BADOLBILZ

Yep. The Bills were probably the Hilarius Toney off-side in KC from missing the playoffs entirely........and then the narrative with Brady is that he didn't put his superstar receiver in position to succeed.

Oy vey what ignorance. Diggs played 82% of the Bills offensive snaps in 2023. More than he played in 2022 (77%) and exact same % as 2021. Be better. Get out of your emotions.

FIFY My "agenda" here is to talk Bills football and be entertained. It's all entertainment. But that doesn't mean we have to be intellectually dishonest about the product that's put on the field. You aren't ever going to come here and find nothing but "like minds" that you seek. Everyone's experience and what they expect from the product are not going to be the same. So getting your nose bent during a nuanced discussion about a specific topic.......to the point where you are asking about agenda's.....that is showing how thin your skin is. So I guess I can then ask: What's your agenda as a fan? How much do you invest in this team? If it's less than me are you less of a fan? Or don't our differences matter then?😉

So every receiver who isn't drawing double teams is playing badly? Man, this "in aggregate" formula to success is complicated. I think @JerseyBills might be running a ponzi scheme here.

Why would you think 4K is meaningfully good for one of the top 2 QB's in the NFL? Mahomes has averaged 296 yards passing per game over his career..........that's an average of over 5,000 yards in a 17 game season. That's an objective worth talking about. Mahomes' 261 yards passing per game last year was well down from that........but still more than Josh Allen..........even though some people here act like the Chiefs passing game was a complete sh!t show and the Bills just need to get "quietly" better.

Yeah there is definitely truth to that, IMO. His T-Rex arms were never going to allow him to be a first round pick even if he ran like Worthy did. If he becomes a superstar WR he will be a one-of-one with arms that short. Literally, not figuratively. In that scenario, it's reasonable to not believe it til you see it.

Unfortunately, true. We hope there is a lot more production there. There might be. He's talented. But if he were a 5th rounder and had done that last year we wouldn't be predicting that he's the next Kelce. His first round pedigree is coloring a lot of the takes. There are lots of good TE's.........but the average fan is oblivious to most of them. If all he becomes is a good TE that's fine. You don't pick any receiving target at the end of round 1 nowadays and expect them to become a first team All Pro just because.

You don't even know what you are arguing about and never did. You hadn't followed the discussion.......took it way out of context and now are just unwilling to admit it. I countered the "idea" by posters who I've already cited that Kincaid and Shakir were the best receivers on the team at the end of last season with the dose of reality that.......regardless of your opinion on their rank.......their production wasn't really all that good. If you want to grade them on a curve then you need to take other things into account. Now contrast THAT, with Rashee Rice for the Chiefs. His numbers WERE big time. They do project out to WR1 numbers. No curve needed. This idea that it's "problem solved" for the Bills because they have their "top 2 receivers" back is a stretch.

So Beasley and Brown were mediocre before they joined the Bills? Incorrect. If you missed the "Allen can elevate mediocre WR's into good one's" then you've missed the discussion point altogether. Brown had been a 1,000 yard receiver before Allen and Beasley had been a consistent producer. Both were signed to free agent contracts that indicated that they were already good. They topped their career bests(once) with Allen by like 60 yards and 130 yards as I recall.

If you stretch the truth in both directions it makes the story seem bigger than it is.

I expect big things from Kincaid. But there has only been one Kelce. Not having a player who commands the coverage of CB1's like Sauce, Ramsey and Gonzalez in division allows those teams to be creative with where they put those guys. We saw a "great" split TE in Jimmy Graham be reduced to ineffective when he went to Seattle and defense's put a CB on him instead of him being able to roam against LB and S. Matchups are very important. Kincaid and Shakir may have been more "open" than Diggs.........but they weren't getting blanketed by a CB1 or even a CB2. And being that Kincaid and Shakir will be making most of their grabs in the same area of the field.......not having a difference maker on the boundary creates a matchup problem.

Diggs underperformed in the second half but wasn't "objectively bad". Was Kincaid "objectively bad" under Brady because he produced less than Diggs? Because that's the case. And you are predicting Kelce results for Kincaid........which are the greatest ever for a split TE. Just getting a little hyperbolic, I'd say.

The topic became nuanced.........which is the enemy of vaguery. Nowhere did anyone say Kincaid and Shakir weren't "the 2 most promising players we have as receiving threats". Certainly not me. So you are creating a straw man for no reason. You yourself know that they haven't done as much as they should have.

Just another vague rationalization. That hasn't proven to be the case in his career so far. Sherfield, Sharty, Lil' Dummy? Or in Mahomes' career either. MVS, Kadarius Toney, Skyy Moore.......has Mahomes elevated them? No.

I think I heard on WGR today that Pete LaCock hit a grand slam off of Bob Gibson for the last hit allowed in Gibson's career.

It's not confusion, as I explained, it's intentional vaguery. One of the problems with lumping together Kincaid and Shakir as prospects for massive progression is that they are at opposite ends of the target/productivity spectrum. Kincaid had a lot of targets and didn't do much with them. 9 yards per catch is borderline pathetic for a non-RB receiver. Whereas Shakir had few targets........but was extremely efficient with them. The same rationale doesn't work for both. We can presume that they will have higher bulk numbers but will they lead the Bills receiving weapons to a better season thru the air? Because they entered the offseason knowing they needed to get considerably better around Josh Allen. Somewhere along the line the apologists have lowered the bar to quietly better.

YOU said they were the Bills best receivers at the end of the season. It was an intentionally open-ended, vague statement. Maybe because it makes you feel better to have SOME kind of rationale. There have been lot's of those statements in this thread as people like the OP ambitiously rationalize the weapon situation the Bills organization has put Allen in. Perhaps not as obviously ridiculous as the "in aggregate" talk or the "defense's won't know who to cover" hilarity but suspect nonetheless.

Tell that to @hondo in seattle and @NeverOutNick.........who @Dr. Who was responding to and who I agreed with. Hondo said "The best receivers at the end of the season were Kincaid and Shakir and they're both still on the team." Nick gave that an "Amen!" Again.........too much is made of Shakir and Kincaid's play down the stretch..........Diggs and Davis production underwhelmed..........but Shakir and Kincaid didn't tear it up either. Even in that limited stretch their production didn't resemble what you'd want from a top option. And that was against lesser defender's than they figure to have to face this season. Comprende? Or do you still want to argue out of context for the sake of arguing with me? Because I'm done explaining the obvious. 50 and 40 yards per game ain't going to get it done for the top weapons.

My premise is based on what I originally responded to.........the false narrative that they were top 2 receivers by the end of last season. Try to keep up.

Oh as always you protest too much. Like I said.........the narrative that they were already the top 2 receivers is wrong. Neither was producing good "first option" bulk numbers......even over the limited sample size........and we haven't yet seen what they will do with the tougher matchups that guys like Diggs and Davis absorbed for the offense. Important to note.........the objective in Buffalo shouldn't be to get back to the level of offense that they were in 2023. A team that was one play......like Kadarius Toney lining up offside.....away from missing the playoffs altogether. A team where one of the OC's had to be fired and the other guided Josh Allen to passing lows he hadn't seen in 5 years. The objective should be to get back to the level of the 2020-2022 offense's and those had a WR1 option that was putting up over 1400 yards per season AND had depth of solid receiving production from guys like Beasley/Sanders/Davis/Knox/Brown.

And a bit too much is made about the play of Shakir and Kincaid down the stretch last season. The narrative is that they were the top receivers down the stretch........but produced just 52 and 41 yards per game paces.........which projects to just 882 and 697 yards in a 17 game season, respectively. Not surprisingly Allen's passing numbers in that stretch were his worst since at least 2019. That kinda' production ain't gonna' cut it.

Good guy off the field........one of the league's dirtiest on it. Allen's first career regular season game was against the Ravens and Judon took some cheap shots on Allen that day.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/can-t-miss-play-josh-allen-s-75-yard-td-bomb-pinpoints-gabriel-davis-in-stride The 75 yarder to Davis in the 13 seconds game is probably my favorite. The game looked like it might be getting away from them and to make THAT throw then was extraordinary.