Watkins, Darby, Dareus and Ragland to gain picks for this year’s Draft. An obvious sign they were setting themselves up to make a big transition in 2018. And no, listen to Beane’s comments, the Bills are not in “win now” mode. Im ecstatic they won this year I really like McD as a coach, but it’s easy to see they achieved beyond their talent level (due to good coaching and team mentality). To me getting Luck is a sign they have adjusted their initial timeline - I’m just not convinced that’s accurate. Also, to those saying he’s 28, you’re right but will be 29 when season starts. And presuming a guy to play well past 35 is a large leap to me including the interest of desire of a player to do that - not saying he would or wouldn’t, but based on age it’s a true risk you give up a lot for a guy you’ll have for 4 years, when you have the Draft capital to get your franchise QB for the next 12-15 years .....at probably about the same cost.

The other issue with the Luck scenario is if you trade for him at this age, you’re trading to win now. I’m not convinced the Bills are built to win “now”...I think they’ve got 2 Off-seasons - the first being this year - to actually fully correct the ship. That means you’re spending 2 years of Luck’s worth and value getting the team ready. Just food for thought...

There's a running theme here.....hmmmm, what could it be???

One issue I see with any team, be it Bills or someone else, with waiting until Colts are on the clock - and I agree that it would make sense for the Colts to do just that - is regarding the ability to actually have Luck take the physical. If Colts and let's say, Bills, wait until #3 is on the clock, and they trade Luck, then the Bills would presumably lose let's say, #21, Glenn, and 2nd this year, and a 3rd next year (just for the sake or argument)....then, Luck would need to pass a physical and meet the medical criteria the Bills believe is acceptable. If that's the case, that can't be done on the night of the Draft, so then what? Do the Bills four days later say to Colts, nope, Luck isn't good enough to go, give us all the picks and Glenn back. Your medical staff fouled this one up...?? At that point, obviously it's too late....and if the argument is, Well, Colts doctors say he's good to go, gave the records to the Bills and then the Bills doctors reviewed those records provided by the Colts.......but there's just so much wrong with that and it would still need to be done on that evening....I would HOPE the Bills would demand to review Luck themselves, along with the records and to test his shoulder by throwing / evaluating his motion at least before actually consummating the trade, i.e. the standard "must pass a physical" clause, but again that can't be done on Draft night. So, the only way this would make sense for any team, including the Bills, is: 1. Trade is done before the Draft, even if it is two days before but Bills' doctors and trainers were able to look at, poke, prod and review his shoulder and motion plus the records and interview him directly to see what he says 2. Trade the night of, but everything would have to be for 2019 picks or Day 2 / 3 picks....I sincerely hope the Bills are NOT dumb enough to try and trade for a guy who might not ever throw again the same way he did a few years ago, which is the version of Luck you'd be trading for.....

I like this thread....it feels cathartic, which we could all use this time of year. I can't say I can year by year the way the OP did, but I can draw out some good and bad memories off the top of my head: I have to say, I didn't really pay close attention to the Draft until about 2004.....and immediately when Evans was selected first, I thought it was a wasted pick and when the Bills traded up for Losman, I nearly threw my drink at the t.v. I hated it then, and the feeling never left. I hated Whitner, LOVED Ngata....thought Brady Quinn was an entitled little snot who would wilt in the light of the NFL. But, I really like Cutler, ugh....hated Kaep, strong dislike for Tannehill coming out, wasn't a big Flacco supporter so obviously wrong in some respects with him. I did not like the Lynch pick, but loved his tenacious running style, I really liked Martavis Bryant coming out of college and when I watched the Combine, he stood out as a smooth runner with speed and good hands. I didn't like Benjamin, thought he was "too big" to be a good NFL WR (time will tell), loved Kamara and Fournette (duh).... Thought Big Ben would have a limited career, because I thought he held the ball too long and was too often looking for the big play - whammo, that one stung! I didn't like Rivers' throwing trajectory, thought his arm was too sideways and he would turn into a sub par QB that would have a good game or two to keep his career alive but slink into obscurity....yikes!! Woof, that was bad. I loved Eli and thought that was just a truly easy one....I did NOT like RGIII and I really liked Cousins coming out of Mich. State; in fact had a conversation with a friend of mine who is a Redskins fan and told him, in two years, Cousins will be your guy RGIII is that skinny tie trend, it doesn't last and eventually everyone knows it looks stupid. Hated Maybin pick, really liked the Aaron Williams and Cordy Glenn picks. Was clueless about Darby, didn't even see that coming. I liked Andy Dalton as a low-tier solid to good QB....loved Julio Jones - but then again who didn't? - and really didn't like Alshon Jeffrey (my bad) I said Jadaveon Clowney was overrated and I wouldn't have Drafted him #1 overall and in fact not in top 10, believed Khalil Mack should have been the #1 pick, loved Mike Evans and hated Ebron....I didn't like the Sammy Watkins pick, not because of him but the price to get him, and thought OBJ was just as good (again, wrong...he's so much better) Believed Matt Ryan was a stud, and that Jordy Nelson was overrated (damn!)....cursed at the t.v. when Hardy's name was announced for the Bills, they were the only team to even think he should play, let alone 2nd round....uggghhh. Also on the side of being wrong, I thought Vernon Gholston was going to be an animal for that Jets Defense....wrong! However, in the same Draft I really, really liked Ray Rice. There's so many more that just go racing through my mind, but that's a lot of ups and downs I can think of for now....thanks for this OP!

And with the recent “chatter”, could this be referring to Luck?

And I'm certainly not saying they can't or that Luck won't be his original self of football splendor. But what I am saying is that to me, IMHO, it is MORE of a risk to give up so much to get a guy you know for a fact is: 1. 29 years old 2. serious injury to throwing shoulder. When you can essentially take the same risk on a guy who you BELIEVE has similar potential but also know for a fact: 1. is 22 years old 2. is not injured and has unbelievable capabilities.

I just have a hard time getting overjoyed at the thought of a 29 year old (when the season starts) who is coming off a major injury when the Bills could probably use the same amount of Draft capital to get Rosen at 2....

It was essentially sarcasm....but only borderline because I definitely would make that trade....just don’t think Colts would, hahaa!

I’ll say this, Shady, Hughes, 21 and next year’s 2nd? That’s about as far as I’m willing to go

The problem is that, if you're taking a QB with a lower rating simply to save a few Draft slots, it will take at least 3 years (usually) to determine whether or not the QB has "it"....as you said there are rare special occasions when you know immediately and the results bare out over time. But normally, if a team drafts a QB in the 1st round, no matter how abysmal the first year, he gets a second, and if ANY improvement even in the smallest amount is seen, they usually get a 3rd...and rightfully so....but the point is if you're trading up for a QB, but you're NOT taking THE QB you think will be the premiere player, then you're wasting a pick and approximately 3 years of development to find out. That's the point...either go all in, or just go home.

Ok, but where did I say unproductive? It's not like they're selling Girl Scout cookies and whoever sells the most gets the badge. It's that there is a philosophy that no matter how supremely talented a single player is or might be, if he can't play as part of the larger team, then it is counter-productive, ala Watkins. I'm not for signing Tolbert or trading / cutting Tyrod, I'm all-in on both of those. And to say that you can't "buy that one", that's fine...but good teams are built with a team concept, not just individual stars, and when it becomes about the individual talent, the team suffers. I think, IMHO, that's the larger issue for Beane and the team. Dareus and Watkins to me were character moves, Darby and Ragland was a scheme move and to acquire Draft for this year's process in the rebuild.

You could also look at it this way: they made the playoffs, shot the monkey that was on their back, and now have some time "equity" and credit with the fans to use a year to finalize all the intended changes.

But by that reasoning, it would make more sense to go all the way up to #1 or #2 and get the guy you believe is the future who moves the needle of the franchise. Because otherwise, trading up and giving up Draft capital but not really getting the guy you want is how you continue make mistakes. Because if you trade up in the 1st to get "a guy" but not "the guy", you're still going to need to give him 3 full seasons to determine where he is in his development. So, invest or stay put, JMO

And if the Bills hold that kind of faith in him, they should do everything necessary to go get him. And I appreciate the information and links instead of just pounding the table, and I'll say my opinion has softened regarding Rosen, but if the Bills are frugal in FA, I don't see how you can do both. They still have to field an entire team and if they need to give up the farm to go get Rosen, I'm not sure where those players are coming from. Now, on the other hand, as I mentioned somewhere this morning in one of these threads, Belichick has done a hell of a job finding UDFAs and using them, and if you have guy like Tom Brady (or maybe Rosen for this discussion), you can afford to take risks on UDFAs in the belief that the elite QB will elevate everyone else around them.

To your overall question, I do in fact believe he dismantles the roster and moves as many pieces as he can, not just for Cap space but also for team identity. I think Beane and McD had an understanding of EXACTLY how they want this team built and it is not anywhere close to being where they want it and now this is his first chance to truly build an identity. For me, that only speaks even louder to the ability of McD and his staff - despite Dennison - and how they were able to break the curse. That's good coaching and yes, a little bit of luck.