BADOLBILZ

Yes.........the Packers have to take him off the books..........relinquishing his rights to save immediate cap space.........before he can sign with another team. Kyle Orton retired from the Cowboys because they wouldn't give him a raise..........the Cowboys released him to save the space.........and he then signed for more money with Buffalo a couple months later. The Packers won't relinquish his rights though.........if he doesn't show up I assume that they will be credited back his salary cap space anyway.........but not until the end of this season.

I like Sean Payton as a HC..........but people forget that he is very capable of fielding 7-9 teams. And that was WITH Drew Brees. Winston has talent but he couldn't get a very talented Bucs team to the playoffs despite throwing for 5,000 yard with a very talented group of skill players.

There is not ONE way for football players or teams to become great. Many come from very rough circumstances and turn those adverse "non-nurturing" situations into the fuel for their greatness. The most significant player the Bills developed in the drought era was Jason Peters..........a future HOF'er and greatly respected teammate..........that dude didn't give his best at Arkansas..........got sabotaged by his college coaches in the draft process...........went undrafted to a terrible organization.........and still became an All Pro LT in almost no time after only being a TE in college. Your corporate/self-help strategy sounds great........works for some...........but you can get nurtured by a figurative pair of grass-fed DDD teets and it ain't gonna' keep you from being dominated on the field by a guy like Peters.

The OP made a good point/comparison. But you are getting carried away. The Patriots dominated the league for nearly 20 years using a very different approach............it'll take a lot of "nurturing" for anyone to accomplish half of what they've done. Most NFL dynasties were built on competition for jobs, motivation by any means necessary and cold blooded management decisions.

If the Saints aren't just a bad football team this season then Sean Payton deserves a lot of credit. That last tweet about the sleepers the Saints are "very high" on reminds me of the talk around the Bills during the tear down under Donahoe: "Yes, the Bills lost Ted Washington......but they are "very high" on young DT Leif Larson......they think he was a steal in the 6th round of that draft and a better fit in Gregg Williams system."

Yeah Wagner is an interesting case in point as it relates to the Bills and their defense...........because the Seahawks went from being both the youngest team in the NFL and the SB champion in the same season..........to very flawed in just a couple years once they paid their defensive standouts. As it so happened, aside from Sherman, the big names on that defense were off-ball LB and safeties........and once they paid those guys they couldn't afford to roll the DL like they once used to and the defense went from great to middling(and worse). They sacrificed on the lines on both sides of the ball to pay big names that, in hindsight, really needed to be supported by excellent edge/island and interior DL play to field a championship type defense. That doesn't necessarily mean a "top 5" statistical defense.........but one that can support a high powered offense by rushing the passer or being great in coverage. They put the frosting before the cake, IMO. If the Bills win one SB like the Seahawks did.......then we could probably happily accept 5-7 years of Josh Allen trying to carry a flawed team to the WC or divisional round like what's been going on in Seattle..........but I think the lesson to be learned from the Seahawks is not to do what they did. You shouldn't fall in love with off-ball LB and safeties and have them eating up huge amounts of cap space.

The disparity in quality of ILB/MLB players between the AFC and NFC is huge. I understand why casual observers don't understand this.............but this can happen at a devalued position and it can not be reflected by the play of the teams in those conferences. Because defenses aren't built from the MLB outward anymore. They are built around edge rushers and lock down CB's. If the Bills intend their D to be built around their MLB as so many Edmunds excuse makers claim........and Edmunds doesn't improve significantly.........they will continue to be a paper tiger defense.

Which, unfortunately would leave them very thin on the outside in the event of an injury. Lot's of slot types on the depth chart but X's and Z's.......not so much.

The only high profile player the Bills brought in was 34 year old Emmanuel Sanders (to replace a guy they cut who had put up 1,000+ yards in 2019). I like some of the other, cheaper "flyers" they took in free agency...........but they weren't aggressive in acquiring dynamic new talent and they drafted at the back end of each round. Everybody drafts, guy. You could argue that the Bucks were more aggressive in their approach............they swapped out two *good* guards and some first round picks for a *better* guard in Jru Holiday..........but he didn't play up to the level he had at NOLA.......and that didn't tip the scales for them this season. Injuries in BOTH conferences........A TON of them........really cleared their path to victory. The 2021 Bucks might have been the dumbest NBA team to ever win a title LOL. But the playoffs laid out beautifully for them and they ended up knocking off a 5th seed in the conference finals and played a first time playoff team in the league finals. It came together perfectly for them. If the Bills win a SB in a "down" season for the NFL.........it still counts. Ben Roethlisberger won his first SB in a poorly played game against a less than epic opponent. Peyton Manning got his first against Rex Grossman. It can happen. Hopefully the Bills have a bunch of breakout players this season and can change the narrative that they haven't improved the roster but on paper they have done little to nothing to bridge the gap with KC.

It was literally "Mo's" that I quoted........but I'm just bustin' your balls because Moulds was a pretty arrogant character who I don't see accepting a goofy nickname. As I've said........the big regret in his career is not showing up ready to play football as a rookie: 1996 draft/season first round WR yardage production Terry Glenn 1132 Eddie Kennison 924 Keyshawn Johnson 844 Marvin Harrison 836 Eric Moulds 279 Moulds had more career production than most of them but they had a window in 1996 and him being the only 1st round WR who didn't show up to play really screwed the Bills and helped cause the step back in 1997. And fwiw.........he ended up with 1500 less career yards than 1996 second rounder Muhsin Muhammad.........and Muhammad had some doozy QB'd seasons. The underrated guy from that class was Terry Glenn............the most talented of the bunch(including Harrison) but could not stay healthy. Even so he only ended up with about 1,000 career yards less than Moulds and was still dynamic and dominating when Moulds was physically pedering out in 2005. Moulds is probably the most overrated Bills player ever. Very good player for a 5-6 year period........but to act like he was second or third only to studs like Randy Moss and TO is fantasy. Hell, Joe Horn might have been better in his prime and the only reason he's still remembered is for the cell phone TD celebration and now because his son was just drafted.

1998 was Flutie and Johnson as his QB.......not Jim Kelly. Unfortunately about half of his career highlights came in 1998 alone..........and there were plenty of dimes in there.........the perception that the Bills QB situation was bad from 1998-2000 is wrong. It was bad in 1997 but he was useless at that point anyway. What was left of his "prime" was over in 2003 when he got injured........which had nothing to do with QB play.......after that he still got fed the ball around 10x per game but just couldn't do as much with it. Most of the yards that he left on the table were in his first two seasons when his head was up his ass.

Yep. Having an outstanding one on a cheap contract will not prevent you from winning a SB. That's about all it really tells you in the grand scheme though.

$19M is too much for ANY ILB/MLB in todays game. It's good to have a great one..........but you don't need one of those to win SB's. FWIW...........the people who downplay Tyrod Taylor for just being an "alternate" don't realize that the Pro Bowl that year was not an AFC/NFC vote........it was an ALL NFL team.. Tyrod was technically an alternate but he was actually one of only 2 AFC QB's selected...........6 of the 8 selected were NFC QB's. His season was very much like Edmunds' last year.........he made it because the conference didn't have a lot of good players at his position.

Actually, somewhere I have an Eric "Shogun" Moulds signed Bills mini-helmet...........I got it after his second season for $10 cheaper than a new, unsullied one. 😆 The best part of this thread was @Buffalo716 calling him "Mo"

The cap decrease was the same for all teams. The market adjusted for that and some relatively dynamic players went for deals that reflected that. The tight cap actually made it MUCH easier for Buffalo to retain players like Milano and Williams on long term deals that would have been well below market in a wide open $210M+ cap environment. Their approach was more about retention. Other teams did it differently. Tennessee robbed Peter to pay Paul..........they let a young star WR and TE depart.........and replaced them with an dynamic but injury recovering pass rusher and great veteran WR. Their approach was more "we know what we have isn't good enough". I think TN is probably a year too late for their window..........but their approach was obviously different than what the Bills did. We shall see if it works. From the Bills perspective..........the Chiefs have been to 3 straight AFCCG's and 2 straight SB's...........playing that late into the season year after year takes a toll on the physical health of most teams..........maybe it works out that the Bills catch a Milwaukee-Bucks-like break and teams like KC and Tampa break down due to age/injury and the Bills get a good draw in the playoffs and end up playing the 6th seed at home in the AFCCG or something like that and they reach their SB and win it that way.

The Bills seem to have taken the Milwaukee Bucks approach.........bring everyone back and hope that the teams that have seemingly significant matchup advantages suffer losses and that they themselves do not. I'm not sure Nelson moves the needle significantly........he ain't hanging with Tyreek Hill if it comes down to that. They really weren't positioned well to make a big leap personnel-wise. That's not an excuse....... they were cap strapped because McBeane made some suspect financial decisions in recent offseasons that left them exposed at this key point in their development......but it's a reason.

In preseason of 2015 the Bills at one time had all of their TOP 5 RB's injured. Anyone remember the Bills having to use Cierre Wood?? https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/injuries-cause-running-backs-to-fall-short-of-expectations/article_bce94731-3ef1-5d24-a47c-cad2dfd94417.html Luckily none of them were season-ending and they closed the season with a flourish (with McCoy on IR) to lead the NFL in rushing. Depth at RB can get depleted FAST.

Even if Edmunds were as good of a MLB as Milano is an OLB........paying him $19M per year would be bad for the team. The best situation long term for the Bills wouldn't be Edmunds breaking out as a playmaker in the middle..........it would be someone else stepping up for him.....the defense being BETTER........and then Edmunds coming back and being tried as a pass rusher. I know I've banged that drum since he was drafted..........but I wouldn't pay ANY MLB upwards of $20M per year. The positions where you need difference makers are the places where it's easier for individual talent to flourish and make game changing plays.........edge and island positions. Once you start paying guards and runnin' bax and inside LB's that kinda' money you are asking A LOT of your personnel department to keep those edge/island positions stocked when you are only *planning* to give them picks in the 20's and 30's in each round to fill them.

Moulds great year is undeniable. To me, it's still the best season a Bills WR has ever had. It was AMAZING to watch. But he surprised everyone when he came to camp in 1999 much bigger......noticeably thicker muscled in the legs..........and he never had the same speed or quickness as 1998 again. That was just DUMB. 1998 ended up being a one-off and much of what followed was hype based on something he never was again. I have heard the notion that he would have been better with better QB's..........but the hole in that theory is that Moulds really struggled to separate on most routes from around 2000 on. Would a marksman like Peyton Manning have wanted to throw contested jump-balls to Moulds all days like the Bills QB were inclined to do?? I don't think so. In fact, I'm pretty certain that wouldn't have flown with the HOF QB. Ultimately, Moulds got FED as the #1 WR for the Bills. Balls he might not have had come his way on a better team. His numbers may not even have been AS GOOD on a better team with a better QB etc.. What prevented Moulds from putting up more numbers wasn't QB play in Buffalo..........it was the gray stuff between his ears.

Again..........wouldn't have mattered who Eric Moulds QB was in his first two seasons......he wasn't committed.........and that ruined his chance of being any kind of "accumulator" type HOF player. The rest of that class of 1996 came out firing. The most talented of the group wasn't Moulds or even Harrison...........it was Terry Glenn. And the only talent Moulds had on Harrison was size............Harrison was a great route runner, great speed and quickness had great hands and his acrobatics gave him a huge catch radius despite his size. Far better player. The Bills not getting Marvin Harrison out of that draft was a disastrous bad break..........he was pretty much considered to be the consensus mock pick to the Bills leading up to it. Even with A QB in Jim Harbaugh with lower completion % and a much lower yards per attempt than Jim Kelly.......Marvin Harrison put up over 800 yards at over 13 ypr as a rookie. That was what they desperately needed. You can say Kelly was "done" in 1996 but that's not true.......he was inconsistent.......but a good deal of that inconsistency had to do with having teams squatting on his punchless WR corps.

It's been very easy for some apologists on here to call any critique of Edmunds "hate". The tune will change if it's more of the same ol' leading up to either the signing of a second contract or free agency. You can't have a non-playmaker earning $19M per year.😄

First of all.........my guess is Eric Moulds wouldn't have appreciated someone calling him "Mo"..........he nicknamed himself "Shogun"! As for what *could* have been.........the flip side is that his choke job on that college girl might have ended his career before it started in this era. The reality of his relationship with Jim Kelly is that he wasted his one year with him. Kelly was frustrated with his lack of effort/preparation........they desperately needed a deep threat for that offense. People forget that team was considered a favorite to represent the AFC in the SB that year. But Moulds was too busy evading child support and roughing up local college girls. The Bills team attorney was busier working for Moulds than Moulds was working for his pay in his first two seasons. He had a GREAT breakout season.........but after that he quickly and steadily dropped off. Worked harder than smart.........got stiff.......lost speed and quickness and QUICKLY fell out of any perceived rivalry with Owens and Moss. Perhaps you are just shooting from the hip but it's literally absurd to not mention Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison above Moulds as a talent. 😆

I think most of the Bills defensive success under McD has been heavily based on easy schedules and bad quarterbacks. Right now they probably have the most talent they've had on defense at any time under McD........and several key players poised for breakout seasons(we hope)....... so maybe they finally live up to the "top 5 defense" hype.