NoSaint

I'm penciling Powell and Lewis as likely gone, but maybe. Was kind of penciling in the 53 and amazed how many talented guys were churned this offseason in those two groups (specifically as units that had legit talent and it being a passing league nonetheless) Basically the only people left in the passing game and secondary are Seymour, Tyrod, clay (contract made it impossible to move on) and some real deep depth guys that may or may not make the roster but they had no real incentive to decide on earlier in the offseason. Even the backup qbs are both flipped.

They've always carried a few star contracts- They let those guys walk and paid Gilmore. They also carry contracts for gronk, Brady etc... Unrelated but comes to mind as a curiosity I actually wonder if in recent NFL history any team has turned over its top 4 receivers, top 3 corners, and starting safeties in one offseason Kevon Seymour, colt Anderson, Charles Clay, nick o Leary and Brandon Tate are officially our only returning secondary players or pass catchers at this point probably?

What money was needed, currently? All we know is it was more than our gm would pay- but we've likewise seen that he's fallen on the thrifty end of the spectrum in calling value

It's a valid point-- but I think if you allowed some time with trainers/medical teams you could have given as much assurance as a couple preseason routes. I'm not going to assert this part as factual, but I think fair for fans to wonder. The other part is whether Whaley as gm pre-draft was part of the issue with not shopping these guys and working free agency differently.

So we are up to giving Sammy Andrew luck dollars if he stayed, and ignoring that the saints had $40+ mil in dead money. And it good that we got a top 15 pick for Sammy instead of settling for what the saints got for cooks And I am the one that is missing this completely. Yup- actually done this time. Not even sure why I let that one suck me back in.

We got a top 15 pick from the rams?!?

This post has many levels of not understanding the situations being discussed in it. I'll simply leave my chat with you as we wouldnt see eye to eye even if we agreed.

Cooks got a 1 and a 3 in this draft- part of me wonders if we could've done a bit better here for a total haul from Sammy and a good young corner on a rookie deal -- especially if willing to be decisive early in the offseason and maybe dabble in free agency a little to round out the positions instead of trading WR/cb for WR/cb in august

It doesn't matter what Sammy thinks he deserves but if we are going to follow what the market thinks he deserves. Beane pointing at resignability is an easy way to spin it as sammys fault and then just getting resources while they can. As Kirby points out though it's a wider and more nuanced conversation that doesn't absolve them from having made a decision to not pursue resigning him.

Yup. Not being even a little dramatic in your dislike for the guy

Ironically, he kind of just did but at a higher talent differential given up for the pick

Hell, ours is likely top 40ish at this point, may as well call it 4 first rounders if just making up fun things to say

Again, dramatic. Any qb could have used the resource. Even if not maximizing its potential 100%, simply prioritizing him in the scheme would've done wonders. I'd say even more than qb the Whaley-marronne disconnect the wider ownership-front office disconnect that created the front office--coach disconnect is where the talking point lands. We've seen what Sammy can do with Tyrod and it was special.

You are being very dramatic Every great player wants the ball when they have a highly favorable matchup. Highly successful teams tend to embrace that a great player in a favorable matchup is the number one goal of the offense.

It's august-- they decided on the option and had 8 months to build a relationship, so you can't fully absolve them from tensions if said tensions existed. That said, crossing fingers is what we have. Our 2017 squad is less talented today than yesterday. Maybe these guys stay healthy and Sammy would've been cursed by injury here. Maybe those picks end up being studs. But it's a whole lot of finger crossing. We will both be watching with said fingers crossed all year though.

We're there any significant and controversial trades that would warrant that type of comment?

You way that but a number of moves this offseason contradict it. How does TT, KW, etc... fit your defined philosophy? Or is the argument that they were as mediocre at being bad as they have been when trying to be good?

Even that reads as "the situation was already messed up so I guess this could be making the best of it"

Cooks was a 1 and 3 for cooks and a 4... and that was a toxic locker room situation for a less talented player and picks this year So it's hard to know if this was the best possible if we played cards better this offseason

If forced to define the philosophy of this offseason, how would you define the moves in a short statement or two? Culture over immediate competitiveness, with an eye towards 2018?

Short of just cutting these two, there aren't a ton of moves you could make today that drop the quality of our 53 more on paper That aside, I think it's reasonable to find it even more frustrating to think that we hurt our odds in 2017 without actually tossing the towel in... surely you can kind of see that argument even if you don't totally agree

We will see-- normally there are at least a few red flags. I don't think he's looking for teammates trashing him as much as the subtle comments, which you often see. Brandin cooks this offseason being a toxic locker room example of a top WR being traded. If he was an issue, SOMEONE will say something. That he went to a team with a WR who sat in meetings with him, ran position drills with him etc... seems like at least a minor endorsement of him behind the scenes

How likely did you think a 2017 playoff birth was yesterday? How likely tonight?

I'd be shocked if he took a pay cut to stay then we traded him in august.

Plus, isn't Gaines more expensive than Darby?