starrymessenger

He's pretty interesting. Not a second rounder IMO but not a fifth/UDFA either. He is a third or early fourth round guy IMO. Gunslinger with a big arm, good mobility and good field vision. There are some things to like there.

Josh Allen is an unusual and fascinating case. I don't put too much emphasis on the conference he comes from, level of competition etc... When he is on he looks like a man amongst boys - regardless of the surrounding talent, be it good or bad. It's absolutely imperative that he go to the right team where he won't be press ganged into early service, where he can sit and learn behind a legit veteran starter and can benefit from the teachings of a good QB coach. Comparing him to a guy like EJ is a superficial, rudimentary and inaccurate analysis. He is 10x the prospect EJ was and a legitimate 1st round guy. A risky pick to be sure and if he winds up having to start behind a team like last year's Browns he will likely bust. This year's QB class is exceptional IMO. Now is the time to get one.

For Lamar to max out in terms of his very high ceiling, he needs to develop as a pocket passer and not be limited to a customized RPO. I don't know if he can get there but there is ample evidence to suggest that he is capable of improving on both the physical (purely mechanical in his case) as well as the mental requirements. So while nothing is guaranteed to me he is a really great prospect. Imagine if Tyrod was really good at throwing the football. Think QB would still be at top of our shopping list? Say "no". I see where some posters question the ability of young QBs to get better by improving their mechanics. That of course is total nonsense - "muscle memory" etc...lol. If that were the case you would have to discard some of this year's best prospects (excluding only Rosen and maybe Mayfield). You would also have to dump the great Aaron Rodgers because when his mechanics deteriorate his performance goes south - like that stretch of four or five games a couple years back that just about gutted the Packers season until he went back to work with his QB coach. I'm pretty sure Lamar is not the guy Beane has at the top of his board. My guess is he likes Darnold and Rosen a lot more (with some justification IMO). But if he can't get what he wants, Lamar Jackson could be what he needs.

I don't feel like I've seen enuf of him to come to any firm conclusions but I think the lack of sufficient velocity on some of Peterman's throws, including the playoff game ending pick, is the product of poor footwork through his drop, frontal alignment/stance in relation to the target, planting and pushing more off his front foot instead of properly transferring his weight, in other words sloppy mechanics. Add to that poor timing due to a lack of work with his receivers and the big step up in gamespeed and you wind up with a recipe for disaster, especially when the play call is a throw that is risky to begin with. I've seen tape of Josh Allen, maybe the strongest arm in the game at any level, get picked on out patterns for exactly the same reasons (when his mechanics are poor). With better lower body mechanics I'm pretty sure that the velocity of Peterman's throws would improve, and throwing mechanics is certainly something you can work on. Would it improve enuf for him to make the deep out? Like I said, I haven't seen enuf so idk. Not yet. Peterman is not Josh Rosen. He is actually very sloppy and unrefined as a passer. The deal is, can he improve? I guess we will find out.

Without top shelf NFL arm strength (which Nathan does not possess) such terrible lower body mechanics/full frontal alignment with the target will not get it done in terms of getting the ball there on time. That, and likely a (related) problem with the timing on his drop relative to the route Tompson is running (the receiver should not just be standing there waiting for bad things to happen), is the bigger villain than lack of arm strength as such on this particular play. He probably got away with that in college. Not happening in the pros, especially versus a very high end DB. Adapting to NFL game speed sometimes comes at a cost. Hopefully it's an investment rather than a sunk cost. If you can't get your footwork and timing down you don't even dream of trying that throw.

Next Marvin Harrison. Maybe. Landing the next Peyton (Rosen) would help.

Actually I think Rosen works the pocket pretty well, though maybe that's debatable. I wasn't talking about that. My point was that he is capable of operating outside the pocket (tho not like Lamar of course). He's not a big dumb statue like Flacco.

Well that's interesting because I thought Jewishness was only transmitted on the distaff side. So maybe he's really an agnostic gentile? I'm not an expert tho, but if that makes McCoach warm up to him a little more I'm all for it.

What I was trying to say was that as in government religious affiliation should be irrelevant as far as football is concerned (at least that's my opinion, as well as my understanding of the Constitution). So I think we are on the same page there. Sorry if that was not clear. I gather that Rosen is (at least at this stage in his life) agnostic and not an atheist. Be that as it may, a Jewish atheist would be a Jew who does not believe in God but who nevertheless otherwise identifies with and is in part a product of Jewish culture. Obviously I don't know the guy but my understanding is that Rosen was raised as a Jew and continues to identify with the community he grew up in, even though he is not religious.

Not sure I agree with this lack of mobility stuff I see all the time. He's pretty much a a traditional pocket passer of course but within that class of QB he is mobile enuf to execute outside the pocket occasionally and/or when required. In the land of world class athletes he maybe doesn't stand out, but the guy is a good athlete. If he couldn't move/react with decent short area quickness and composure he would not have been a promising tennis player.

Ok. Well actually that makes more sense to me personally. I mean who really knows for sure what all is out there?

If that is true then I would give higher marks to Mr. Beane than to McCoach. If faith is a "key attribute" because of a personal belief system then I think you are unnecessarily limiting an already small talent pool from which to choose a player. I think religious conviction has as important a place on the gridiron as it has (or should have) in government. If OTOH faith is a "key attribute" because it can be a source of motivation that can translate to the field well then fine. But again this can't be the whole story. A player (or person) can find all the motivation needed if he believes in himself even if he doesn't believe in God. Specifically regarding Rosen I suspect that his relationship and feelings relative to his community and religion are complicated and evolving (he's a young kid). I know many Jews of all stripes, orthodox and secular, including some extremely WASP Jews (if you perceive me). For every one of them being Jewish is more important than some of them can admit even to themselves. They can react to it indifferent ways, including denying it, but it is always there and perhaps more so than for most other people. It is probably a by product of culture and history. Anyway speaking for myself I'd love to have that Jewish atheist suit up as a Bill.

If memory serves they did more to limit his mobility and confine him to the pocket. In projecting him to the next level that's the red flag. I don't know that he survives if asked to execute from an NFL pocket, take snaps under centre etc...

I think the Bills have Sam and Rosen at the top of the board. They likely have a preference but would be overjoyed to land either one. To make their dream come true they need to secure the 2 spot. I think Beane will go all out to get there. Don't know if he makes it.

I would be (more than) fine with Allen but he would certainly not be my first choice from amongst the top five guys. In fact he would be near if not right at the end of the line. But really that is because I'm risk averse and my risk aversion probably stems from the fact that I've got a day job and I don't see/know enuf about these prospects to be confident that I can even trust my own opinion. Even if I did I'd be handicapped by a lack of tools/knowledge to properly evaluate. But I can certainly see why people like him (based on the eye test). As others have mentioned when he is on he is simply playing in a different dimension than the surrounding talent (even when the surrounding talent is good as at the Senior Bowl). Stands out like a sore thumb. He is also clearly capable of doing the things you want him to do. So you say he can't throw with accuracy? I've seen him make plenty of throws with pinpoint accuracy and excellent ball placement. Can't throw with touch when on the run? Sorry, I've seen him do that too. His footwork/throwing mechanics are bad? Nope, give him a clean pocket and a little time to set up and you would have to nitpick to take issue with them (as in "I'd like to see him roll his hips a little more as he follows thru on his delivery" lol). So he just needs to be more consistent - unlike a guy like EJ who could never really do the things he "couldn't do" and provided no evidence that he could. There are some important unanswered questions to be sure -pocket presence and reactions to,pressure, decision making etc...but if you are an astute pro talent evaluator and you see enuf to believe that he can get there then you've got to be all over this kid because if you are right is going to be a prodigy. Wherever he winds up I'm really intrigued to see how he turns out.

Yeah I get that and I completely agree re keeping that stuff in house. And I'm not second guessing management's decisions either. But for the good of all concerned (mostly the team) I'm hoping cool heads will prevail and therefore that the front office too is capable of showing some maturity. I don't see Boldin as a reasonable comparable. He had no history with the team. Ritchie has been a good teammate and lockerroom leader and a leader by example on the field as well. The team gave him a chance and he turned things around. I'd like to continue that narrative if at all possible. I love me some red-a$$ guard.

Ritchie went on a childish rant. It would have been better had he behaved as a mature grown up person and a professional. Having said that, there are a few things to take into consideration. Some speculate that one of those things is cocaine. My take is that arrogant pride and an over abundance of testosterone is the more likely suspect, part of the psychological make-up that makes him an outstanding guard. Often the personality is at least partly a reflection of the position played. And then there is the time-line. Ritchie agreed to a pay cut to help the team manage the cap. Then he sees the Bills back up the truck for Star, a guy who hasn't been very good for some years and has been to exactly zero pro bowls (Ritchie has been to 4). Maybe thats why he fired his agent. I hope this gets smoothed over. I love good guard play.

Let him out of his contract? - No! Trade him? - Sure, if you are getting more value than you are giving up. I'm hoping this all just blows over and he's good to go.

Ritchie is probably just p'd off. Star, who has underperformed for years gets a big contract from his friends. Ritchie, who is one of the very best run blockers in the game ( and has been for years) and also good (if not great) in pass pro, is asked to make concessions. Sure he's just a guard, but a blue chip prospect at the position who hasn't yet even proven he can play in the league is probably going top 10 in this year's draft. Shady knows how valuable a player he is, even at his age. Some guys are just physical freaks. Ritchie is one of those. The guy ran a 4.84 40 back in the days. Maybe Ritchie isn't quite as crazy as some would think. I hope to see him back.

I agree except I have a strong feeling that they like Darnold a lot more than Mayfield. With respect to Allen I too hope he goes to the right team (which is not the Bills). I say that because I like to see people succeed and speaking as a football fan Allen's talent is so prodigious that if he can develop he'd be awesome to see play.

Unless there is a whole lot of pre-draft headfaking and smokescreening going on (which is possible) I think his QB ranking is a bit of an outlier. I think Jackson could turn into an other wordly elite playmaker at the next level but I don't believe that his # 1 grade reflects the consensus of scout/GM opinion. I also doubt that a lot of teams have Mayfield ahead of Darnold, and that would make sense to me. If I'm guessing (can't do otherwise) I'd say Beane grades these guys as follows: Darnold Rosen Allen Mayfield Jackson For what its worth my pecking order is Rosen Jackson Darnold Mayfield Allen Depending on where in the first you get to draft them I'd be happy to have any of them, with Rosen, Jackson, Darnold top 10 (or lets say top 12 to personalize it more) Baker mid round and Josh Allen back end (though I'd be fine with # 22).

Not clear whether or when he will be ready to play in 2018. Bad foot injury requiring skin grafts. Altercation with a golf cart while on vacation.

Not sure I see him going through progressions. On plays that take a little longer to develop he is good at not telegraphing his intentions and he can look the secondary off but he likely knows where he is going pre snap and he throws to that spot.

True, but 2 is still out there and that's a better number than 3. I don't know if it gets done but for sure its a possibility.